Why Atheism Cannot Be Logically Supported

Prismatic wrote:

With all the fantasies they hear in stories and on TV, children have no trouble imagining God as an old man with a long white beard sitting on a throne watching everything that goes on in the world. This image becomes lodged in their intellects at a point where they are unable to question it and a predisposition toward religion is formed.

The Wise Old Man is supposed to be one of the great archetypal figures in human thought. I suppose that this archetype stays with every atheist and every believer, regardless. The important thing for the free man is to know it for an archetype and not to reify it as a ghost in the sky, or as some fixed set of rules.

My eldest son is 6. He can read and write reasonably well and often talks about God*. Perhaps I'll get him on here!

*This raises an interesting point. We live in the UK. Technically there is a legal requirement in this country for all schools to have a daily act of religious worship. In practice this law is considered archaic and widely ignored, but my son's infant school does, at least some times, do it, and (we have recently discovered) occasionally brings in a Church of England cleric to talk about God.

Personally, I haven't fully made up my mind how much I'm bothered by this (I'm a hand-wringing ditherer). But my partner is more decisive and has much stronger feelings and we have taken our son out of these school assemblies. We do not want him to be presented, at this early age, when he still tends to believe what people tell him, with various myths and stories as if they are undisputed facts. But this hasn't stopped him from talking about God a lot (mostly because he knows it winds up his mother.)

The comparison with the US, and the parts of the US constitution that are widely interpreted as prohibiting this kind of thing in publicly funded schools, is amusingly ironic considering the much much greater religious observance there.

Hello Sreve3007, By taking your son out of the assemblies it also takes him out of any discussion the children have on their own - childhood philosophy with each other - an important peer activity. Children learn both what they like and dislike about everything and everyone by seeing different sides of things and people - parents who teach religion also teach kids non religion by other behaviors and things they say. By letting your child attend such assemblies you open the door for him to tell you what has impressed him, and a chance for you to dispute it with him. If you deny your child access to information it will take him longer to discern truth from fiction. Misty

parents who teach religion also teach kids non religion by other behaviors and things they say

You can't teach a child to not believe in something he knows nothing about. No child has ever been born with a belief in Gods. You have to be indoctrinated into a belief in God.

parents who teach religion also teach kids non religion by other behaviors and things they say

You can't teach a child to not believe in something he knows nothing about. No child has ever been born with a belief in Gods. You have to be indoctrinated into a belief in God.

All children are indoctrinated, it is called the the learning process, or taking in information of life around us. Holidays and hearing peers talk are also teachers. No one is 100% religious or non religious, therefore, say or do things that contradict their choice of belief.

Has there been an experiment with children where from birth everything they hear, see, do, experience, and completely void of the subject of God, gods, to prove your point?

Hi Misty.

In Japanese there is no word that corresponds to the Western concept of God. the word "kami" is the closest but it refers to earthly entities or spirits. So this might be an indication that the God concept has to be taught instead of being innate.

Regards, John.

Hi Misty.

In Japanese there is no word that corresponds to the Western concept of God. the word "kami" is the closest but it refers to earthly entities or spirits. So this might be an indication that the God concept has to be taught instead of being innate.

Regards, John.

Thank you, Wooden Shoe, I did not know that. Is there a reference you could offer me so I can read about this subject?

Hi Misty.

In Japanese there is no word that corresponds to the Western concept of God. the word "kami" is the closest but it refers to earthly entities or spirits. So this might be an indication that the God concept has to be taught instead of being innate.

Regards, John.

How interesting is this Clogs? Must investigate, thanks xris

All children are indoctrinated, it is called the the learning process, or taking in information of life around us. Holidays and hearing peers talk are also teachers. No one is 100% religious or non religious, therefore, say or do things that contradict their choice of belief.

I knew nothing about religion until I started school. None of my family were religious or anti religion, it was just never mentioned. Once I started school (1950s) religion was stuffed into us every day & I never really recovered until I was in my 40s. Last year I worked in a faith school (CofE) during the school summer holidays, repairing windows. The main corridor had religious sayings & quotes from the bible painted across every wall along with religious posters in every classroom. It was the most blatant religious indoctrination I've ever seen.

All children are indoctrinated, it is called the the learning process, or taking in information of life around us. Holidays and hearing peers talk are also teachers. No one is 100% religious or non religious, therefore, say or do things that contradict their choice of belief.

I knew nothing about religion until I started school. None of my family were religious or anti religion, it was just never mentioned. Once I started school (1950s) religion was stuffed into us every day & I never really recovered until I was in my 40s. Last year I worked in a faith school (CofE) during the school summer holidays, repairing windows. The main corridor had religious sayings & quotes from the bible painted across every wall along with religious posters in every classroom. It was the most blatant religious indoctrination I've ever seen.

Hello Rederic,

May I ask where you grew up? Wasn't there stores or other kids in your neighborhood or older siblings that knew about God or gods? Was there a particular religion at your school? I grew up in Maryland. There were religious holidays and a prayer in the mornings, but not a deliberate, intrusive religious overtone in school. There was religion (bible) in school, at home, and the neighborhood kids knew - just normal to me. I think it is very interesting to hear how others grew up and experienced when and what they learned. In my above post I was saying that everything one learns is an indoctrination. My worst memory was wearing dog tags, having air raid practice hiding under our desks or going to the dank, dark basement. The threat of war was a much scarier indoctrination than religion. Thank you for your post. Misty

Hi Misty.

I just did a search on "The God concept in Japan" and it came up with many choices. By the way I use Google for all my searches. I am sure you will also find sources if you put in " Kami God Japan"

I had the good fortune of spending a month in Japan some years ago and that is where I learned that the almighty God idea is foreign to them. Their beliefs are mainly philosophical and not religious in the western sense.

Regards, John.

Wooden Shoe,

Thank you for getting back to me. I will research it.

Misty

I believe that a six year old and logic are incompatible.

There's nothing to believe. Six year old and logic are incompatible.

Ages back, when we were still hominids, probably all of us were "six years olds".

This whole forum with its various sections of art and religion is the by-product of homo sapiens development. The world was the same centuries ago and even millions years ago, before hominids appeared. Nothing really happens, only we change.

There's not much philosophical logic and even common-man approach required to understand this simple fact.

Ah, the certitude of the young!

I believe that a six year old and logic are incompatible.

There's nothing to believe. Six year old and logic are incompatible.[quote]

Just like adults, children have different aptitudes of logic and intelligence. My 5 yr old grandson is a talker, asks lots of questions and gives his opinion. While confined in the car on a long drive he began his usual questioning and talking - non stop - many miles later his mother, exasperated, snapped at him to stop talking so much, his quick retort was -- Did you guys even want children? Children are very capable of logic.

@WS

You've just added a 39-th method to Schopenhauer's art of being right. Somebody is wrong, because he is young.

I hope that one day philosophy forums will be banned by the NWO government consisting of neuroscientists and we will start the whole fun again, but in underground.

Stay happy.