Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
Post Reply
Dachshund
Posts: 72
Joined: October 11th, 2017, 5:30 pm

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Dachshund » December 12th, 2017, 10:24 am

Well I must say ! I'm not sure exactly where to start in dealing with the veritable barrage of hostile "slings and arrows" that have been hurled at my good self by Steve, Burning Ghost and Londoner , etc; for the heinous crime I have committed of daring to speak the truth (on a philosophy forum, no less !) about realities like the innately evil nature of the Islamic religion or such self-evident facts as that Western civilization is predominantly the creation of a white/European RACE.

I think I will begin with the intemperate scolding I was given by Burning Ghost for having the temerity to utter the taboo "R word" ( i.e."race") in conjunction with the word "culture" :

"Just in case you're unclear ( BG yells)... THERE IS NO RACIAL CULTURE !! There is no WHITE culture or BLACK culture".


Burning Ghost is protesting, in particular,to my use of the term White/European to specify the racial category that predominantly undergirds Western culture/civilization. Londer, as well, claims that "there is no basis in science for the concept of race" In response I will now clarify my position with respect to the ideas of: (1) race, (2) culture and (3): how I believe they interact.

Firstly, with respect to the term "race", I would like to state that I absolutely reject the hermaneutical perpective of the current liberal orthodoxy as it continues to be expressed in the view of most contemporary social scientists in the West, namely, that race is an epiphenomenon ( like gender as opposed to sex) - that it is a purely abstract, man-manufactured ,social construct that does not exist as a real, concrete phenomenon in objective,physical world . These social scientists argue that the real causal agents of race are political, social and economic forces. My position, in contrast , is "race realism", which is the same position as that of most mainstream scientists currently engaged in the serious study of race. Race realism views race is a valid, concrete biological concept in the natural world, any argues that like any other widely distributed species homo sapiens is divided into local varieties ( sub-species, breeds, strains) -RACES- that differ in their biology, and where races show different statistical profiles on heritable (genetic) traits like physiognomy, metabolism, disease susceptibility,and BIP (behaviour, intelligence, personality) traits, it is perfectly reasonable to infer that biological differences are the causal factor; these biological differences work together with adscititious factors (hisory, geography, epidemiology) to shape social outcomes. Race realism, in short, views race as a natural biological phenomenon which which can be observed, studied and explained by a range of empirical scientific methodologies including surveys, social demography, IQ and personality tests and behaviour genetic analyses (like twin studies).

When, in this thread, I have referred to the WHITE race, I have meant those light-skinned people of Europid, chiefly North and Western European (e.g. Anglo-Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian) ancestry who currently constitute the majority of the populations of advanced, contemporary Western societies, such as: North America/the USA ( 80% White), the UK (91% white), Australia (92% white), Canada (66% white), New Zealand (70% white).

So, having briefly explained my position on the idea of race, Let me now proceed re-define the term "culture" in the sense that I am using the term, before concluding with one example for Burning Ghost of how race has strongly influenced culture in the case of the white/Europid and black indigenous Australoid populations in the modern Western nation of Australia to produce, I will argue, two very distinctive RACIAL CULTURES ( Recall BG is emphatic in telling us that there is no such thing as a WHITE or BLACK RACIAL CULTURE.

I define the term "culture" in the context that I am using it to mean ," the arts and other MANIFESTATIONS OF HUMAN INTELLECTUAL ACHIEVEMENT regarded collectively" (this definition is taken from a standard reputable dictionary, "Collins", if I recall). Note how culture is defined as being principally an intellectual phenomenon, one that chiefly involved the use of thought, reason, rational cognition and the higher "executive" processes of mind. For example, the philosophy of Kant, the poetry of Shakespeare, the science of Einstein and the painting of Rembrandt are all incontrovertible examples of masterpieces of Western culture. They are all, indeed, "manifestations of human intellectual achievement" and all clearly
involved the application of advanced rational cognitive processes like problem -solving, analysis, synthesis, sequencing, rational deduction, abduction and inference, reasoning by the rules of logic and so on.

