Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

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Ser10Rec1pr0
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Ser10Rec1pr0 »

Burning ghost wrote:... I do think so called "free trade" needs to be taken away from the hands of companies and put back into the hands of the government. This is also something that was a good reason for the UK exiting the EU. I worry about businessmen being put into positions where they make decisions that effect people in different countries, ...
My understanding is that the whole EU scheme was promoted by Am. businessmen, to make it easier for them to do biz in Europe, which after the collapse of the Soviet bloc included E. European nations. We now continue to fund European armed forces, including those of E. European nations, in the bellicose fantasy that Russia is still eager to annex E. Europe again. We just sent U.S. troops into Poland.

Meanwhile, the EU is a complete disaster; basically one fat Germany-funded welfare state, which is why M.E. refugees are so eager to go there. Russia can pretend to have imperialist dreams, which I suspect includes all these hacking accusations, but Russia has more than its share of economic & political travails, not the least of which is the rumblings of the caliphate types within its borders: one-fourth of ISIS recruits come from Russia; and we may recall that all those former USSR states were in the main Muslim and all forms of religious practice was suppressed during the Soviet years.

There's an old joke about when ret. U.S. Army Gen. Alexander Haig began doing business in the old USSR: he said young couples were exiting their Mercedes Benzes, wearing Rolex watches, to go drink apple daiquiris; it looked just like Beverly Hills, except there were no communists.
Gertie
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Gertie »

One of the few potential advantages of Britain leaving the EU is we're no longer tied in to the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, which I assume is what Burning Ghost was referring to. The EU is still a rich country trading bloc, even after expanding to include poorer eastern European countries, but it never went full neoliberal, which America wants to impose via TTIP. Unfortunately for Britain we're leaving under the control of the Conservatives, with full licence to lose all the old bullwarks against full blown neoliberalism and gain all the worst bits of it independently.
Steve3007
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Steve3007 »

The OP of this thread was about finding good things to say about President Trump. I've thought of another one. He's recently been phoning various political leaders from around the world as new presidents do. Apparently, when he got to the Australian Prime Minister they had a big blazing row about immigrants and he hung up. He said that of all his calls to other leaders, that was the "worse by far". I found this very funny, when compared to the standard bland diplomatic language that leaders tend to use.

If he thinks something, he just says it. No diplomatic pussyfooting around. Perhaps there's something to be said for that approach?
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Atreyu
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Atreyu »

Steve3007 wrote:The OP of this thread was about finding good things to say about President Trump. I've thought of another one. He's recently been phoning various political leaders from around the world as new presidents do. Apparently, when he got to the Australian Prime Minister they had a big blazing row about immigrants and he hung up. He said that of all his calls to other leaders, that was the "worse by far". I found this very funny, when compared to the standard bland diplomatic language that leaders tend to use.

If he thinks something, he just says it. No diplomatic pussyfooting around. Perhaps there's something to be said for that approach?
Indeed there is. Trump is probably one of the most "of the people" Presidents we've ever had, alongside the likes of Teddy Roosevelt. Of course, it's not at all certain that such a person would actually make a good President....
Fooloso4
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Fooloso4 »

Atreyu:
Trump is probably one of the most "of the people" Presidents we've ever had …
He is not of the people unless the people are billionaires with international business connections and significant debt to other nations and at home that will benefit from his policies. He is not of the people unless the people are narcissistic, petty, vindictive, pathological liars, with fragile egos who sit on gold thrones and tweet at 4 AM.
… alongside the likes of Teddy Roosevelt.
He is almost the opposite of Roosevelt in at least three important ways:

Roosevelt worked to protect the environment and our nation’s natural resources and wilderness. Trump thinks global warming is a hoax and is working to reduce environmental regulations.

Roosevelt worked with the press to shed light on corruption. Trump’s administration calls the press the “opposition party” and complains that it does not support alternative facts.

Roosevelt severed the connection between business and politics and limited the power of big business. Trump and his cohorts are big business and he his putting them in charge of the nation.
Dolphin42
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Dolphin42 »

Here's a bit of light relief. Trump apparently phoned his national security adviser at 3 am to ask whether it's a strong or weak dollar that's supposed to be good for the economy, because he couldn't remember:

huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-administ ... 61313a1fbb

But perhaps the incompetent buffoon thing is just an act, with the purpose of keeping potential enemies on their toes? Like Richard Nixon's "madman" policy? If people think you're a volatile and emotionally insecure idiot who possesses immense military and economic destructive power, they'll be nervous, and that gives you an advantage over them in the art of the deals you make with them, doesn't it?

So clever, willy old Trumpy, yes? Have I found something else that's good about him?
Steve3007
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Steve3007 »

Trump in a speech today: "I don’t want to call a court biased, so I won’t call it biased. Courts seem to be so political..."

You could almost see the wheels slowly turning during the pause. Clearly his people have explained to him that he's not supposed to attack the courts.

