Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

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Steve3007
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Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 5th, 2017, 4:32 pm

Opinion polls cited in this article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/r ... a0e141b3c8

suggest that although a large majority of the US population reject the concept of "white supremacy" when described by those two words, very large numbers of people seem to agree with some of the aims of white supremacist groups.

For example, nearly a third of people polled agreed that “America must protect and preserve its White European heritage". Astonishingly (to me) 39% agreed that “white people are currently under attack in this country”. Perhaps even more astonishingly, 16% agreed that “marriage should only be allowed between people of the same race”. Only 2/3 of the people polled disagreed with this. So 1/3 of the US population (according to this poll) appear to believe that marriage should be allowed or disallowed based on the social construct of race, as manifested by skin pigmentation.

Am I just being politically correct to find this shocking and worrying? Or am I simply being taken in by the fake-news peddling, liberal mainstream media?

I'd be interested to hear the views of any people reading this who agree with any of the statements I've quoted above and, if so, why they agree with them.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by LuckyR » December 6th, 2017, 3:02 am

While I personally don't agree with the ideas you cited, I am completely unsurprised by the stats. What is surprising about lazy folks who are used to getting by based on bias, losing that advantage therefore falling behind then complaining about that turn of events?
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Belindi » December 6th, 2017, 3:13 pm

It depends upon whether or not the Huffington Post is impartial. The Huffington Post is not owned by anybody with a dishonest record, is it?

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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 6th, 2017, 3:40 pm

I think in the case of this particular Huffington Post article it's relatively easy to assess its honesty by following the link to the poll on which it's based (assuming the poll is honest). It's interesting to see the parts of the poll that are emphasized by the Huff Post article.

For example it points out that 39% of people who answered the poll agreed that "White people are currently under attack in this country". But actually, according to the poll, 55% believe that "racial minorities are currently under attack in this country".

So I guess that means there are a large number of Americans who simply believe that loads of people are under attack in America.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Greta » December 6th, 2017, 7:21 pm

The US looks to me a nation divided, with many seemingly intent on a civil war based on similar fascism/progressivism fault lines that are appearing in many societies. As populations become greater, competition becomes more intense, resulting in increased antipathy between competing subcultures.

In a sense, the nation that is furthest advanced in any particular area effectively acts as a canary in a coal mine for the rest of the world - so we see much authoritarianism in the East and chaos in the subcontinent, demonstrating the results of different approaches to high population density. The US has been most advanced in terms of power, and its rapid decline shows clearly how a nation without serious external competition will compete ever more fiercely internally. Such hubris seems inevitable over time, but in this instance is exacerbated by the intense conflicts and exploitation in the US's relatively short history.

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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Burning ghost » December 6th, 2017, 7:22 pm

50% of polls don't select a reasonable cross-section of the population, 30% of stats have wide errors of margin, and I've just made all of this up 100%.

When people are pissed they blame people and look to legitimize their own views by creating polls. Most normal people have better things to do than take polls or answer badly constructed questions.

I think given the history of the US we should expect it to take a long time before the dust settles. The US has trace issues and the evidence is quite blatant and hard to cover up. I just read some comments by Orwell that touched on this subject and US soldiers attitudes toward their fellow black soldiers during WWII.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Dachshund » December 6th, 2017, 11:37 pm

Steve3007 wrote:
December 5th, 2017, 4:32 pm
Opinion polls cited in this article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/r ... a0e141b3c8

suggest that although a large majority of the US population reject the concept of "white supremacy" when described by those two words, very large numbers of people seem to agree with some of the aims of white supremacist groups.

For example, nearly a third of people polled agreed that “America must protect and preserve its White European heritage". Astonishingly (to me) 39% agreed that “white people are currently under attack in this country”. Perhaps even more astonishingly, 16% agreed that “marriage should only be allowed between people of the same race”. Only 2/3 of the people polled disagreed with this. So 1/3 of the US population (according to this poll) appear to believe that marriage should be allowed or disallowed based on the social construct of race, as manifested by skin pigmentation.

