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Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
I wasn't setting you up. I stated plainly in my last post what I was expecting: "I asked because you quoted Jesus' words from the Bible, so I figured you would also have an answer from the Bible."
Our words paint pictures for others that reveal what is in our hearts. Your words paint a dark picture of people who make use of the Bible. For example, you referred to the "religious right" as self-righteous religionists who use the Bible to push an ignorant, prejudiced, intolerant and bigoted point of view. All those words came from you, and let us know something of what is happening inside you.
Here is what I can gather about you from your words:
You have a problem with some people;
Those people use the Bible;
Therefore, everyone who uses the Bible is like those people.
In contrast to your darkness, I gave you something different. Something that I believe God showed me from the Bible. Do you think what he showed me is "ignorant, prejudiced, intolerant and bigoted"?
enegue wrote:
Our words paint pictures for others that reveal what is in our hearts. Your words paint a dark picture of people who make use of the Bible. For example, you referred to the "religious right" as self-righteous religionists who use the Bible to push an ignorant, prejudiced, intolerant and bigoted point of view. All those words came from you, and let us know something of what is happening inside you.
Cheers,
enegue
Just because he said those words doesn't mean anything about him. Words don't paint pictures of people's hearts, words are just the paint and the listener is the brush.
"What does the Bible suggest we do to show our love for God? What does the Bible suggest we do to love our neighbour as ourselves?"
And then I replied with an intervening post (look it up if you want to). And then you said this in your next post; which subsequently continues at some length: "I didn't ask the question because I didn't have an answer, I asked because you quoted Jesus' words from the Bible, so I figured you would also have an answer from the Bible."
Based on the subsequent comments in this post; which continues at some length; and which I sincerely congratulated you for; I inferred that you have already read the Bible and have indeed worked it out for yourself: You already knew your answer and were "baiting" me (which I have noticed that you are quite good at) so, why did you ask if you really did not want to know?
If that is not a setup, then what is?
With respect: Maybe you are afraid of the/this truth? In which case that says a great deal more about you than it does about me.
So, where does that leave us? I won't reply to the rest of your post just now. I am interested in seeing how you handle this information, first.
"What does the Bible suggest we do to show our love for God? What does the Bible suggest we do to love our neighbour as ourselves?"
And then I replied with an intervening post (look it up if you want to). And then you said this in your next post; which subsequently continues at some length: "I didn't ask the question because I didn't have an answer, I asked because you quoted Jesus' words from the Bible, so I figured you would also have an answer from the Bible."
Based on the subsequent comments in this post; which continues at some length; and which I sincerely congratulated you for; I inferred that you have already read the Bible and have indeed worked it out for yourself: You already knew your answer and were "baiting" me (which I have noticed that you are quite good at) so, why did you ask if you really did not want to know?
If that is not a setup, then what is?
With respect: Maybe you are afraid of the/this truth? In which case that says a great deal more about you than it does about me.
So, where does that leave us? I won't reply to the rest of your post just now. I am interested in seeing how you handle this information, first.
Best wishes and best regards,
Brian Leslie Engler
Of course I already had an answer. I didn't ask the question for me, but to challenge you. If I give you my answer, where is the challenge? You won't have to make any effort. The things we strive for are the things we treasure.
Did you treasure my answer when you got it? Not enough to esteem it above the feeling that you were ambushed. Did you go into another thread and say, "Gee, enegue has certainly got a handle on the ten commandments?" No, you went into another thread seething about feeling that you were ambushed. You treasured your resentment above all else.
In regard to my challenge, should I have challenged you? Of course I should. You were making harsh statements about people who use the Bible and you needed to be challenged in regard to your use of it. Who am I do do this? I am a loving brother concerned about your discontent.
Are you two debating whether or not people are interpreting the Bible correctly?
I don't think that was the original question of this thread.
I also don't think that the intended meaning of the words in the Bible matter at all. What matters is what an individual uses them for. People will always find an excuse for their hurtful behavior, it doesn't have to be a what a book says. I don't think that a world without religion means a better or worse world.
