Can you justify political correctness?

[Philosophy Explorer]

I'm in the middle on this one.

One the one hand, it infringes on my freedom of speech. Can't even make jokes about groups without being called on it and I don't regard it as a personal attack because it is a group joke. Another case, e.g., is you're not supposed to use gender if you say salesgirl, now you're supposed to say sales clerk. Hiding jokes and gender isn't going to make them less of a joke or make males and females any more gender neutral. Better to be out in the open with it (btw there are females that are proud to be identified by their gender).

On the other hand I think most of the complaints are made by groups, not individuals which carries less weight with me. Exactly why individuals would complain about jokes which are obviously jokes and not meant to be taken seriously is beyond me. Maybe someone can explain why they get offended by jokes.

To mention, this type of thread has been done before. Time has passed with new members aboard and maybe the mood in the US has shifted (along with other countries).

What say you to this?

PhilX

[Ruskin]

It tends to be used by moderate and casual racists, bigots and xenophobes to silence anyone that have a reasonable objection to something they might say. Like say Jeremy Clarkson would complain about Political Correctness.

[Spiral Out]

Maybe someone can explain why they get offended by jokes.

Offense is only taken when there is a grain of truth to it.

What say you to this?

I say express yourself as you wish and take the flak like a boss. Ultimately, if you're not going to say what's on your mind then why say anything at all? If you're not being true to yourself then your just being someone else's bitch.

[Sy Borg]

Consideration. I don't like people dumping on me so I try not to dump on others. To me it's about cutting people a bit of slack either way. We don't want to be tied in verbal straitjackets by hyper sensitivity and neither do we want to be unfairly picked on.

I feel the most sensible path is for everyone to keep a sense of humour about the little things but not buy into prejudice, to choose your battles and let the other stuff fly. It takes acceptance of diversity and a basic sense of general goodwill.

Spiral, while "the truth hurts" may apply in some instances but untruths are even more hurtful - to be misrepresented and not in a position to clarify falsehoods.

[Theophane]

I can justify it, but not its overuse.

Something that is beneficial in small amounts becomes toxic in larger amounts. The toxicity increases as the usage increases. We sometimes add salt to our food to taste, but a plateful of salt is completely inedible. A capful of cough-syrup soothes a cough, but to drink the entire bottle of cough-syrup is possibly fatal.

[Spiral Out]

Spiral, while "the truth hurts" may apply in some instances but untruths are even more hurtful - to be misrepresented and not in a position to clarify falsehoods.

Offense is only taken when there is some truth to the concept. Otherwise it's just an easily dismissed absurdity.

Stereotypes, for example, only exist as stereotypes because there is a somewhat significant degree of truth in them. When expressed, these stereotypes or any other exaggeration of traits, become offensive to those who are perhaps unnecessarily sensitive about their particular condition of existence, whatever that condition may be.

So what is an "untruth"? What percentage of truth need the expression possess in order to not be an untruth? And why would untruths be offensive anyway? Are those not the easily dismissed absurdities I had proposed above?

[Logic_ill]

Stereotypes are social constructs. Yes, there is truth to it because that is the way that people have been taught to socialize. It takes looking at what caused stereotypes to be true in the first place to then behave according to our own perception of correctness.

I justify political correctness because it reflects the values of the day. Today, we are more aware of others concerns so we try to fit them into our thoughts to give everyone some sense of inclusion, equality, and to show our understanding. That´s fine with me.

[Wilson]

As Spiral Out said, offense is only taken when there is some truth to the concept, and stereotypes only exist because there is some truth in them.

But words can hurt, and hurtful words sometimes mean a lack of compassion. So people don't get an automatic pass with me. If you say something offensive, and you know it's going to hurt someone's feelings, you're guilty of nastiness.

No logic to it, but I kind of feel this way: If something's really, really funny, even offensive comments are okay. But if it isn't very funny or not funny at all, and it still makes somebody feel bad, you should be ashamed.

Political correctness is really stupid when it causes us to behave in stupid ways. For example, airport screeners are just as likely to select out a little old lady for further checking, and twenty-year-old Muhammad may sail through without a glance, all in the name of avoiding racial profiling by choosing at random, rather than by who's more likely to be a problem.

So in general, I hate political correctness, but that doesn't mean that you're free to say hurtful things without consequences.

[Philosophy Explorer]

Wilson said:

"So in general, I hate political correctness, but that doesn't mean that you're free to say hurtful things without consequences."

The problem is you can't tell with 100% accuracy how someone is going to react explicitly or implicitly. You can be praising someone and they would still take offense.

I still maintain that something said aimed at a group shouldn't be taken personally. I think political correctness has gone too far.

PhilX

[Spiral Out]

I think political correctness has gone too far.