Am I just being politically correct to find this shocking and worrying? Or am I simply being taken in by the fake-news peddling, liberal mainstream media?

I'd be interested to hear the views of any people reading this who agree with any of the statements I've quoted above and, if so, why they agree with them.

Steve,


In responding to your post, I'd like to say first and foremost that where you use the term "white supremacy", I would personally use the term "white superiority". Secondly, I would like to suggest that we not get distracted by worrying about how precisely and/or accurately the results of this particular poll do or do not represent the actual views of the American public overall. The questions posed in the poll, are I think, sufficiently interesting in their own right and warrant further discussion. that I find in

You said that you'd like to hear the opinion of anyone who agrees with the three poll statements: (1) America must (now) protect and defend its white/European cultural heritage; (2) that Americans of white/ European (racial) descent are under attack in their own society and (3) that marriage/( and more to the point procreation) between Americans of White/European descent and American citizens who are members of other racial/ethnic groupings should be prohibited. I am one such person. You also requested that persons (like myself) who agree with these statements should explain why they agree with them. Therefore, let me begin by explaining why I agree with statements (1) and (2).

The current historical period in Western civilization that late capitalist, advanced , industrial Western societies like the United States find themselves in) began after the end of the second world war and is referred to by many as the era of postmodernity. The fundamental doctrine underpinning the various social and cultural movements that collectively constitute the postmodernist world view is relativism - the notion that there is no such thing as objective truth and hence the search for objective truth (metaphysics) is dead. For postmodern philosophers like Foucault, Lyotard, Derrida, Lacan and the like, the claim that that objective truth does not exist gave rise in the West to the influential notion of cultural relativism. Cultural relativism, in short, is the mistaken and corruptive idea - held devotees of the religion of politically correctness like Steve :lol: - that there are no objective standards by which our current Western societies and the dominant White/European cultural values that shape them can be judged because all cultures, for example, Islamic/Muslim cultures, black sub-Saharan African cultures, indigenous Aboriginal culture in Australia, Maori culture in New Zealand, North Korean or Cuban or Chinese culture, are each and all entitled to their own beliefs and accepted practices. Postmodernism teaches that there is no objective moral truth, and therefore no one moral code that is better or worse than another - and therefore that we cannot contend one culture is objectively superior to another. Moreover, according to the doctrine of cultural relativism there is no need or case for social progress because there are no objective goals to which we ought or can strive and advance/progress.


The era of postmodernity in the West has spawned a number intellectual descendents of cultural relativism in such mistaken and inherently decadent and degenerate social and cultural movements as: multiculturalism (the patently false view that all cultures are of equal value), political correctness ( the rigid and text can be interpreted according to any hermeneutical machications the reader so desires ti impose imposition of strict language codes consistent with multicultural principles) deconstructionism ( the claim that words are inadequate for describing reality), the notion that reality (and concepts like "race") are purely man - "manufactured" social constructs, "social engineering" ( the belief that a "holier than thou" intellectual and moral elite exist whose advanced and special wisdom, virtue, knowledge,compassion and superior judgement qualify them to direct the actions of the many through rational articulation or ,if necessary, by force, to rectify the injustices wrought upon the marginalised, oppressed and exploited "victims" of White cultural imperialism and so forth.

So, Steve, if I might "cut to the chase" I am going to tell you - at the risk of being very politically correct and offending your instinctive cultural relativism and multicultural sensibilities/ sympathies, etc that it is all a pack of LIES and the conspicuous , incontrovertible fact is that there DOES exist an objectively superior culture in the world today and that culture is White/European Western culture. Moreover, I do believe that this superior culture IS presently under threat from the predations of inferior, violent, retrograde cultures like that which grounds Islamic civilization and , for instance, the corrosive influence of growing black African racial agitation, sedition and miscegenation ( to give just two examples) in Western societies like the United States, where the opinion poll that was the subject of your OP was recently conducted.

