Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

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Elder
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Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Elder » July 19th, 2015, 10:22 am

I started this thread in response to Alias's brilliant post on the "morality of unemployment insurance" thread. onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtop ... p;start=15 Post #26

Imagine that all of our members went on a ‘galactic cruise’ in a giant spaceship. Suppose the spaceship crash-landed on a far away uninhabited planet, beyond the hope of rescue from, and even communication with, Earth. There is no hope that the spaceship can ever be repaired and take off again.

The Planet is very much like Earth: benign climate, plenty of wildlife and natural resources.

Let's assume that in our large community every skill necessary for comfortable survival is represented. There is no one in position of authority because the crew died in the crash and the others are all equal. The credit cards and whatever small bills we have in our pockets are meaningless. There are lots of tools and basic raw material piled up in the spaceship (miraculously intact) and some generators to get us started. But nobody owns any of it.

Now imagine: we gather together in a big circle and try to figure out what to do next, how to organize ourselves. Any suggestions about how it would (should???) go? (Now I realize that the topic lends itself to a lot of fun, banter and hilarity, and I am looking forward to it. But I also hope there will be an interesting and meaningful discussion on possible options and outcomes.)
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Greta
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Greta » July 19th, 2015, 8:20 pm

Usually, those of average intelligence claim leadership because they can garner the most support. They also tend to have more practical skills than intellectuals in survival situations (the opportunity costs of exploring abstractions). This dynamic has been observed in children organising games, where the rules devised by intelligent children tend to be less understood by most of their peers than those who are on the "smart side of average".

However, with this particular group things would be different 1) because everyone is pretty smart and 2) nobody would follow any one other.

So we'd be more likely to create a Lord of the Flies type scenario, theists v atheists. The theists would declare war on the atheists and attempt to clear the way for God's People to create a New Christian Utopia.

However, the atheists, using their superior technological smarts, would overpower the theists and control them. The theists would then then engage in nonstop terrorist campaigns, refusing to buckle under. At that point there would be an unstable balance, cut and thrust. Peace would only become possible once each party had expended their excess energy (just like the universe). At that point we'd have fallen into a vastly underestimated and maligned state of being that is more responsible for the promotion of peace than any other - world weary exhaustion.
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Elder
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Elder » July 19th, 2015, 8:34 pm

What if religion wouldn't be an issue?

Imagine two spaceships: one with all the theists landing on one planet, and another spaceship, with everyone else, landing on another.

Can you describe how your planet would proceed?
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Greta » July 19th, 2015, 8:42 pm

I would be alone on the third spaceship :)
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Elder » July 19th, 2015, 8:47 pm

It would become lonely after a while, never mind the practicalities, such as food and shelter.

There is advantage in human co-operation -- as you know.

The disadvantages are also obvious -- such as organization and decision-making.
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Greta » July 19th, 2015, 9:17 pm

That was an expression that I sometimes feel alone here amongst so many others who are strong in their theism or atheism.
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Elder » July 19th, 2015, 9:31 pm

Sorry, Greta, there is no spaceship for agnostics.

You have to choose which spaceship you want to be on! :lol:

When I started this thread, I was hoping we could talk about social organization -- never imagined that religion would enter into it this early!

Maybe it is not too late yet to talk about non-religious options and decisions that would need to be made?

On other forums where I started this thread, there was a lively discussion about those issues, as well as a lot of bantering and role playing.

It could be a lot of fun. :)
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Greta » July 20th, 2015, 1:58 am

Elder, I couldn't organise a lunchbox let alone a society, so I'll leave that to others.
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Khanya solvitt
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Khanya solvitt » July 20th, 2015, 8:00 am

Elder, whilst you are all gathering in a circle to argue to convert everyone to become agonizing agnostics, I shall quietly creep away and build myself the over what to do next, and Greta is busy trying best four-wheel drive bicycle ever! It will be the envy of all! The intention would be to explore the Planet for exotic fruit, or ’transport’ animals (eg horsish, camelish or elephantish animals) which I can then barter for services rendered!

