"Love Trumps Hate"

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Wilson
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Wilson »

Incidentally, folks, you who are not following the primaries closely, Trump had a bad week. He said something to the effect that if abortion becomes illegal, there should be punishment for the woman, plus some additional silly crap. So it's looking like he may well not be a first ballot nominee, which means that someone other than the front runner (Trump) may actually get the Republican nomination and run against (presumably) Hillary. It's true that Trump is rather hideous and embarrassing as hell for most of us Americans, but the guy in second place for the Republicans, Ted Cruz, is even scarier. He's not as stupid as Trump but is a born-again Christian conservative who is actually hated by almost everyone in his party - the most unlikeable candidate in history, maybe - but as a right-wing zealot would be even more dangerous than a know-nothing Trump. Either of those guys, watch out, world. Chances are that Hillary will win the Democratic nomination and will defeat the Republican, but if she doesn't, we're all in deep trouble.

It's also possible that the Republicans will manage to nominate someone other than the two leading weirdos - someone more normal than those two in a contested convention - John Kasich or Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, both of whom have some screwy ideas but wouldn't be disastrous. So it's not hopeless, world.
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Sy Borg
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Sy Borg »

It would seem that women's lives are again men's playthings for Republican candidates this election. GWB saved himself in the 2004 election by attacking gays rights. Since that well of fear has largely been drawn upon for now, they shift to abortion again. Conservative election campaigns seem to largely toggle between abortion, gays and foreigners - whichever bogey has the least stale fear factor of the moment. So it goes.
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated—Gandhi.
Steve3007
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Steve3007 »

Greta:
Conservative election campaigns seem to largely toggle between abortion, gays and foreigners - whichever bogey has the least stale fear factor of the moment.
And the evil socialist government interfering in people's lives by doing terrible things like trying to ensure that they have healthcare. "Big Government" generally.

Wison:

On the particular furor that you mention I'm in the strange position where I feel I must defend Trump. When I saw the interview in which he said that women should be punished for having abortions is seemed pretty clear to me that he didn't really think that but was just doing his usual thing of opening his mouth without first engaging his brain. I think what he probably meant all along was that if abortion was illegal then doctors carrying out abortions should be punished. Arguably that's not so much a question about abortion but a general question about whether laws, once passed, should be enforced. Saying "yes they should" doesn't seem massively controversial. He seems less radical on abortion than Cruz.

However, as it does seem to have done him some damage, as they've finally found some kryponite to use against him, maybe the end justifies the means? I don't know. I agree that Cruz seems even more scary. I hope, for the sake of the 200,000 innocent people living in Raqqa, Syria, that when he says he's going to carpet bomb the region and "see if sand can glow" it's just what it appears to be. Childish tough-guy talk. Trying to sound as tough as the bigger boys.
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The Beast
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by The Beast »

Steve3007 wrote:Greta:
Conservative election campaigns seem to largely toggle between abortion, gays and foreigners - whichever bogey has the least stale fear factor of the moment.
And the evil socialist government interfering in people's lives by doing terrible things like trying to ensure that they have healthcare. "Big Government" generally.

Wison:

On the particular furor that you mention I'm in the strange position where I feel I must defend Trump. When I saw the interview in which he said that women should be punished for having abortions is seemed pretty clear to me that he didn't really think that but was just doing his usual thing of opening his mouth without first engaging his brain. I think what he probably meant all along was that if abortion was illegal then doctors carrying out abortions should be punished. Arguably that's not so much a question about abortion but a general question about whether laws, once passed, should be enforced. Saying "yes they should" doesn't seem massively controversial. He seems less radical on abortion than Cruz.

However, as it does seem to have done him some damage, as they've finally found some kryponite to use against him, maybe the end justifies the means? I don't know. I agree that Cruz seems even more scary. I hope, for the sake of the 200,000 innocent people living in Raqqa, Syria, that when he says he's going to carpet bomb the region and "see if sand can glow" it's just what it appears to be. Childish tough-guy talk. Trying to sound as tough as the bigger boys.