Before you ask me how it is I can prove that White/European Western culture and civilization is objectively superior, I'll tell you. This fact of the objective superiority of White/European culture/civilization can be clearly and unequivocally demonstrated when different world cultures are evaluated based on the only befitting standard for judging[/i] the merit of any human culture and the civilization that is based upon it , namely, the extent to which it is either life - affirming or antiife. The prime example life - affirming/prolife culture continues to be White/European, Western culture in societies like the United States,the UK and Australia and the like, as these societies represent man at his very best. It is a self-evident fact is that today's White/European Western culture and the nations founded upon it embody the very same core values that make life as a man possible, namely: freedom; reason/rationality; individualism and man's natural rights; self-reliance, and self-responsibility based on free will and achievement; the need for limited, "small" republican representative government, and the rule of law; capitalism; economic freedom; political justice; language, literature and art that depict man as efficacious in the world, the flourishing of science and technology; the rules of logic, and the idea of causality in a universe governed by natural laws intelligible to man, etc. These - the core values of White/European, Western culture and it civilizations are values for all men cutting across ethnicity, geography and gender.

In sum, White/European, Western culture exhibits levels of freedom , opportunity, health, wealth, productivity, innovation, satisfaction, comfort and life expectancy unprecedented in human history. I believe that cultural relativism is a clear and direct threat to all of this in the current era of postmodernism and its decadent derivative social and cultural movements ( like multiculturalism and political correctness) and it is high time for the white man in the West today to wake up and actively defend his culture - that is, the world's superior, most noble and inherently life-affirming culture before it is too late.


Regards


John

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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Dachshund » December 7th, 2017, 1:28 am

NB: Please note that there is an error in the wordingof a section in paragraph number 4 of my post above. It should read : "... political correctness ( the rigid imposition strict language codes consistent with multiculturalism), deconstructioinism (the claim that words are inadequate for describing reality and the view that text can be interpreted according to any hermaneutical machinations the reader so desires to apply to the meaning of what is written)..."

Regards,

John

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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by LuckyR » December 7th, 2017, 2:49 am

Funny how self evident "proof" of this or that sounds convincing only to folks who already believe, thus swaying no one.

If you think about it, superior things don't need to be defended (since they are inherently superior, remember?). Old, anachronistic leftovers from bygone eras need to be defended, because they are on the way out.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Dachshund » December 7th, 2017, 5:07 am

Greta wrote:
December 6th, 2017, 7:21 pm
The US looks to me a nation divided, with many seemingly intent on a civil war based on similar fascism/progressivism fault lines that are appearing in many societies. As populations become greater, competition becomes more intense, resulting in increased antipathy between competing subcultures.

In a sense, the nation that is furthest advanced in any particular area effectively acts as a canary in a coal mine for the rest of the world - so we see much authoritarianism in the East and chaos in the subcontinent, demonstrating the results of different approaches to high population density. The US has been most advanced in terms of power, and its rapid decline shows clearly how a nation without serious external competition will compete ever more fiercely internally. Such hubris seems inevitable over time, but in this instance is exacerbated by the intense conflicts and exploitation in the US's relatively short history.
Greta, I've noticed in many of your posts that you have a habit of gravitating towards two basicissues(?) One is that fact you are very concerned that planet Earth is over populated and that this is the locus of many of humanities currents ills.( BTW I find this obsession rather curious as you are an Australian and being born myself in Oz, I know there is plenty of spare space on the continent yet to be filled? ) The second is your fixation with the problem of guns, gun laws laws and gun crimes in the US - you are forever "BANGING ON" :) about this matter. Are you aware of these tendencies?

