Government of the people, by the people, for the people

You do, everyone does... How silly to think otherwise. Life spans increase every year, for even the poorest, waist lines the same. Among the poor, most have cars or access to free transport, they get free food, they have TV's, they go to malls, they can even eat cake

If they are subjugated, it is the best sujugation ever. Gilded cage with flat screen & free food is not easily thrown away in hopes of better digs, that may not be there anyway. Especially when you must eat teargas and rubber bullets to even get started... The occupy bums will still fight, of course, but not the rest, we are happy.

Is that the best we can hope for? You care little about those who die for the lack of health care. You care little about governments that are manipulated by corporate interests? You are correct in assuming we should be grateful for what we have but it is our effort not those who manipulate our economy and our lives. In Europe there is hardship, hunger and anger. Ignore it at your pleasure but do not assume it will not fester and erupt.

The poorest americans have an average life span of 4 to 5 years less than the very richest, there is greater disparity between state populations. There just is no great disparity between classes when it comes to health care, which is why there will be no eruption.

The poorest americans have an average life span of 4 to 5 years less than the very richest, there is greater disparity between state populations. There just is no great disparity between classes when it comes to health care, which is why there will be no eruption.

Not yet but if the capitalist society keeps on failing more and more of the citizens, it will happen, History bares it out. The war of independence? British colonists never had it so good but a cup of tea drove a few nutters to rebellion.

What do you base the assertion that "British colonists never had it so good"?

Promote- to help or encourage to exist or flourish; further

General- considering or dealing with overall characteristics, universal aspects, or important elements, especially without considering all details or specific aspects: general instructions; a general description; a general resemblance one to another.

Welfare- the good fortune, health, happiness, prosperity, etc., of a person, group, or organization; well-being: to look after a child's welfare; the physical or moral welfare of society


The key to this argument to me is the promote. It is a distinctly different concept from PROVIDE-(to make available; furnish). Even though I do not agree with all of the language in the Bill of Rights I think that the idea that we have the right to the PURSUIT of happiness and not a guarantee of happiness supports the idea that it is not the job of the government to provide health care for everyone. We can come to a moral consensus that those who have fallen below a certain threshold can be supported in order to help maintain a mean level of health care for the nations polity but this is not what Obama care has done. It is attempting to co-opt everyone into one system therefore impeding some people's liberty to provide others a greater chance at happiness. Again there are no guarantees.

The real reason that people are becoming impoverished in this nation is due to the extraction of wealth from the country through the federal reserve system and corporations. There is no reason that we should be paying interest to a private corporation to provide our currency and to make economic policy. This lack of accountability allows the federal government to use the federal reserve system as a sort of scapegoat. This is certainly not a government of the people by the people and for the people. This is a legalized obfuscation of monetary policy in favor of a small group of private industrialists. A universal health care system is basically a bribe to keep the downtrodden from open revolt and a way to divide factions and to keep them from focusing on our real problem which is a central authority that is using our resources to invest it globally for their own good.

Here is a quote from Woodrow Wilson that predicts our current situation as he laments his role in supporting the federal reserve act of 1913.

I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world. No longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men. ~ Woodrow Wilson

What do you base the assertion that "British colonists never had it so good"?

The American colonists, British subjects, what did they want for in relation to those left behind in Britain?

Greco, I'm not sure I agree on the credit side... I don't think the conspiracy is there, though it may be splitting hairs. I think do-gooders want the credit to do good, make programs, fix our broken & unfair system, etc. The greedy bankers/privateers move in and take what they can, grab onto whatever loop-holes allow their enrichment. I assume there are conspiracies, but not one conspiracy by a few men. More like hundreds by thousands of men.

As far as the new healthcare act being a bribe, again I think that is a little tin-foil hat-ish. It is, to the people who made it, what it claims to be. Will this new system really even change the life of the average poor person? Very few will really notice a real difference... So if it was a bribe, it would be to a very few. The rest, even those who want it, will forget about it soon enough (if it survives).

But don't get me wrong, the fed=crap, and credit in general is damn near evil imo... I think jesus may have had the money changer thing right. But, free country and all that, not sure what could be done... Maybe some of that "promoting". At the very least, the government should spend within it's means, as an example.

Xris, what are you talking about? American colonists had to build a civilization from scratch... they busted their asses every day. What did they "want" for? Everything, so they built it, grew it, raised it, made it.