Now having defined the concepts race and culture, let investigative whether or not there is such a thing as "racial culture" by looking at the modern history of the black aboriginal Australoid[/i] race and the white Europid race in Australia. Culture, as mentioned ,is essentially a creation of man's intellect, in particular, the higher "executive" cognitive functions like logical thinking, reasoning/ratiocination, critical thinking, problem-solving , analysis, planning and so on. Generally speaking, the advanced these intellectual capacities are among a particular human population, the more sophisticated and advanced will be the cultural achievements of the society that they develop. I give you the example of the "Golden Age of Pericles" in classical Athenian antiquity, an era that most historians would agree represented THE zenith of human cultural achievement and civilization.

In the case of the population of black, indigenous, Australoid Australian aboriginals repeated psychometric testing has shown that their average group IQ is extremely low at around 62 points as compared to the group average for the majority white Europid Australian population which is around 100 points on standardized modern IQ tests.

Before the predicable chorus of shrill/hysterical objections from race denialist liberal forum members reading this post are published, I would like to remind them that there is now an extensive, overwhelming weight of scientific evidence to support the notion that intelligence is something real, that it can be reliably and validly measured without ( cultural or other) bias and that the measures do validly predict many real world outcomes that are important to most human beings. There is now also broad agreement among intelligence researchers that one component of intelligence is a general ability ( a "g-factor") to reason and problem-solve (which I have identified , above, with the cognitive and affective processes that represent what neuropsychologists call frontal lobe "executive functioning"). And finally, there is now overwhelming scientific evidence that genes/genetics play a significant role in explaining differences in intelligence among individuals.

For me, this clearly explains why it was that when the first British explorers and anthropologists arrived in Australia in the later half of the 18th century and began to study the native aboriginal population they frequently remarked on their conspicuously low level of intelligence. Noting, for example, that their language was very limited in vocabulary ( for instance, having no word for "thumb"), lacking in numbers except 1 and 2, lacked abstract concepts and was poor in collective nouns ( an indication of an inability to form general concepts).

Their lifestyle and culture was described as primitive, stone-age, hunter-gathering, and largely devoid of pottery, metal work, domesticated animals, the cultivation and storage of food for future consumption, the bow and arrow, and well-developed hunting techniques.

Today, despite decades of intervention from State and Federal Australian governments in the form of countless attempts to implement (expensive) social policies and programs to remediate their difficulties ( all of which have utterly failed, if not, paradoxically worsened the issues they sort to resolve) the black Australian aboriginal race continues to struggle desperately with a broad range of serious social problems. Compared to their white Europid Australian countrymen the aboriginal population continues to have a much higher crime ( particularly violent crime) and incarceration rate, a higher prevalence of multiple forms of substance abuse, chronic unemployment, endemic welfare/social service dependency, poor earnings, profound difficulties with financial management/planning, an extraordinary high rate of domestic violence/domestic dysfunction, a high fertility rate, a shocking problem with child sexual abuse in their own communities ,very low/. non-existent educational attainment, a high prevalence of problems with health ( eg, mental health issues like depression and medical conditions like diabetes) a lower life expectancy and generally speaking , a very poor day-to-day capacity for basic adaptive functioning.

So BG , here is one clear - cut , real -life, concrete example of a distinctive BLACK RACIAL CULTURE for you.

Regards,

Dachshund

Steve3007
Posts: 4374
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 12th, 2017, 11:31 am

Dachshund wrote:Well I must say ! I'm not sure exactly where to start in dealing with the veritable barrage of hostile "slings and arrows" that have been hurled at my good self by Steve, Burning Ghost and Londoner , etc; for the heinous crime I have committed of daring to speak the truth (on a philosophy forum, no less !) about realities like the innately evil nature of the Islamic religion or such self-evident facts as that Western civilization is predominantly the creation of a white/European RACE.
Dachshund, as I'm sure you're well aware, you haven't simply been "speaking the truth" in the sense of stating objective, indisputable facts about the world. You've been proposing various actions. One of the actions that you have proposed is the collective punishment of a large section of society based only on their religious affiliation. And you've proposed that action because you say this is a way of protecting (among other things) a justice system in which collective punishment is rightly condemned.

Why are you apparently so shocked when people express moral opposition to that proposition and/or point out its central internal contradiction? Is your shock genuine or just a rhetorical device, like that schoolteacher shtick that you tried earlier?
"Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch."

Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 956
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Belindi » December 12th, 2017, 11:43 am

It wont just be the Muslims that people like Dachsund liquidate . They will be hanging intellectuals from the lamp posts. Already they have captured the mass media in the USA and skewed the relative numbers of right wing terrorist murders, and Muslim or Black terrorist murders, so that right wing murderers are shielded like Trump re Charlottesville.

Steve3007
Posts: 4374
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 12th, 2017, 11:46 am

Indeed. "They came for the Muslims, but I wasn't a Muslim, so I did nothing."
"Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch."

Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 956
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Belindi » December 12th, 2017, 11:53 am

Has anyone noticed the uncanny similarity of the literary styles of Gustav Bjornstrand and Dachsund?

Steve3007
Posts: 4374
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 12th, 2017, 12:11 pm

Belindi:

No, I can't say I have. But I don't know who Gustav Bjornstrand is. Dachshund, though, does have a record of block-quoting large tracts of other people's words without acknowledging having done so. Here:

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... 15#p299431

Which was a copy/paste job from here:

http://www.aggressivechristianity.net/i ... uslims.htm
"Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch."

Burning ghost
Posts: 1798
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Burning ghost » December 12th, 2017, 12:28 pm

I was saying RACE and CULTURE are not synonymous, because they're not.

Are you suggesting that Canadian and Australia culture is the same because the population is mostly white? Are people from Africa and people from Australia the same?? Speak sense or shut up please. White Europeans 10,000 years ago would be considered as having "primitive" life styles too ... wait?? Do you have an IQ higher than the average Aboriginal in Australia? People can have low IQ's and still be better people (last I heard the average was more like 108 I think?)

I am happy to talk about racial differences. You seem to have missed out the largest land Empire to have ever existed? You know, Ghengis and son?
AKA badgerjelly

Steve3007
Posts: 4374
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 12th, 2017, 1:14 pm

Burning ghost wrote: White Europeans 10,000 years ago would be considered as having "primitive" life styles too.
In the country where I live you don't have to go as far back as 10,000 years to find people living in the stone age while the populations of various other parts of the world, like China and Egypt, had already developed sophisticated civilisations.
"Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch."

User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 5789
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Greta » December 12th, 2017, 4:46 pm

Dachshund wrote:
December 12th, 2017, 10:24 am
Well I must say ! I'm not sure exactly where to start in dealing with the veritable barrage of hostile "slings and arrows" that have been hurled at my good self by Steve, Burning Ghost and Londoner , etc; for the heinous crime I have committed of daring to speak the truth (on a philosophy forum, no less !) ...
"Daring to speak the truth" is a naive phrase from one purporting to know what is appropriate on a philosophy forum. You have just been sprouting political views as absolute truths. Where is the philosophy? Where's the depth or appreciation of the human condition? I see a lot of tribalism and defence of your society, which is not philosophy.

For the record, I believe that subtle (and often trivial) racial differences are real, but I don't much care because conditioning is most pivotal.

Dachshund
Posts: 72
Joined: October 11th, 2017, 5:30 pm

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Dachshund » December 13th, 2017, 7:07 am

Belindi?Steve,

I have no idea who Gustav Bjornstrand is and the post of mine above regarding racial culture was an original piece of work.

Steve3007
Posts: 4374
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 13th, 2017, 8:05 am

Dachshund wrote:...and the post of mine above regarding racial culture was an original piece of work.
Original to the original author, no doubt. But not you. Unless you are that author (apparently named Sujit Das)?

A small sample:

Sujit Das:
The slogan “Islam is a peaceful religion” is about 1,400 years out of date. The seed of terrorism is germinating inside every Muslim. Anyone, who has put a single grain of trust on Muhammad and his Qur’an, fills up his mind with unjustified hate and paranoia, and he is bound to have similar destructive ideas like his Prophet. The dark force of Muhammad’s narcissism immediately starts working in him.
Dachshund:
The slogan "Islam is a religion of peace" is about 1400 years out of date. The seed of terrorism is germinating inside every Muslim. Anyone who puts a grain of trust on Mohammed and the Koran, fills up his mind with unjustifiable hate and paranoia, and he is bound to harbour the same kind of destructive ideas as his prophet. The sinister force of Mohammed's narcissism immediately starts working in him.
Spot the differences that were presumably added to obscure the origin.