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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 7th, 2017, 7:38 am

Dachshund:
In responding to your post, I'd like to say first and foremost that where you use the term "white supremacy", I would personally use the term "white superiority"
Understood. For clarity:

From your subsequent words in the post from which the above quote is taken, I assume you mean the objective moral superiority of a particular set of ethical principles that might collectively be referred to as a Christian-based culture with its modern origins in Europe (from ancient Rome and Greece, through the Renaissance and the Enlightenment to the birth of modern "Western" democracies, and so on), which spread to the Americas, Australia and some other places via European colonialism and exploration.

And when we say "white" I assume we're not literally referring to skin pigmentation, in the same sense that when people refer to "western" culture they're not literally referring to a point on the compass. We're referring to the above mentioned European-origin culture. And because of the northern latitude of Europe, most people living there have pale skin. So "white" is a convenient shorthand, just as "western" is.

Do you agree with the above summary of what you're referring to with the expression "white superiority"?
Secondly, I would like to suggest that we not get distracted by worrying about how precisely and/or accurately the results of this particular poll do or do not represent the actual views of the American public overall. The questions posed in the poll, are I think, sufficiently interesting in their own right and warrant further discussion.
I agree. The question we're discussing is the general one of the extent to which "white superiority" is deemed to be under attack and the even more general questions of moral absolutism versus relativism.
You said that you'd like to hear the opinion of anyone who agrees with the three poll statements: (1) America must (now) protect and defend its white/European cultural heritage; (2) that Americans of white/ European (racial) descent are under attack in their own society and (3) that marriage/( and more to the point procreation) between Americans of White/European descent and American citizens who are members of other racial/ethnic groupings should be prohibited. I am one such person.
Excellent.
You also requested that persons (like myself) who agree with these statements should explain why they agree with them. Therefore, let me begin by explaining why I agree with statements (1) and (2).
Say on.
The current historical period in Western civilization that late capitalist, advanced , industrial Western societies like the United States find themselves in) began after the end of the second world war and is referred to by many as the era of postmodernity.
I'm wary of pretending that history divides itself neatly into eras, on the boundary of which people suddenly start thinking in completely different ways. It's a simplification. But simplifications are often necessary for the sake of brevity. So I'll let it go.
The fundamental doctrine underpinning the various social and cultural movements that collectively constitute the postmodernist world view is relativism - the notion that there is no such thing as objective truth and hence the search for objective truth (metaphysics) is dead.
If this really is the definition of "relativism" then I am certainly no relativist myself. I find the idea that there is such a thing as objective truth extremely useful. I couldn't possibly live without it. I've argued that point several times with posters on this website. RJG is particular example of a poster who springs to mind.

However, if "relativism" means "the idea that morals are created within human minds and do not exist objectively as a property of the universe" then, in that sense, I am a relativist. I find it useful to believe that such things as matter, energy and gravity exist independently of any human's subjective perception of them. I find it useful to believe that these things existed before humans existed and will continue to exist after we are gone. I don't find it useful to believe that of concepts like right and wrong or love and hate.
For postmodern philosophers like Foucault, Lyotard, Derrida, Lacan and the like, the claim that that objective truth does not exist gave rise in the West to the influential notion of cultural relativism. Cultural relativism, in short, is the mistaken and corruptive idea - held devotees of the religion of politically correctness like Steve :lol: - that there are no objective standards by which our current Western societies and the dominant White/European cultural values that shape them can be judged because all cultures, for example, Islamic/Muslim cultures, black sub-Saharan African cultures, indigenous Aboriginal culture in Australia, Maori culture in New Zealand, North Korean or Cuban or Chinese culture, are each and all entitled to their own beliefs and accepted practices.
You're conflating different ideas here (shown in bold). I agree with the first bolded part (with which you disagree). The standards by which we judge the merits of various cultural practices are, by definition, our own standards. For example, I disagree with the tradition Abrahamic religions' views on homosexuality not because there is an objectively existing law, like the law of gravity, which states that homosexuality is acceptable. I disagree because of my personal opinions. You either agree or disagree for the same reasons.