If it is all an act designed to unsettle his enemies then he is an extremely dedicated method actor who lives it 24/7.
Simply Wee
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Simply Wee »

I think the good is he's change
the bad is I'm not sure and hopefully he's not either
the ugly is democracy, it only works if you believe in it, whether or not you agree with it

Augustus said he was giving power back to the senate and the people of Rome, of course he didn't but his dictatorship at that time was a good thing for Rome.
Trump is no Augustus. Good thing for America, bad thing for Trump....I guess.
"Men are not disturbed by things, but the view they take of things".
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MidiChlorian
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by MidiChlorian »

Dolphin42 wrote:But perhaps the incompetent buffoon thing is just an act, with the purpose of keeping potential enemies on their toes? Like Richard Nixon's "madman" policy? If people think you're a volatile and emotionally insecure idiot who possesses immense military and economic destructive power, they'll be nervous, and that gives you an advantage over them in the art of the deals you make with them, doesn't it?
What you say might be true, on a TV show, but either you know who your enemies are or you do not, and why would anyone attempt to threaten a potential adversary or friend into thinking you are unpredictable? A potential enemy is anyone who is not your friend but based on this type of reasoning a friend can also become a potential enemy if you make them think that you only care about being number one? It is one thing to say that you will make America strong again, where being on the top, means you have to watch your back with everyone, even your former allies, will not trust you to have their backs because you only care about yourself. So, when push comes to shove you may find yourself out in front with no allies to support your behind. Remember that China has over 200,000,000 troops in uniform, more than all of the others combined, so why piss them off?
The Reality of knowing what Wisdom is, is in the Experiencing of the Philosophy of using Knowledge.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Sy Borg »

It's interesting how so many look forward to the "change" that The Don will bring to institutions that he notes are not serving people well.
If he breaks the system, has it been discussed what he intends to replace the systems of government and industry with?
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Aristocles
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Aristocles »

Gabask wrote:Lol the lack of comments on this post is evidence of Trump's good.
1. Trump ironically provides the investment of like minded people back into the government (while decreasing the government). Ironically again, the more rigid rule followers of the right were most disenchanted with previous administration's lack of rigidity, namely with immigration rules, federal marijuana rule enforcement, etc. Trump gives these people a sense of hope in law/rule enforcement of the government.

2. After a month, Trump has not escalated a formal war with Iran, N. Korea, etc., yet.

3. Trump provides the oldest generation with a leader identity (oldest president).

4. Trump does get things done. He is effective at recruiting others to action.

5. Trump is still married after a month in office.

6. Trump has finally deferred an area for which he should speak less; he deligated decisions of torture to his secretary that does not share Trump's view.

7. Even as president, Trump still appears to make time for his complex family.

8. Trump says what is on his mind, & no record of obligated psychological evaluation is noted.

9. Trump has evaded polonium poisoning, for now, being friendly with Russia.

10. Trump has evaded rules of federal employees, including those particular to past presidents.
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Ser10Rec1pr0
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Ser10Rec1pr0 »

Gabask wrote:Lol the lack of comments on this post is evidence of Trump's good.
People that've known Trump for years are fairly stunned by his "darling-of-the-right" routine. Howard Stern said he likes Trump personally but disagrees w/ his politics.

But "his politics" was unwavering support for H. Clinton; until the day he announced his candidacy. Why would a so-called successful businessman throw himself into the prezzie spotlight? He's been marginal in NYC political machinations all his adult life; he occasionally contributed $5, 6K to candidates of both parties.

I wonder whether big Repo. donors offered to fund Trump's various lawsuits, in exchange for some extreme rightist political opinions. The rightists worship the "military," but one may conclude that Gen. Mattis's SECDEF post was not Mattis's idea of reward; that would've been commander of ground forces in Iraq, which back then went to Army Gen. Petraeus, for the simple but absurd reason that the Army had more troops on the ground than did the Marines, although Gen. Mattis'd had far greater success leading troops than Petraeus.

Moreover, as Melvin Goodman has written, retired admirals & generals do not do well in these civilian oversight positions, because they usually observe strict protocols of hierarchy, which are seldom present in high-echelon civilian posts.

The media, comparing Pres. Trump's extreme positions w/ those of Nixon, Reagan et al., decline to question whether Trump sincerely believes in anything he does. I, for one, do not.
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JMTelevideos
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by JMTelevideos »

I am not a Trump supporter, but I can see the good side of Trump and his ability. I believe that the actions of the left helped in his election.
In order to deal with Trump, one must deal with the left: It was the belligerent attitude of the left which propelled the conservative media
to promote Trump to the right as someone who could fix the frenzy which they were watching on T.V. (Many of the anti-trump people used labels
as means to convince people people).
Steve3007
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Steve3007 »

JMTelevideos: Judging by the positions of the carriage returns in your posts I suspect you're composing your posts in Windows Notepad and then pasting them into here. I do that too. The best way to avoid those strange carriage returns is to turn off "Word Wrap" in the "Format" drop-down in Notepad before copying and pasting.
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Burning ghost
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Burning ghost »

By talking about him someone has learnt something about wordpad :)
AKA badgerjelly
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