Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

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Steve3007
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Steve3007 »

Fooloso4:
In Trump’s defense: no one knew it would be so complicated.
I presume you're parodying Trump's open admission of naivety on another subject - the replacement of the affordable care act. As everyone does know, national healthcare policies and multi-sided civil wars are indeed complicated things with no simple answers.
The United States and Russia prevented Assad from using sarin in 2013 (and Trump has been critical of Obama for the "weakness" he demonstrated in doing this). So, it is not as if Assad's use of sarin is unprecedented.
Of course, both Assad and Russia deny that use of chemical weapons too, effectively saying that it was a false flag attack by rebels. While on the face of it the balance of probabilities suggests that this narrative, like the similar narrative for the recent attack, is false I think it still demonstrates the difficulty in ever establishing facts with any degree of certainty in situations like this.

It's a similar situation with those thousands of photographs of thousands of (allegedly) tortured detainees that were (allegedly) smuggled out of Syria by the person known as "Caesar". If this level of systematic government organised torture and murder really is true then it's akin to the Holocaust in its severity. But we all know that the only way to show the world clearly what happened during the Holocaust was to completely occupy former-Nazi Germany, make movies and herd people into movie theatres to see them. And still some people deny it.

I guess details change but the first causality of war remains the same.

-- Updated Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:34 am to add the following --

Fooloso4:
I do not know what the best course of action should be. Diplomacy is always best, but diplomacy alone is not always enough. On the other hand, military intervention without diplomacy could be disastrous. There are just too many players. There is also the question of of the objective - is it to restrain Assad or regime change? And if the overall objective is to bring peace how are we to go about it? Bomb first ask questions later is bad policy. It will be quite easy for Trump to project an image of power, and that if nothing else is what his insatiable need for self-aggrandizement will accomplish, but what will rise from the rubble is a question that cannot be ignored.
Best course of actions depend on goals.

If the goal is the best possible long-term outcome for the people of Syria and the consequent reduction in the refugee problem (benefiting the wider world) then I don't really know the best course of action either. The only thing that is clear is that it's a choice between various bad outcomes.

If, on the other hand, the goal is to send the message "Obama was weak and indecisive and I am a strong man of action" and the long term welfare of Syria, and everything else, is irrelevant then I think the best course of action is probably what has happened and probably will happen: a quick big bang with some missiles and from then on, for every day that passes without a chemical weapons attack, a claim that it achieved its aim and that Mr Assad has been shown who's boss. I'm guessing we'll see some tweets on this theme.


But if self-aggrandisement wasn't the goal, as I said I also don't know the best course of action. The Russian argument that the Assad regime, for all its many appalling faults, represents the only hope of stability for Syria is not without merit, I think. It's difficult to see the alternative being anything other than an appalling mixture of anarchy and Daesh/ISIS/ISIL/IS madness.

I guess the best solution, if possible, would be for governments that help Assad to remain in power to also use the power that gives them over his regime to force them towards accountability and away from the (alleged) systematic use of torture, murder and arbitrary detention. I think the difficulty in situations like that is in managing the vested interests of the various parties - giving them a vested interest in moving towards the desired result. That's why simply taking a "punish the bad guys" attitude doesn't work.

As was found with the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland, sometimes, as hard as it may be to bear, some crimes have to go unpunished for the greater good. If we simply say that everyone in the Syrian government must be punished for war crimes then they have no incentive to do anything other than what they are (allegedly) now doing. May as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. If the hat fits, wear it. etc.
Fooloso4
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Fooloso4 »

Steve3007:
... what has happened and probably will happen: a quick big bang with some missiles and from then on, for every day that passes without a chemical weapons attack, a claim that it achieved its aim and that Mr Assad has been shown who's boss.
I am less optimistic. This may turn out to be a repeat of Bush’s “Mission Accomplished”.