But the second bolded part does not follow from the first. It is my view that various peoples are not entitled to act as they want simply because it is their traditional practice to do so. But the point is that this is my opinion. I do not claim it as a universal law.
...devotees of the religion of politically correctness like Steve :lol:...
I appreciate the use of the smiley face there, in recognition of the fact that you are, so to speak, putting me in a box, sticking a label on that box and then critcising the label.

As far as I can gather, your conclusion that I follow a religion of political correctness is based on my previous disagreement with your idea that citizens of the UK/USA/Australia who self-identify as Muslim should be stripped of their citizenship and collectively labelled as murderers or the enablers of murderers, in a way that is reminiscent to me of the treatment of Jews in 1930s Germany. I presume it's your view that disagreeing with this proposition is an example of "political correctness gone mad". Yes? If not, can you quote some of my other words on which it is based?
Postmodernism teaches that there is no objective moral truth, and therefore no one moral code that is better or worse than another - and therefore that we cannot contend one culture is objectively superior to another.
I disagree that the conclusion follows from the premise here. The fact that moral truth does not exist as an objective property of the universe, independent of human minds, does not mean that we have to accept all moral codes as equally valid. My own moral code is more valid than that of loads of other people. That's why I've adopted it. If I didn't believe that then it wouldn't be my moral code.

The standard objection to this is that it means I have nothing to back up my moral code when it comes to a moral disagreement. My answer is that neither does anybody else. Look around at the world. Simply asserting that one's own moral code is the objectively correct one, perhaps underwritten by an infallible God, doesn't seem to work does it? Daesch, in Syria and Iraq, have asserted that very thing. It hasn't convinced us, has it?