Maldon007- The same people who pushed for the establishment of the fed were the same people who were at odds with the government trying to regulate business and to keep it big business interests from becoming all powerful or more powerful then the government. Industrialists and central banker's closely affiliated with the Bank of England were very influential in putting the key players in place in the government to make this happen such as J. P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, Jr. and Paul Warburg. The first very powerful indication that the private ownership which is still secretive were looking out for their own best interests was when the fed refused to lend money to small banks in 1929 which led to many of them folding and being bought up by bigger banks. These same big banks now are some of the same banks that have taken on the pseudo mystical moniker of too big to fail and still reap the benefits of their close ties to ownership of the fed. Its the type of central authority that our founders tried to protect us against when they established our system of government except that no one actually knows who is in charge which means there is even less accountability then King George had to deal with. This is where trickle ON economics really was born IMO. Bill Still's Documentary The Money Masters gives an excellent account of the history of banking in the United States. I don't agree with all of Still's assertions on what is the best way of moving forward but the history itself is very well out together.

Our system has really taken on table scrap dynamic because of this continuous pooling of wealth into a small group of powerful individuals. As long as this system is perpetuated peoples economic freedom will be limited and we will need more and more government intervention in order for people to get the lowest level of support necessary in order to survive.

I have never been opposed to breaking up companies/monopolies that are destructive or potentially "too big to fail". As long as it is done legally... In fact, I might strengthen this power of government. I don't think individuals should be punished in these actions, but the companies themselves, if they can be broken up without destroying jobs, I can see doing more of that, including the fed.

Regarding the banking "conspiracy" Grecorivera5150 is not exaggerating the consolidation. Most economists even can't deny the compelling evidence that the great depression was a power play to absorb the smaller banks resulting in a great abundance of power being left in the hands of very few in the financial world. The fact that "the Fed" can not be regulated by the government despite having complete control of our nations currency should send up flags.

The number of individuals responsible for setting the worldwide interest rate is staggeringly low. I don't have the numbers in front of me but it is less than 100, with only 12-15 key people who all know each other much better than simply a first name basis. They most certainly do act in their own interests before yours, mine or anyone else's.

Now I am not saying that they are the prime source of economic problems in the world or in America. I could not possibly know if that were true. The issue is quite complicated, and likely only insiders could really know. However awareness that a handful of men that you did not elect and are largely unregulated do make decisions that can have a big impact in your life should concern us all, it is the very definition of tyranny. I don't know who said this but "If you allow men to take your freedom quietly than you don't deserve it" seems to fit here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_Ro_-tL ... re=g-all-u










Looks like we might see a repeat of 1929 in 2013- No quantitative easing 3 and no movement on interest rates and the fed points its finger at foreign markets. The federal reserve system is officially the biggest negative externality ever in the history of money.

The fact that "the people" are under the impression that they have ANY genuine say in our government is quite interesting. NO society since the beginning of time has actually given the people the power to make any real decisions. I mean, of course we FEEL like we have a choice by taking a vote. But, we are given choices of people that we elect. If it were a government for the people, by the people, then people would be elected from the counties, then from each county the elected rep would then go infront of the state, where the citizens of the state would elect the representative for the state and then the state reps would go infront of the country and the president would be elected.... The government controls the possibilities of who can be elected. The masses feel as if they have control, so that when a decision is made be it a representative, law, etc. no one reveals what they voted for and cant prove that the decision was made as the people voted. But, just to entertain the idea that the government is honest in that aspect. Lets say, (hypothetically of course) that the government can influence our decisions through media. Then more than expected do we feel like we have control. The human mind is so malleuable, why couldnt we just be masses making someone rich? think about the AVERAGE person making a decison. If 100 average people are faced with a question on morality. there were four choices A-D. A majority would choose the same answer by default. There for meaning if the average person (which is what society is mainly comprised of) is faced with a decison a majority will make the same decision without communication. If the majority believe something with the level of communication we have today, way more than just the bare minimum to make the majority percentage will agree on the same decision. It's simple, we feel empowered but really we are being taken advantage of.... The more Lincoln or any other president says its about the people the more empowered we feel and the less we doubt the governement.

NO society since the beginning of time has actually given the people the power to make any real decisions.

Prove it!