One factor that is difficult to predict is the role Trump’s mercurial and duplicitous nature will play in all this. Does anyone, including Trump himself, know what he will do? Will this temper Assad’s and Russia’s decisions or fuel them? Will deliberation be possible for defense and Congress or will Trump continue to act on his own?
As was found with the Good Friday Agreement in Northern Ireland, sometimes, as hard as it may be to bear, some crimes have to go unpunished for the greater good.
Good point. I don’t know if the U.S. is ready to accept that.
Steve3007
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Steve3007 »

For the moment at least Trump seems to be happy playing Battleships. For someone who loves to exercise power it must be an intoxicating feeling to be able to play that game with real battleships on a global board. I guess it's almost impossible to predict whether the end of that game will come when he gets bored, or when he feels he can convincingly declare victory over Obama, or when Congress and/or the UN get involved and spoil the fun by slowing it all down or when the actions of the other players take the decision out of his hands.

-- Updated Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:37 pm to add the following --
Good point. I don’t know if the U.S. is ready to accept that.
Although someone might point out that lots of crimes go unpunished. In the case of the Good Friday Agreement I presume Sinn Féin and the IRA would claim that the crimes of successive British governments in Ireland have gone unpunished for hundreds of years.
Dolphin42
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Dolphin42 »

Another good thing about Trump appears to be emerging: He is very effective at scuppering his own policies by using his inability to strike deals and his policy of saying whatever comes into his head. The inability to strike deals within his own party, the people he should find it easiest to deal with, scuppered his changes to the affordable care act. Now his words on the subject of his order to ban funding for "Sanctuary cities" have scuppered that one. By calling it a "weapon" against those who disagree with his policies he makes it easy for judges to strike it down, just as by calling for a "Muslim ban" he made it easy for his immigration executive order to be struck down.

For anybody who does not wish any of Mr Trump's promises to come to fruition, this is all very handy I guess.
Supine
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Supine »

Burning ghost wrote:I think it is fair to say the bad and ugly regards Trumps words have been talked about at length here and there.

I am interested in the "Good". Whether you see Trump as a good or bad choice I am interested to here about what things you find as being at least partially "positive". I don't really think there is a singular political decision that can be made without some kind of relatively "negative"/"positive" consequence.

So I am asking also for those who like Trump to look for negative consequences of what they see as good (even if they are only minute in your eyes) and for those that do not like Trump to look for positive consequences (even if they are only minute in your eyes).

Thank you
I voted for Trump. Just as I did Obama his first run for the Presidency. Just as I regretted wasting my energy and time voting for Obama I've regretted the same now with Trump.

Trump was charged by me with one simple task. Just one. To improve US relations with Russia. I did not ask him to find a cure for any type of cancer or establish a colony of scientific laboratories on planet Mars. Sure, half the Republican Party was going to stand in his way along with half the party of warmongering and emotionally charged Democrats, but he seems to have underestimated that. He still could have stuck to his guns like Christ going before the Democrats and Republicans of his time in trial to be tortured, ridiculed, and them put to death to cheering crowds, for apparently "having dealings with the Russians" of his time.

Instead, Trump bombs Syria, in violation of International Law just as Obama and Hillary did before him. Just as many Republicans want. All the while allowing the country of ISIS to continue on running their economy in Iraq and something like 40% or 50% of the Syrian territory. Territory they got by expanding (no Americans, that is not Russia, that is your Allie ISIS who helps you fight the secular, Western dressed medical doctor Assad), and they attempt to try and expanding their physical territory. ISIS trades oil. Probably selling oil to US friends and not Russian friends. Because Russia and Assad are trying to reduce the territorial size of the country of ISIS. But Trump with the Democratic and Republican regimes are trying to make Syria, the Syrian people, lose their fight against ISIS and the hundreds of rebel/terrorist outfits with funny names that have flooded into Syria in hopes of taking the secular Assad out of power. The Sunni (that includes Saudi Arabia) don't like Assad because they view him as an Islamic heretic. His branch of Islam believes in something of a Trinity manifestation of sorts of the One God. Which reminds one of Christianity with its Trinity dogma. His branch of Islam even celebrates a few Christian holidays. :shock:

I thought this is the kind of tolerant, religion of peace, Islam that liberals in the UK and USA are constantly going on about is the true face and reality of Islam? But these same liberals believe like religious fanatics, giving bland faith, in the CIA and all their wicked lies to tell through their agents in the de facto state owned US mainstream news stations. So, liberals back bearded Islamic conservative fanatics causing war in Syria, probably financed by Saudi Arabia that bastion of democracy, religious tolerance, gay parades, and secular rule where women drive cars alone like Assad's wife drives by herself in Syria.

