Purposelessness of Politics

[Dannycru88]

Starting from the idea that God is dead and there really exists no independent final arbiter and no ultimate plan for humanity I'd be very interested to hear people's thoughts on the implications this theory carries on the world of politics.

When it comes to politics, what would society look like if everybody suddenly became a moral nihilist? Have you noticed during political debates that the participants often throw their hands up in the air as if appealing to some Right wing or Left wing God for recognition? It's that almost transcendent feeling where you have no answer to a point that's being posed, yet you still believe categorically that you are in the right. You find yourself chuckling or looking around at other people in a kind of 'can you believe he just said that?' way but you can't seem to verbalise a response. I find this really fascinating, especially when you consider the absence of a final arbiter and any objective meaning to the terms right and wrong.

In this way, political debates can never necessarily end with a final points tally, as there is no entity able to perform this role outside or above the human race. Are we ever seriously trying to obtain some ultimate truth when discussing politics or is it purely a battle of egos trying to get one up on each other?

[Sy Borg]

funny OP!

Yes, we all seem to build a collection of assumptions filed under "Bleedin' Obvious", which is sometimes upgraded over time. These assumptions come from various sources, depending on a person's personality, experiences, proclivities and capacities.

I would like to be a centrist but I lean to the left, probably because when I think about GWB, John Howard, Stephen Harper, Tony Abbott, Margaret Thatcher, Vladimir Putin and suchlike I feel compelled to look to the heavens, hands in the air as though appealing to a centrist deity for confirmation!

There is no ultimate arbitration, not even reality. Say that in 2070 climate change and resource depletion hits a tipping point and things go badly wrong around most of the world. What are the consequences for those who fought against sustainable technologies when we could make a difference? Most would long be dead by 2070. The others will simply hide away and pretend they didn't do anything and lie about their position. Besides, everyone will be so busy just trying to survive that recriminations would seem trivial and pointless.

I expect that humans will become smarter, more aware and more honest with time, but not in my lifetime.

[Lagayscienza]

Are we ever seriously trying to obtain some ultimate truth when discussing politics or is it purely a battle of egos trying to get one up on each other?

I think it's a bit of both. A lot of people in politics are really there for the power trip but there are others who really believe that in politics they can change the world in ways that they believe are morally right.

When these latter, and, indeed, when ordinary folk talk politics, they may think they are talking about some ultimate moral truths such as the rightness of social security or the wrongness of having your private wealth taxed, but they are really only expressing their emotions, their feelings, on such matters and this is why there is no end to such arguments. There are no facts of the matter and so it is not possible to be right or wrong on such issues. And, as I have argued in other threads, I think this points away from metaethical moral realism and in the direction of moral nihilism.

[Aristocles]

Starting from the idea that God is dead...

Are you willing to work this backwards from assuming there is something bigger than the individual that makes us even question the corrupt composition of "politics"?

As politics is no science, it is the game of grey areas, it reduces to sophistry of manipulation for things the ignorant believe to be powerful.

In other words, when those that try to organize the control of society are poor philosophers, then those efforts are inherently wasteful.

(If it sounds like I am plagiarizing at least parts of Plato's work, then I am giving you my best answer).

Are we ever seriously trying to obtain some ultimate truth when discussing politics or is it purely a battle of egos trying to get one up on each other?

Yes, you are now. Either way, I argue the pursuit of this question aims at some "ultimate truth." In so doing, it presupposes something greater, something which most any politician is simply not generally trained to understand.

[ShrimpMaster]

The point of a politician (at least in the U.S.) is to represent the people or a group of people within the nation. Rhetoric and exaggerated body language are used by candidates to manipulate the public into agreeing with the politician. It isn't the other way around where a politician is appealing to God as a basis for their moral outrage. In the politicians eyes they believe the are the source of moral integrity. This is essential if we are to understand the 'mindless masses' who's only consistent value is inconsistency. The average person does not have the moral integrity to withstand a 'strong' politician. They are at the mercy of the politician with most exciting rhetoric and strong body language. Take Hitler as an example.

[Wilson]

When it comes to politics, what would society look like if everybody suddenly became a moral nihilist?

The idea behind moral nihilism (I'm not a fan of the term, myself) is that there is no absolute, universal morality - but it doesn't imply that individuals don't have strong moral feelings. I guess I'm a moral nihilist (I don't believe in moral "facts"), but I have very definite ideas about every moral issue you can imagine. Just wanted to make sure you understood the distinction.

[Lagayscienza]

I think that's right, Wilson. Moral nihilists are not moral monsters.


In fact, recognizing that morality is only human can make us all the more consciously moral. And recognizing that the universe appears to be meaningless and purposeless can make us look harder within ourselves for meaning and purpose.

Like, Greta, I hope that in time, as humanity struggles with ethical issues, all of us - politicians, scientists and ordinary people alike - will become morally smarter, more ethically aware and more honest with ourselves. I think that's our only hope.