The only way to convince people with differing moral codes to change their views is to seek underlying common goals. Very very frequently, arguments which appear to be about values turn out to be arguments about facts. Arguments about facts can, at least theoretically, be settled with appeals to empirical evidence.
Moreover, according to the doctrine of cultural relativism there is no need or case for social progress because there are no objective goals to which we ought or can strive and advance/progress.
Again, simply asserting that certain goals somehow exist objectively, outside of human minds, doesn't work.
The era of postmodernity in the West has spawned a number intellectual descendents of cultural relativism in such mistaken and inherently decadent and degenerate social and cultural movements as: multiculturalism (the patently false view that all cultures are of equal value)
That's not my understanding of "multiculturalism". To me, it is the view that there is at least some extent to which people of differing cultural backgrounds can find enough common cause to live in close proximity to each other.
political correctness ( the rigid and text can be interpreted according to any hermeneutical machications the reader so desires ti impose imposition of strict language codes consistent with multicultural principles)
Banning people from talking in particular ways is never something that I have agreed with. Perhaps that means I don't believe in political correctness? Who'd have thought it?!?
deconstructionism ( the claim that words are inadequate for describing reality),
That's an odd one. I'm using words here to try to describe all kinds of things, so clearly I disagree with it.
the notion that reality (and concepts like "race") are purely man - "manufactured" social constructs,
OK, are we talking about "reality" or "race" here? If the latter: In your view, what does "race" mean? To me it's similar to many other classification systems. No different from the system we use to decide whether we think Pluto is a planet or tomatoes are a fruit. Clearly and obviously it's created by humans in order to manage the complexity of the world by compartmentalising.
"social engineering" ( the belief that a "holier than thou" intellectual and moral elite exist whose advanced and special wisdom, virtue, knowledge,compassion and superior judgement qualify them to direct the actions of the many through rational articulation or ,if necessary, by force, to rectify the injustices wrought upon the marginalised, oppressed and exploited "victims" of White cultural imperialism and so forth.
I don't believe in that one. I'm not a big fan of "holier than thou" absolute moral authorities. But given that you are a moral absolutists, presumably you are such a fan, yes?
So, Steve, if I might "cut to the chase" I am going to tell you - at the risk of being very politically [in?]correct and offending your instinctive cultural relativism and multicultural sensibilities/ sympathies, etc...
Thank you for informing me what my instincts are.
...that it is all a pack of LIES and the conspicuous , incontrovertible fact is that there DOES exist an objectively superior culture in the world today and that culture is White/European Western culture.
I note your opinion.
Moreover, I do believe that this superior culture IS presently under threat from the predations of inferior, violent, retrograde cultures like that which grounds Islamic civilization and , for instance, the corrosive influence of growing black African racial agitation, sedition and miscegenation ( to give just two examples) in Western societies like the United States, where the opinion poll that was the subject of your OP was recently conducted.
I note the use of the term "I do believe". So, again, I note your opinion.
Before you ask me how it is I can prove that White/European Western culture and civilization is objectively superior, I'll tell you.
I wasn't goint to ask you that. Proof is confined to the realm of mathematics. But go on.
This fact of the objective superiority of White/European culture/civilization can be clearly and unequivocally demonstrated when different world cultures are evaluated based on the only befitting standard for judging[/i] the merit of any human culture and the civilization that is based upon it , namely, the extent to which it is either life - affirming or antiife.
What do you mean by "life affirming"? Do you mean having a tendency to prolong life? Just human life, or other life? If just human life, all human life or just some?
The prime example life - affirming/prolife culture continues to be White/European, Western culture in societies like the United States,the UK and Australia and the like, as these societies represent man at his very best. It is a self-evident fact is that today's White/European Western culture and the nations founded upon it embody the very same core values that make life as a man possible, namely: freedom; reason/rationality; individualism and man's natural rights; self-reliance, and self-responsibility based on free will and achievement;
Opinion noted. I'm quite a big fan of many aspects of western culture too.
the need for limited, "small" republican representative government,
I'd say that the debate about big/small government and the extent to which taxation should be used to fund public services is a separate thread to this argument. I mentioned above that arguments which are ostensibly about values often turn out to be about facts. I think the argument about big/small government and high/low taxation is often an example of that. I've discussed this elsewhere with other posters.
and the rule of law; capitalism; economic freedom; political justice; language, literature and art that depict man as efficacious in the world, the flourishing of science and technology; the rules of logic, and the idea of causality in a universe governed by natural laws intelligible to man, etc. These - the core values of White/European, Western culture and it civilizations are values for all men cutting across ethnicity, geography and gender.
A hugely diverse number of subjects listed there. I don't really see the function of listing a thing like "the rules of logic" with "capitalism". It would take longer than I currently have available to unpack what you might be trying to say here.
In sum, White/European, Western culture exhibits levels of freedom , opportunity, health, wealth, productivity, innovation, satisfaction, comfort and life expectancy unprecedented in human history.
The industrial revolution, the concept of free market capitalism and advances in healthcare certainly have, as you say, created levels of material comfort and life expectancy that are unprecedented in human history. Again, the pros and cons of all this is a whole other thread.
I believe that cultural relativism is a clear and direct threat to all of this in the current era of postmodernism and its decadent derivative social and cultural movements ( like multiculturalism and political correctness) and it is high time for the white man in the West today to wake up and actively defend his culture - that is, the world's superior, most noble and inherently life-affirming culture before it is too late.
Your opinion is noted and thank you for giving it.

Now I've dealt with the points in your post, after a break, I might offer some views of my own about the way in which values that we hold as precious ought to be defended. But first, I need to do some work.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Londoner » December 7th, 2017, 7:49 am

Dachshund wrote:
December 6th, 2017, 11:37 pm

Before you ask me how it is I can prove that White/European Western culture and civilization is objectively superior, I'll tell you. This fact of the objective superiority of White/European culture/civilization can be clearly and unequivocally demonstrated when different world cultures are evaluated based on the only befitting standard for judging[/i] the merit of any human culture and the civilization that is based upon it , namely, the extent to which it is either life - affirming or antiife.


Sometimes White/European Western societies are like that, but sometimes they aren't. Sometimes they go in for genocide, which is rather antilife. And even when a society as a whole behaves reasonably, white, European and western individuals within that society can be cruel, selfish, ignorant etc.