And Trump has embraced these evil lies about Assad and Russia so that the politicians in his party won't undermine him and bring his administration to a grand stall. So, he appears to have joined their club. Assad did not gas a relatively small number of civilians. Why? Because it would be stupid. The American backed terrorist did it. The people Trump now finds himself supporting. If Assad wanted to use gas as a weapon against his enemies he could deploy its use on mass numbers of ISIS soldiers and mass numbers of the actual armed combatants that threaten his government and himself. Some 4 year-old kids do not threaten his government or him. Bearded armed men backed by the American CIA are real threat for him though.

This bombing of Syria and condemning Russia in the process does the exact opposite of improving relations between the two nuclear powers.

A lesson about blind faith in the academic credentials and careerism of politicians can be had in the case example of the former President of Brazil: Lula. Perhaps the greatest President that nation ever had. And yet he had no more than a 3rd grade education and rose through blue collar labor. He claimed his success was by a simple formula: do the obvious.

How does that relate to Trump and the current political, international climate?

Trump is not doing the obvious which is reducing tensions between the two largest nuclear powers that could bring most evolution, most life (of all sorts of species) on earth to an end. Boris Yelstin a hardcore alcoholic (walked out the White House in DC, drunk, in his underwear trying to catch a cab at night to go get a pizza) activated the Russian nuclear brief case to launch mass nuclear launches on the United States in 1995. A scientific rocket launched from Europe gave off radar signatures of US nuclear missile. Russian military officers were unsure the US had launched a pre-emptive nuclear attack on Russia. But when the rocket dropped one of its engines, supposedly it gave off the same radar signature of US submarine launched missile armed with multiple nuclear warheads. The Russian military officers no longer were uncertain they were certain the US had launched a pre-emptive nuclear attack on Russia meant to knock out its electricity before it launched a mass wave of other nukes. So, they awoke President Boris Yelstin, handed him the nuclear brief case, and told him "Mr. President, we are under nuclear attack from the United States, you must launch mass nuclear annihilation of the USA." Roughly that.

Boris Yelstin came within minutes and possibly 10 seconds of launching the first nuclear war in human history. A nuclear annihilation of the USA. Which the USA would have launched a mass nuclear annihilation of Russia. Global nuclear winter would likely set in. Destroying crops and freezing the Brazilian Amazon. Bone chilling cold, famine, and disease would be the fate of human survivors across the world. Slow, brutal, death. No Obama care, no welfare, no Politically Correct world to hide behind, no police to call and rescue you as roaming hungry mobs of men run after you and your small son or small daughter to both rape your small child and then eat them. Cannibalism.

What gave Boris Yelstin pause was that he had good relations with President Bill Clinton and he could not believe the USA would launch a nuclear attack on Russia.

Good relations. Between two nuclear powers that collectively own something like 95% of the nuclear bombs on earth.

Fast foward to today. The USA is building missile systems in Poland that are nuclear capable so that they can strike Moscow in 10 minutes rather than the 30 minutes that both the USA and Russian nuclear ICBM's can reach their target city in. Combined with some British politician or something threatening Russia with a pre-emptive nuclear attack. I guess the Boris Yelstin case example in 1995 was not a sufficient lesson for college educated Brits and American politicians that nuclear weapons are not toys.

Trump would probably be a better head of a country if he only had a 3rd grade education and had mostly worked in blue collar factory work. So would the idiots running the Democratic religion and Republican religion. These college educated fools actually think a mass shooting in the USA is worse in scale than the nuclear bullets Russia will shoot at and hit humans, trees, birds, wheat, houses, electrical systems in the USA. Some survivors will go blind. Others will have their brains swelling inside their skulls. Others will give birth to deformed babies that are also mentally challenged.