Dachshund, if you're going to quote large tracts of other people's words verbatim, you need to acknowledge that this is what you have done.
"Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch."

Steve3007
Posts: 4374
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 13th, 2017, 8:12 am

Another one from further down, in case that was just a coincidence (like a monkey typing out the works of Shakespeare):

Sujit Das:
Islam and terrorism are blood brothers. In the wake of the two London bombings in 2005, al-Ghurabaa, one of the most radical Islamic groups in Britain, stated (Dawkins, 2006, p. 307): “Any Muslim that denies that terror is a part of Islam is kafir (nonbeliever)”. And a similar self-explanatory statement from Zakir Naik (Al-Kindy, 2005, p. 86; Downing, 2009, p. 354) is: “Every Muslim should be a terrorist”. These so-called peaceful Muslims are very calculative and proceed sophistically. As example, the influential American convert to Islam Hamza Yusuf in November 2004 exhorted Muslims to advance strategically to their goals (cited Spencer, 2006, p. 189); “There are times when you have to live like a sheep, in order to live in the future like a lion”.
Dachshund:
Islam and terrorism are blood brothers. In the wake of the two London bombings in 2005, al-Ghurabaa, one of the most radical Islamic groups in Britain stated: "Any Muslim that believes that terror is a part of Islam is "kafir" (non-believer)". And a similar self-explanatory statement from Zakir Naik was: "Every Muslim should be a terrorist". These so-called peaceful Muslims are very calculative and proceed in a highly sophisticated manner. For instance, the influential American convert to Islam, Hamza Yusuf, exhorted Muslims to advance strategically in their goals, saying: "There are times when you have to live like a sheep, in order to live a future like a lion".
I notice in this case you've correct some of the original author's grammar.
"Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch."

User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 5789
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Greta » December 13th, 2017, 8:19 am

Well spotted, Steve, and thanks for fixing the attributions.

Steve3007
Posts: 4374
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Steve3007 » December 13th, 2017, 8:53 am

Greta:

I can't remember how exactly how I spotted it but I think it's one of the first few hits that comes up if you Google something like "Islam is evil". Something like that.

I think it illustrates a point that's been discussed around here before about how the amount of easily accessible information available thanks to the internet allows people to easily setup "echo chambers" without having to actually talk to any of the people with whom they disagree or who they decide to demonise. One of the many questions I've asked Dachshund is if he has actually talked to any Muslims where he lives. No reply, of course.

Personally, I'm not a great fan of Islam for the same reasons that I'm not a great fan of many parts of the Old Testament. But I don't conclude from this that all Christian or Muslim members of the society in which I live should be stripped of their citizenship, without even talking to them about their religion and their general worldview.

If I talk to Christians they say things like the Old Testament is superseded by the New Testament, should be taken in context and so on. Fair enough. That's their business. Likewise, if I ask an actual Muslim in the country where I live why they don't go around killing unbelievers as my non-Muslim eyes seem to see the Koran telling them to do, and why they obey the laws of the land just like me, they say similar things. They talk about context and interpretation. Again, fair enough.

I have roughly the same amount of respect for the Koran (as a moral guide for the modern world) as I do for the Old Testament. i.e. not much. But each to their own. People can venerate whatever book they want. I look for the common ground between us and work on that.

I think the worst thing that can happen is if we decide to stop looking for common ground, retreat into our respective trenches and hurl abuse at each other from a distance, without the need for any personal interaction, as Dachshund seems to think we should do.
"Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch."

User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 5789
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?

Post by Greta » December 13th, 2017, 7:25 pm

I agree with the above, Steve.

You asked about the Alabama result. From what I can gather there might be some small influence of protest vote but apparently Trump remains popular in that state. Mostly it seems that the voters didn't want Moore because his level of fundamentalism and sexual misconduct was even beyond that which US Republicans tolerate. Glad to see that they do have limits in those areas, many have been wondering if there were any.

Post Reply