Apparently I made an incorrect assumption that you were implying that the winning side of the brexit vote had been fooled by their leaders and that you believe their vote was actually against their own self-interest. If that was not your meaning, then you have my apologies. So, do you have an opinion on whether or not the "Leave" voters actually voted against their self-interest? If so, what is it?LuckyR wrote:Well, anyone with an opinion about an issue in a jurisdiction that is not their own would be subject to the strawman that is your last sentence.
I am thinking your answer should be "Since I don't live in that jurisdiction, I am really not in a position to determine what is in those people's best interest."
And back to the OP, would you have any issues with denying the vote to people who voted to leave the EU? I am guessing that you would be against it denying them the vote?
Sorry I lumped you in with the apparently omniscient, all-knowing mind-readers who can determine, without a doubt, the reasons why an individual voted the way he did and can see into the future to determine that said reason will actually be against the person's best interest at some point in the future - which would entail being all-knowing about what the individual voter deems his self-interests to be.
Although, some on this forum would actually take exception to the last phrase there - some would simply believe that the masses are so ignorant that they (the masses) do not even have the capacity to know what is in their own best interest. And that being the belief, some on this forum believe that the masses should not even be voting - that the masses should be ruled by the elite.
(I am certain you will find several more of them darned strawmans up in their somewhere. )
-- Updated Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:48 am to add the following --
Wilson wrote:Gary, I have to say, with affection, you're not thinking clearly.
Hillary Clinton? No, I am not voting for Hillary.Wilson wrote:You'd elect a narcissistic, unstable, not very smart bully and braggart just to send a message?
Just because his empathy does not align with yours does not mean he has no empathy. It could be said he has empathy tempered by prudency. It is fine that some think immigration is the solution to the world's problems. It is also fine that some think immigration is not that. Unless one has a crystal ball, it is impossible to predict. My empathy lies with my countrymen first. And if even one of my countrymen is killed or raped by a non-citizen, that is too many. Others may not see it that way - they may be willing to sacrifice their countrymen in exchange for immigration. Wilson, are the murders and rapes acceptable to you? Are the murders and rapes a good exchange for letting immigrants into the country? Because in fact, it is an exchange. Trading citizen's lives for immigration.Wilson wrote:Yes, I can factually say (as sure as one can be of something like that from a distance) that Trump is pretty much devoid of the capacity for empathy.
I need to get some obligatory references to Brexit in here so we can stay on topic of the OP. I imagine many of the Brexit voters feel the same way. Have any British citizens been killed or raped by immigrants? I would imagine so. If some of the Brexit voters felt this was a reason to get out of the EU, then so be it. And it is a legitimate reason. It was important to that voter.
Where is it written that immigration is necessary in today's world? Any scientific studies that show beyond a doubt that the U.S. or the U.K. is better off with immigration than without it? You can invoke "America was built by immigrants." Yep, but America also had slavery. Just because something was done in the past does not mean it should continue forever.
Hmmm... reckon I will get a pass from the liberals? Maybe they will just claim I am gay? Seriously, there is no similarity in the attitudes.Wilson wrote:Personally I'd rather not die a "quick and spectacular death". That sounds like the attitude of a suicide bomber.
Wilson wrote:I do wonder why you think things are so terrible in America now.
I don't. Things are good, but could be even better. No place else I would rather live, not even the UK, although the exodus from the EU certainly sweetens the deal!
Well, get ready for it, because Hillary will win. Oh... you were talking about Trump. I saw a protest sign the other day - it said "Love Will Defeat Hate! F**k Trump! He can suck my d**k! Funny how love and tolerance evaporate when there are differences of opinion. The so-called "Love" people are just as big of haters as the so-called "Hate" people. And vice versa.Wilson wrote:We sure won't make America great again by electing a total weirdo.
And some of the so-called "Love and Tolerance" people in the UK are ready to strip the Brexit working class and Brexit old people of their right to vote? That is not LoVe, that is HaTe!
Tolerance and diversity, Wilson, tolerance and diversity. Go count to 10 and think tolerance and diversity. And please, have some empathy for Trump.
-- Updated Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:58 am to add the following --
Gary wrote:Sending a message that we are tired of the dem/rep bullcrap - and willing to suffer the consequences for sending the message. Sort of like the Brexit voters I suppose.
Sorry I was unclear. I wasn't saying that the "tired of dem/rep bullcrap applied to the Brexit voters. I was saying that whatever their reasons were, they are willing to suffer the consequences for sending whatever message they are sending. The second part of my sentence is what I was comparing to the UK Brexit voters.Steve3007 wrote:I agree with you in suspecting that a large proportion of the people in the UK who voted for Brexit did so as a general protest against government and politics and the state of their lives. That, to me, is a pity, because it was supposed to be a vote about membership of the EU.