But the industries that build military weapons need the United States to have perpetual enemies. Tax payers must buy their weapons of destruction so that some of those in the industry can keep making financial profits. Trump is probably going to make them feel real good. I guess it's better to destroy and maim people than to heal them and keep them in good health. So, better for the Government to buy military weapons with tax dollars rather than say... using tax dollars finance universal health care throughout the whole nation for all citizens.

I also don't care for that show boating Trump did by dropping "The Mother of all Bombs" on ISIS operatives in Afghanistan. ISIS is a country in Iraq and Syria. A government with real physical territory running an economy and trade. But unlike Russia that country ISIS sends out operatives into other countries to commit terrorist acts. But the CIA owned media in the USA won't tell us that. Because we might have to do something about that country rather than the country of Syria and Russia who are both United Nations member states.

You actually have to put ground troops on the ground to take territory away from ISIS. Shrink the country in physical territory. Dropping a massive bomb in Afghanistan on ISIS operatives in some cave does not do that. But it gets an American President lots of sports-like enthusiastic applause from American citizens.

Or Trump could not put ground troops in mass numbers on the ground for a conventional war against ISIS. He could provide elements of support for Assad and the Syrian military, as well as the Russians, in their battle against ISIS and allow the Syrian military carry the burden of the ground war game.

Trump is not doing the obvious.
Dolphin42
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Dolphin42 »

Instead, Trump bombs Syria, in violation of International Law just as Obama and Hillary did before him.
He didn't bomb Syria. He bombed Obama.

During the election campaign, when the world was pointing out that Trump's sole motivation in life is his own personal perceived success and ego, didn't that make you think just a little bit about what that ego might make him do?

We're all very, very, very familiar now with his rhetorical style - everything is either "beautiful" or "horrible", everything Obama did is, by definition, horrible and everything Trump does is, by definition, beautiful, and anybody who denies that or fails to point it out is pedalling fake news. We know all that. It's priced in, as they say.

So the combination of Obama's infamous red line, Obama not bombing Syria as a result of the first alleged chemical weapons attack and a new alleged chemical weapons attack is, for Trump, a no-brainer. It doesn't matter whether either of those chemical weapons attacks actually happened. All that matters is beating Obama by criteria that matter to Trump. Same with healthcare.

-- Updated May 8th, 2017, 11:40 am to add the following --

So I would say he is doing the obvious, given what motivates him.
Supine
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Supine »

Dolphin42 wrote:
Instead, Trump bombs Syria, in violation of International Law just as Obama and Hillary did before him.
He didn't bomb Syria. He bombed Obama.
Well, he ordered a missile attack on a Syrian military base.

I have no problem with war per se when a war is justifiable. Rwanda would have been a justified war for the United States. And an easy win. War with ISIS would be justified and an easy war for the US to win so long as it had the will to win the war. That country called ISIS has ground forces armed with US weapons but it has no air force and no naval power. So, the US would enjoy total air and sea supremacy. ISIS is less militarily capable than Iraq was under Saddam during the 1st Gulf War. As General Mattis correctly put that if ISIS were attacked in conventional warfare by the United States that the people of ISIS--The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria--would become come "fugitives," would be on the run. And Mattis has stated in interview that he would wage a war of annihilation against ISIS as opposed to a war of attrition (essentially, bothering and hitting your opponent enough times to wear them down and hope they tap out). By appearances--I emphasize appearances (like magic tricks)--the US Government has been waging a war of attrition on ISIS sense Obama led the nation, and now under Trump. I would argue there is reason to believe it is only an appearance, smoke and screens, void of any real will or strategic goal of actually eliminating the Islamic State (ISIS) which has terrorized even Muslims. The US media being owned by the CIA and NSA are part of the organs of that magic trick.

Now, Trump claimed as he ran for the US Presidency that he was going to destroy ISIS. How quickly that went away. In a perfect world US politicians would not be owned by financially powerful interest groups and military corporations. And they would--motivated out of morals rather than monetary gifts and maintaining their job and extra-ordinary power--point the finger at the greater evil in the battle between Assad and ISIS. That greater evil is ISIS.