What is Kryptonite? Honesty and support. The question is who brings what to the table? The president can only have an agenda that can be supported and a little more in the way of a small personal agenda about the things that are important to him. What is true is that one candidate always brings the Bible to his meetings and the other brings his products and his knowledge of how to screw the taxpayers. If he does not know about abortion he does not care about abortion and to him it is the first thing he said: It is the women fault or choice. I felt he added the punishment part under pressure which speak to his character. He bent very fast for he was talking to a tough guy. He is always being the boss and that is the way he will treat the American taxpayer. He does not work for us. We will be working for him. Plenty to see what kind of boss he is. Maybe in his casinos. The more you take from gamblers the more he makes. We are a country of gamblers. I like poker myself. Mea culpa. What is a small boy and a big boy in an election? This is what interest me as you express yourself in the highest possible level.
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LuckyR
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by LuckyR »

Steve3007 wrote:Greta:
Conservative election campaigns seem to largely toggle between abortion, gays and foreigners - whichever bogey has the least stale fear factor of the moment.
And the evil socialist government interfering in people's lives by doing terrible things like trying to ensure that they have healthcare. "Big Government" generally.

Wison:

On the particular furor that you mention I'm in the strange position where I feel I must defend Trump. When I saw the interview in which he said that women should be punished for having abortions is seemed pretty clear to me that he didn't really think that but was just doing his usual thing of opening his mouth without first engaging his brain. I think what he probably meant all along was that if abortion was illegal then doctors carrying out abortions should be punished. Arguably that's not so much a question about abortion but a general question about whether laws, once passed, should be enforced. Saying "yes they should" doesn't seem massively controversial. He seems less radical on abortion than Cruz.

However, as it does seem to have done him some damage, as they've finally found some kryponite to use against him, maybe the end justifies the means? I don't know. I agree that Cruz seems even more scary. I hope, for the sake of the 200,000 innocent people living in Raqqa, Syria, that when he says he's going to carpet bomb the region and "see if sand can glow" it's just what it appears to be. Childish tough-guy talk. Trying to sound as tough as the bigger boys.
Oh I disagree. I think he meant exactly that. Why? Because though it is political suicide, it makes logical sense. In the abortion situation, if you consider abortion murder (which I do not), then the doctor would be the hired killer and the mother would be the person who puts out the contract. Everyone knows that in regular murder, the government tries to get the hired killer to "flip" on the person who puts out the contract in exchange for a slap on the wrist since the contract arranger is always considered the more morally reprehensible person.
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Grunth
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Grunth »

I see Bernie Sanders rally's tend not to attract protesters. Mmm, I wonder why that is. Could it be that Trump and capitalism supporters are more considerate with regard to free speech?
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LuckyR
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by LuckyR »

Grunth wrote:I see Bernie Sanders rally's tend not to attract protesters. Mmm, I wonder why that is. Could it be that Trump and capitalism supporters are more considerate with regard to free speech?
Just to clarify, do you mean by "and" that Trump supporters are also capitalism supporters or do you mean that the two groups (Trump supporters and capitalism supporters) are linked?
"As usual... it depends."
Grunth
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Grunth »

LuckyR wrote:
Grunth wrote:I see Bernie Sanders rally's tend not to attract protesters. Mmm, I wonder why that is. Could it be that Trump and capitalism supporters are more considerate with regard to free speech?
Just to clarify, do you mean by "and" that Trump supporters are also capitalism supporters or do you mean that the two groups (Trump supporters and capitalism supporters) are linked?
That both separately or combined as Trump supporters.
Supine
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Supine »

Wilson wrote:Incidentally, folks, you who are not following the primaries closely, Trump had a bad week. He said something to the effect that if abortion becomes illegal, there should be punishment for the woman, plus some additional silly crap.
Which if it is illegal it should be. The severity of the punishment will in part depend on if it is categorized as a felony crime or misdemeanor crime. Fetal homicide is already a felony crime in the USA. As of now fetal homicide is regulated a felony crime except in granting the mothers of the fetuses the privilege to hire medical assassins to carry out extrajudicial homicide on thew unborn child. Pagan Rome had something similar granting fathers the privilege to carry out infanticide once the child was born.

I voted for Bernie Sanders. And I will only vote for him or Trump or I won't vote at all.

Currently, possession of alcohol is not a felony but possession of cocaine or heroin is. In the USA. Not in socialist Portugal. Possession of heroin or cocaine comes with all sorts of punishments in the USA, such as being barred from Federal student loans for college (imagine doing so for a woman that aborted 3 of her kids on 3 different occasions, but not doing so for alcoholic students drinking beer on their duplex porch) and being sentenced to prison.