It certainly has. Way too far. But the new generation will never know. Thus the constant march toward change, whether it be progressive or regressive.

[Wilson]

Wilson said:

"So in general, I hate political correctness, but that doesn't mean that you're free to say hurtful things without consequences."

The problem is you can't tell with 100% accuracy how someone is going to react explicitly or implicitly. You can be praising someone and they would still take offense.

I still maintain that something said aimed at a group shouldn't be taken personally. I think political correctness has gone too far.

PhilX

I wouldn't suggest going into an inner city neighborhood and yelling the "N" word. (This forum, afflicted with political correctness, wouldn't allow the term I typed in.)

You wouldn't do well, and I wouldn't blame your assailant.

[Spiral Out]

I wouldn't suggest going into an inner city neighborhood and yelling the "N" word.

Why an "inner city" neighborhood? That in itself is a stereotype, is it not? But there is truth to it, so it exists. Anyway…

I think that goes far beyond the necessity for speaking one's mind outside the realm of political correctness. That's just plain old being antagonistic and starting trouble unnecessarily. I would think that someone doing such a thing would be armed with an AK-47 or something since the goal there is not to get beaten to near death or killed (unless they're looking to commit suicide, which would be an odd method in itself).

I wouldn't blame your assailant.

Neither would I in that case. But that's not part of the political correctness arena.

An example:

Up here in the northeast, and perhaps in other areas of the country or maybe even in other countries, we call the little candy sprinkles that we put on our ice cream "jimmies" or "chocolate jimmies" or "rainbow jimmies". Now, I have been informed much to my surprise that the term "jimmies" can be taken as a derogatory term for/by a black person. This I was unaware of because I do not live in an area with a large population of black people, and because I don't sit around googling what all of the known racist terms are just to make sure I'm not using any that are out of the usual well-known terms.

I had a discussion about this a while back with my sister, who is very much an 'activist' type, and she says that I should not use the term "jimmies" anymore and to start calling them "sprinkles" just in case someone happens to take offense to it. I say that is political correctness gone amiss.

The point is, if I have no intent to offend anyone using that term, and which I use to indicate that I simply want to have the little chocolate sprinkles put on my ice cream, and someone happens to get offended by that term, then I say that is their own issue, not mine.

I'm not one to go around offending people for the sake of offending people, but I will speak my mind honestly without regard for their feelings if the situation requires it. If someone takes offense to honesty about the reality of this life and Human sociality, then, again, that is their issue, not mine.

The concept of being 'tactful' is a different concept altogether. That is primarily used when an agenda is to be achieved and there is a reliance on another party to achieve that agenda.

That's my opinion anyway, for what it's worth.

[Sy Borg]

Spiral, while "the truth hurts" may apply in some instances but untruths are even more hurtful - to be misrepresented and not in a position to clarify falsehoods.

Offense is only taken when there is some truth to the concept. Otherwise it's just an easily dismissed absurdity.

A logical error I see on this site regularly. Just because something is true some of the time does not mean it necessarily follows that it's always true.

Is a father hurt when a vindictive ex spouse makes false molesting claims or does he laugh them off? Is a girl hurt when a status-seeking boy tells everyone that she is an easy lay with false claims they had sex?

Being misrepresented can hurt. A kernel of truth is not necessary at all. Yes, "the truth hurts" but so do lies.

[Philosophy Explorer]

Here's a question. I heard that somwheres in the US, a customer got a cashier fired because she was speaking Spanish to a coworker. Was that cashier politically incorrect?

PhilX

[3uGH7D4MLj]

I'm in the middle on this one.

One the one hand, it infringes on my freedom of speech. Can't even make jokes about groups without being called on it and I don't regard it as a personal attack because it is a group joke. Another case, e.g., is you're not supposed to use gender if you say salesgirl, now you're supposed to say sales clerk.

I've never understood the problem with political correctness. It's just people trying not to hurt others, with speech.

Who is objecting to your racist jokes? Your friends. That has nothing to do with freedom of speech, it's peer pressure. Your friends are asking you to not be an ***hole because they know that racism is bad. Compliments to your friends.

Political correctness shows up in the government. Governments presumably want to treat people equally and respectfully, but it's mostly because politicians don't want to lose votes. It also shows up in commerce, where retailers treat people equally and respectfully because they don't want to lose business. That's why Don Imus was canned.

Makes sense to me, I've never understood the problem. People compare political correctness to McCarthyism!

-- Updated May 10th, 2014, 10:08 pm to add the following --

Here's a question. I heard that somwheres in the US, a customer got a cashier fired because she was speaking Spanish to a coworker. Was that cashier politically incorrect?PhilX

No.

-- Updated May 10th, 2014, 10:11 pm to add the following --

I still maintain that something said aimed at a group shouldn't be taken personally. I think political correctness has gone too far.

Give an example?