Why did God create the world and man?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
User avatar
Wesgtr
New Trial Member
Posts: 19
Joined: December 28th, 2017, 3:41 pm

Re: Why did God create the world and man?

Post by Wesgtr »

Jklint wrote: December 30th, 2017, 1:44 am
LuckyR wrote: December 29th, 2017, 9:31 pm But who is to say that gods created anything? Perhaps gods are just habitants of the universe (like us).

There are plenty of religions where the universe wasn't created by gods, the gods just live in the universe.
Hail the untempled sinuous sublime
God unrendered which renders god divine!
Was that from Essay on Man by Alexander Pope? You must tell me, lest I peruse the entire text.
User avatar
Wesgtr
New Trial Member
Posts: 19
Joined: December 28th, 2017, 3:41 pm

Re: Why did God create the world and man?

Post by Wesgtr »

Greta wrote: December 28th, 2017, 5:52 pm
Wesgtr wrote: December 28th, 2017, 5:11 pmGreta,

I realize now that you are not a creationist. That is fine. However, what convinces you that "powerful natural processes" makes humanity, I presume, "collateral damage?" And, can I ask one more: why do you think that your version of the world's beginning is better than a creationists?
I assume that you are not referring to the obviously mythological anthropomorphic deity that people refer to as "He" but a fundamental intelligence posited to exist within the fabric of reality by mystics, and more properly referred to as "it"; some models being pantheistic and others panentheistic.

You ask why I think the way I do. Why do you think the way you do? :) As far as I can tell, we are each small, somewhat aware parts of the Earth with a particular perspective shaped by temperament and life experience.

Was there always intelligence in the universe or is reality gradually becoming more aware and intelligent? I don't know the answer to that question, one that's been disagreed upon through history by many sharper minds than ours. From our human perspective it looks like awareness evolves, but if we do reside within a larger, exponentially more sophisticated mentality, how could we possibly know?

Is this is the first universe or the trillionth? Maybe in previous universes some beings kept evolving and advancing, progressively solving the ever greater perils thrown at them by the cosmos, even surviving the heat death of their universe. There mere presence of such beings would influence any subsequent big bang, since they would necessarily change the initial state of what would be a chaotic system. Aka "God".

Given that this is a philosophy forum rather than a religious forum, my doubt leaves me no choice but stay on the fence and lean towards the view that's least reliant on assumptions, and hope for more information to help clarify the situation.
I guess I will think you an agnostic. I take this from your fourth paragraph where you said, "if we do reside within a larger, exponentially more sophisticated mentality, how could we possibly know?" I think we can know. There are quite a few who thought so also. They would understand God through philosophy and theology. If the extant visions of a Julian Norwich are no less important than the E=mc2 or the thoughts of Richard Dawkins, then why do we not listen to theology? Do we listen? Sure we can. And, why shouldn't we? Visions of a Julian of Norwich may be equally as true as a Richard Dawkins atheistic claims. Perhaps she is more true. And, she is not highly rational. I agree with those who say there is more than meets the eye, more than meets the measure of a scientific instrument. And, my IQ is pretty high. I scored a 132. That's the 98th percentile.
Jklint
Posts: 1719
Joined: February 23rd, 2012, 3:06 am

Re: Why did God create the world and man?

Post by Jklint »

Wesgtr wrote: December 30th, 2017, 6:01 pm
Jklint wrote: December 30th, 2017, 1:44 am

Hail the untempled sinuous sublime
God unrendered which renders god divine!
Was that from Essay on Man by Alexander Pope? You must tell me, lest I peruse the entire text.
No! Pope believed in God but his Essay on Man is definitely worth the time and effort. There's a good deal of philosophy in it too!

I just noticed a slight misquote. It should read:

Hail the untempled sinuous sublime
God unrendered which renders gods divine!


With everyone here only writing to each other, I'm surprised anyone noticed. At least there's someone here with a sixth sense as to kind of meaning poetry can convey.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14995
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Why did God create the world and man?

Post by Sy Borg »

Wesgtr wrote: December 30th, 2017, 6:12 pmI guess I will think you an agnostic. I take this from your fourth paragraph where you said, "if we do reside within a larger, exponentially more sophisticated mentality, how could we possibly know?"

I think we can know. There are quite a few who thought so also. They would understand God through philosophy and theology.
They would claim to understand God through philosophy and theology, and without feeling the need to provide proofs despite the well-documented capacity for humans to create false memories and for their perceptions to be shaped by their schemas. That is simply guesswork presented as truth.

As a matter of interest, your IQ is the same as my late sister's. She was a Jehovah's Witness and apparently believed in their patent nonsense of young Earth creationism that was simply based on the dodgy arithmetic of Archbishop James Ussher in the mid 1600s. Intelligent people make mistakes too.
User avatar
Wesgtr
New Trial Member
Posts: 19
Joined: December 28th, 2017, 3:41 pm

Re: Why did God create the world and man?

Post by Wesgtr »

Well, firstly, I agree with you that intelligent people make mistakes. Less intelligent people do, too. And, secondly, I was in no way suggesting any high IQ requires belief in God or freedom from mistakes. I merely wanted to suggested that the reasons for what I suggested--more than evidence--in the world was not because I am less intelligent than those who say we need evidence.

Proofs are good, but how far can we go with reason and rationality to prove anything? Is it even possible to prove the unseen? I think many have made proofs about God, and I am, of course, referring to the Judeo-Christian God. But, how good are these proofs? I don't know. I haven't studied them enough. But, I intend to do so. I think it comes down to faith. But, I think it is Aquinas and Anselm make good arguments for the existence of God.

I would disagree with anyone who believes that faith and belief are a mistake. Conversely, they are what sets one free when placed in the right source. That's been my experience.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14995
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Why did God create the world and man?

Post by Sy Borg »

Wesgtr wrote: January 3rd, 2018, 7:34 pmProofs are good, but how far can we go with reason and rationality to prove anything? Is it even possible to prove the unseen? I think many have made proofs about God, and I am, of course, referring to the Judeo-Christian God. But, how good are these proofs? I don't know. I haven't studied them enough. But, I intend to do so. I think it comes down to faith. But, I think it is Aquinas and Anselm make good arguments for the existence of God.
How can can we go with guesswork and intuition? Reason and rationality have gone much further.

Why should anyone believe without proofs? There's no point unless you are using belief as a "life hack" to extract greater performance from yourself. Otherwise we might as well see what new ideas crop up in coming years.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Religion, Theism and Mythology”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021