Something that is not illegal comes with no punishment. It would be illogical to make heroin illegal but to not punish people for carrying it in their possession. That would be like making it illegal to own assault rifles but never punishing anyone for owning one when it is illegal to do so.

Hence the idea of making something illegal or legal.
Steve3007
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Steve3007 »

LuckyR:
Oh I disagree. I think he meant exactly that. Why? Because though it is political suicide, it makes logical sense. In the abortion situation, if you consider abortion murder (which I do not), then the doctor would be the hired killer and the mother would be the person who puts out the contract. Everyone knows that in regular murder, the government tries to get the hired killer to "flip" on the person who puts out the contract in exchange for a slap on the wrist since the contract arranger is always considered the more morally reprehensible person.
I can see the logic of your argument, if you take as a premise that abortion is murder. But I see very little evidence to support the proposition that Trump is motivated by the desire to present logical arguments. He seems to just wing it mostly. And since that's what most of us average Joe's do, it strikes a chord.
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LuckyR
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by LuckyR »

Grunth wrote:I see Bernie Sanders rally's tend not to attract protesters. Mmm, I wonder why that is. Could it be that Trump and capitalism supporters are more considerate with regard to free speech?

LuckyR wrote:
Just to clarify, do you mean by "and" that Trump supporters are also capitalism supporters or do you mean that the two groups (Trump supporters and capitalism supporters) are linked?


That both separately or combined as Trump supporters.
Thanks for that. Well, let's see. What's the evidence? Since the most important speech is voting, are Trump supporters part of voter suppression masquerading as "voter fraud" prevention? Definitely some of those with the most to gain from Capitalism fall into that category (and are thus not really interested in Free Speech).
"As usual... it depends."
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Aristocles
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Aristocles »

Aristocles wrote:In the 2014 documentary "The Forecaster" (now very hard to obtain), Martin Armstrong predicts a candidate much like Trumps will win the coming election of the USA.
A he told ya so moment of reflection. Now, to see how the love trumps hate plays out...
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Ranvier
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Ranvier »

I will not speculate about the personal reasons for Trump's run for the oval office. However, Trump certainly revealed a fundamental flaw of our electoral system. Something that former President Carter recently warned about, before we even knew the candidates for 2017 election. Trump made evident that the system is a travesty, where even the least likely candidate can win if there is enough financial support backing his candidacy. Money elects the president, not the people. The country is run by finance and not by the concerns of the population. What we have is a Socialist corporate oligarchy.

-- Updated March 16th, 2017, 4:22 pm to add the following --

*2016
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LuckyR
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by LuckyR »

Ranvier wrote:I will not speculate about the personal reasons for Trump's run for the oval office. However, Trump certainly revealed a fundamental flaw of our electoral system. Something that former President Carter recently warned about, before we even knew the candidates for 2017 election. Trump made evident that the system is a travesty, where even the least likely candidate can win if there is enough financial support backing his candidacy. Money elects the president, not the people. The country is run by finance and not by the concerns of the population. What we have is a Socialist corporate oligarchy.

-- Updated March 16th, 2017, 4:22 pm to add the following --

*2016
Well following the money, Hillary should be president. So, no, money does not buy the presidency. The truism that (other than 2016) the higher fund raiser becoming president is a marker for success not the cause of that success (folks funnel money to the more popular candidate. ie they back the winner).
"As usual... it depends."
Grunth
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Re: "Love Trumps Hate"

Post by Grunth »

LuckyR wrote:
Ranvier wrote:I will not speculate about the personal reasons for Trump's run for the oval office. However, Trump certainly revealed a fundamental flaw of our electoral system. Something that former President Carter recently warned about, before we even knew the candidates for 2017 election. Trump made evident that the system is a travesty, where even the least likely candidate can win if there is enough financial support backing his candidacy. Money elects the president, not the people. The country is run by finance and not by the concerns of the population. What we have is a Socialist corporate oligarchy.

-- Updated March 16th, 2017, 4:22 pm to add the following --

*2016
Well following the money, Hillary should be president. So, no, money does not buy the presidency. The truism that (other than 2016) the higher fund raiser becoming president is a marker for success not the cause of that success (folks funnel money to the more popular candidate. ie they back the winner).
By a country mile Hillary's was the most excessively expensive campaign.
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