So, if someone reads the two commandments of Jesus and thinks that is all there is to it, then they are ignorant. But they would've been anyway had the commandments not been brought to their attention.
I don't think religion is inherently bad. Perhaps the Bible was poorly written for what it was trying to achieve.
Plenty of philosophies have been misinterpreted. They were just never meant to do anything other than provoke thought, so they inspire less hurtful behavior. I am talking about non-religious philosophies here.
I don't think there is a difference between religion and philosophy other than perhaps the fervor with which they are followed.
Re: I wasn't setting you up. I stated plainly in my last post what I was expecting: "I asked because you quoted Jesus' words from the Bible, so I figured you would also have an answer from the Bible." (BE: I think that quite possibly you figured wrong; that you were seriously misinformed. Since when do I or anybody else here need to meet your expectations?)
Re: Of course I already had an answer. I didn't ask the question for me, but to challenge you. (BE: Sure, by setting me up . . . and I think I handled the challenge quite well, don't you?) If I give you my answer, where is the challenge? You won't have to make any effort. The things we strive for are the things we treasure. (BE: Agreed . . .)
Did you treasure my answer when you got it? (BE: No, Why should I? I did not need to work for it like you did; it was your answer, after all; but I did congratulate you for it . . .) Not enough to esteem it above the feeling that you were ambushed. (BE: I esteemed it, (by congratulating you) just not in a way you could appreciate . . . .) Did you go into another thread and say, "Gee, enegue has certainly got a handle on the ten commandments?" (BE: And when is the last time you ever did something like that? I'm just wondering . . . ) No, you went into another thread seething (BE: seething? Now that's an interesting characterization . . .) about feeling that you were ambushed. You treasured your resentment above all else. (BE: Not particularly, but it is interesting that you would think so . . . )
In regard to my challenge, should I have challenged you? Of course I should. (BE: Well you also took my statements completely out of context; and by the way, what is that word "should" about? It seems to me that you are indeed "shoulding" on me from great heights here . . .) You were making harsh statements about people who use the Bible and you needed to be challenged in regard to your use of it. (BE: What I said was, "First of all, the Bible says many things and can be used to justify any point of view regardless of how ignorant, prejudiced, intolerant, and bigoted that point of view may be. Just take a look around at the self-righteous religionists; or the "religious right" if you prefer.
Fundamental orthodox religion believes in an anthropomorphic "God"; a "God" in human form. Based on scientific evidence that is just so ignorant it defies further description." And you take exception to this? You challenge this? Now, that is interesting.)
Who am I do do this? I am a loving brother concerned about your discontent. (BE: I really wished that I believed that, but you know; somehow I don't . . . I am already quite content: This may surprise you, but I have everthing I want, and more than I need)
Re: "3. by not profaning his name or using his name to exercise dominion over others". (BE: It seems to me that in a very no so subtle form you do indeed attempt to exercise dominion over others – being me, here - with your patronizing moral superiority. You love it; especially in these conversations. That is why I don't trust you.
Re: "1. You have a problem with some people; (BE: Yes, I do; ummm, don't you?)
2. Those people use the Bible (BE: I don't know if they do or not. As I don't particularly like hanging around with "Bible thumpers"; probably most of them don't)
3. Therefore everybody who uses the Bible is like those people (BE: Not necessarily: I have known some real a**holes who have never opened a Bible . . .)
So, on this basis it seems pretty much pointless for to me to continue. Unless you make a comment that I appreciate and want to reply to; the field of battle is yours . . .
Youngfool wrote:So, on this basis it seems pretty much pointless for to me to continue.
Agreed!
Youngfool wrote:Unless you make a comment that I appreciate and want to reply to; the field of battle is yours . . .
In any event, best wishes and best regards,
I'm sorry you still feel I set you up, because I have done my best to try to explain the reason behind my question. I have no desire to pursue a battle with you.
Right on Nubbles: And good for you. I have made my points to my satisfaction, and I am subsequently retiring from the field of battle. "Enegue": flail away all you like: "gotcha".