As the Jealous demand that I make them one too (so that they can participate in my bicycle expedition) so I shall demand them to build me a house! When argued that a bicycle is not as expensive as a bicycle so I shall argue that values are different now! In such a benign climate it is quite possible to sleep under the stars - whereas exploration of the Planet is much faster on a four-wheel drive bicycle than on foot, and those on foot would be left behind and would not be able to claim the exotic findings of those that are” fleet of bicycle” – much more important than a house if you wish to be in a bartering situation amongst greedy humankind!

Once my house is built and more cycles are being built so I shall demand a certain period of time for them to serve, cook and clean my abode in return! As Society grows so more bicycles needed – I think I am made for life, and will join the top of the social power hierarchy, which will definitely evolve! Surely any bartering system will decline into a monetary system – with the inevitable taxman wriggling his way in! Beware - with all this equality it may just be the Taxwoman!

If wondering “what on Earth” I am talking about I don’t know as I am now in space building castles in the sky!! All I know is that sharing is not necessarily caring so, do not ask to borrow a bicycle for I will charge you!! Often, if you do not own something you do not take as much care of it as if it was your own! If you want to raise a proud Society you must allow ownership or you could end up in a shoddy mess with squabbling over the fairness/equality of what you have as opposed to what another has which could lead to plunder, robbery, strikes, warfare, whatever….. we are pre-programmed for ownership! Total equality could mean that your husband/wife actually belongs to everyone!!

Sorry Greta, if you cannot even make a lunch box do not ask me for a bicycle! However, maybe you can clean and do my washing! Do not feel alone in you non-a/theist state as I too wonder Who/What the heck is responsible for my existence, for Life is sooo miraculous!

-- Updated July 20th, 2015, 8:05 am to add the following --

Sorry, that first paragraph does not make sense:

Elder, whilst you are all gathering in a circle to argue as to what to do next, and Greta is busy trying to convert everyone to become agonizing agnostics, I shall quietly creep away and build myself best four-wheel drive bicycle ever!

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Elder
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Elder » July 20th, 2015, 8:17 am

Great! Now we have one suggestion for evolution, even if it is a repeat of what we have now.

But, at least, it is very funny and imaginative, and I said before: "I can forgive almost anything for genuine humour!"

However, this space ship is filled with 'philosophers', many of them highly educated and intelligent, so I am hoping for a suggestion for a different kind of 'evolution', at least initially, at least for a group of philosophers.

Any takers? :idea:
I don't debate with the evaders, the hopelessly 'confused' or the too lazy to think -- life is too short!

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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Mark1955 » July 21st, 2015, 2:18 pm

Elder wrote:However, this space ship is filled with 'philosophers', many of them highly educated and intelligent, so I am hoping for a suggestion for a different kind of 'evolution', at least initially, at least for a group of philosophers.
Ah so you mean the B Ark as Mr Adams styled it? I'm with Khanya [and possibly Greta] getting on with doing my surviving thing while you're all talking.

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Elder
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Elder » July 22nd, 2015, 7:56 am

So far we have had one non-boring 'philosopher' make a suggestion.

Are there more?

This thread could be a lot of fun for people with imagination, creativity, humour and even constructive ideas.
I don't debate with the evaders, the hopelessly 'confused' or the too lazy to think -- life is too short!

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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Alec Smart » July 24th, 2015, 4:19 pm

Elder wrote: You have to choose which spaceship you want to be on! :lol:
Mmmm, let me think. Which spaceship are you on?
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by LuckyR » July 25th, 2015, 7:42 pm

My first thought would be: well, I guess we've got to populate the planet, let's get started...

But seriously, I think a big problem would be the overabundance of chiefs and the lack of any indians. If by "tools" you mean that since we would have mastered interstellar travel and that actually performing "work" would not have to be accomplished by the working class, then we could all luxurate in the white collar class and stamp out small problems as the tools did all of the heavy lifting. Perhaps it would end up like a high tech campout in a pristine wilderness.
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Re: Spaceship OnlinePhilosophyClub

Post by Alec Smart » July 25th, 2015, 7:47 pm

LuckyR wrote: I think a big problem would be the overabundance of chiefs and the lack of any indians.
I think you would find that the role of chief would already have been (self) allocated.
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