So there is no correlation between being white, European and western and being 'life-affirming'.

That being the case, then if a culture which is White/European Western also has features we approve of it can't be cause and effect.

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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Belindi » December 7th, 2017, 9:22 am

I agree with Steve, and Londoner.

Far-right wordy activists such as Dachshund are demolished by such as Steve. However far-right activists are sometimes far-right violent terrorists, and Dachshund's words indicate that he is in bed with such people.

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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Dachshund » December 7th, 2017, 9:24 am

Londoner,

The White/European Western cultural tradition stretches back to the era of classical Athenian antiquity - to the time of Homer and the golden age of Pericles, to the Roman Empire, then onward through the middle ages in the work of philosophers like , for instance, Saint Augustine, Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas, to the remarkable artistic and scientific achievements of the renaissance and then the Enlightenment - the Age of Reason and it great philosophers like Kant, to the the industrial revolution in 19th century England and then to the dramatic scientific/technological advances of the 20th and 21st centuries. Western culture has had its problems - I am not claiming it is always a paragon of virtue, or perfect or absolutely angelic. The 20th century saw the Western culture go through a very "rough patch", it was struggling in thrall of what I would call a a crisis of rationalism ( a crisis of Enlightenment reason) that precipitated horrors like the first world war, the rise of Hitler's totalitarian Third Reich and the Jewish holocaust, Mao's communist "cultural revolution", the brutal reign of Stalinism in Russia, the death of 2 million innocents hacked to death in Pol Pot's Cambodian "killing fields" the nuclear bombing of untold thousands of civilians in Hiroshima, the Cold war arms race and the brinkmanship of total nuclear annihilation that played out during the Cuban missile crisis in September of 1962, all of this as well as many other catastrophic disasters that befell humanity in that brutal and murderous century. The West is still mired in this crisis of rationalism today, but I am confident it will eventually solve the problems it has created, like global warming/climate change, for instance.

As for the matter of individuals in Western civilizations past and present behaving badly, this has nothing to do with my post which was concerned with solely with the matter of White/European Western CULTURE. CULTURE is not a term that refers to the conduct - good, bad or indifferent - of individuals in a society, but rather to the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual activity when considered COLLECTIVELY. Likewise, when I referred to the white/European Western culture as a life-affirming culture, I was not suggesting that INDIVIDUALS of white/European descent are all life-affirming persons; obviously not ALL of them are.

Not sure exactly what you mean when you refer to "cause and effect" in the last line of your post?

Regards,

John

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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Ecurb » December 7th, 2017, 8:34 pm

Dachshund wrote:
December 6th, 2017, 11:37 pm



In responding to your post, I'd like to say first and foremost that where you use the term "white supremacy", I would personally use the term "white superiority".
Of course modern physical anthropologists are aware that "white" or "Caucasian" does not describe a "race". The old notion of four basic human "races" has been disproved by DNA testing (many "Caucasoids" are more closely related genetically to many "negroids" than they are to many other caucasoids).

In addition, isn't Dachshund's anti-Muslim bigotry anti-White? Are those "white" Muslims an example of "white superiority"?

As far as the superiority of Western Culture, we all think that our own beliefs and mores are superior to those of others. If we didn't, we would change our mores and beliefs. Indeed, many Westerners practice Buddhism because they have decided that Western values are inferior to Eastern values. We should recognize, though, that although we can choose our beliefs, those beliefs are also products of our enculturation. If we value Democracy or personal liberty, we do so because we have been taught to do so. Naturally, when we accept and internalize the values of our culture, we think those values superior to those of other cultures. Bigotry and White Supremacy, however, represent a twisted perversion of those values. Objectivity suggests that although we can believe our mores are the best (otherwise we would change them), we should recognize that we might very well be wrong. After all, if cultures didn't borrow from each other, and learn from each other, we wouldn't have the gun powder we need to shoot each other.

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