If International Law, and the United Nations Court of International Justice, are anything like the rule of law in the United States that local and state police, and the FBI, ATF, IRS are supposed to follow, then the US Government as either a citizen or cop of the world ought not go around bombing UN member states based on accusations. No more than US Courts or the US Constitution allows New York City police officers to drive west to the City of Milwaukee and shoot down an accused man, or plant explosives and detonate them in the house of an accused man because a New York politician says the Milwaukee man poisoned his wife to death. Even the death penalty sentence in the USA requires a process that goes through the courts via the adversarial process. In the 21st century that adversarial process increasingly utilizes science, forensic evidence, to establish guilt or to exonerate. If the United Nations was worth a grain of salt, including its International Court of Justice, then all member states would enjoy equal protection under the law. All member states would be protected under the principle of due process. All member states could have their day in court were--presumably--they could be protected by "innocent until proven guilty."

But the forensic evidence likely shows Assad did not drop chemical weapons from from a plane onto non-combatants in Syria but rather that the evidence communicates a small homemade bomb, likely a pipe bomb, was used by some rebel outfit as a weapons expert at MIT (one of the most prestigious universities in United States) has said.

But the last thing the US Government run by Democrats and Republicans want to do is police the world by the rule of law, limiting their own power internationally to a rule of law greater than themselves, and to utilize science in attempts to establish the truth. The US Government wants to police the world like a corrupt sheriff in a small town in the 1930's Alabama. Being judge, jury, and executioner.

I believe Trump had too much faith in US politicians and under estimated how corrupt they and the US political system is. I think he thought the job would be far easier than what it is because he could just delegate authority and people would follow his orders. Like in business were one is a boss or CEO. But the political system does not run like that it is more akin to how factions in a mafia operate, with treachery and one or more Judas being placed in your own team, factions willing to bring the whole nation to the ground just to ruin you out of pure emotional hatred or some financial patron asking them to do it. Maxine Waters (or is it Walters?) misspoke, confusing North Korea for the Ukraine, because war, violence, nuclear weapons, armies, and whole countries are nothing more than toys to these people and they don't have to morally grasp the need to be clear on differentiating one poor country from the next. Tax dollars will keep rolling in to pay their impressive salaries irrespective how badly they run the country like failed business. Had she only had a 3rd grade education and worked scrubbing floors on her knees or carrying baskets on her head she might have felt more moral need to be clear on the distinction of North Korea from that of the Ukraine. The latter is partly run by literal white Nazis that don't want her as a citizen of the Ukraine anyways. The same woman who blamed the CIA for helping spread crack cocaine throughout poor black communities now expresses a blind faith the supposed holy truths the CIA gives in their stories about Russia and Putin.

Trump also under estimated the grip and power the CIA and Intelligence community has in running the government including the Presidency. He has now joined playing along with their team sense he has failed to beat them.
During the election campaign, when the world was pointing out that Trump's sole motivation in life is his own personal perceived success and ego, didn't that make you think just a little bit about what that ego might make him do?

We're all very, very, very familiar now with his rhetorical style - everything is either "beautiful" or "horrible", everything Obama did is, by definition, horrible and everything Trump does is, by definition, beautiful, and anybody who denies that or fails to point it out is pedalling fake news. We know all that. It's priced in, as they say.

So the combination of Obama's infamous red line, Obama not bombing Syria as a result of the first alleged chemical weapons attack and a new alleged chemical weapons attack is, for Trump, a no-brainer. It doesn't matter whether either of those chemical weapons attacks actually happened. All that matters is beating Obama by criteria that matter to Trump. Same with healthcare.

-- Updated May 8th, 2017, 11:40 am to add the following --

So I would say he is doing the obvious, given what motivates him.
Trump is like every other human on earth in that he has always had character flaws. Few humans are extreme on the one end of being saints or on the other far end of being radically evil like serial killers. Most of us humans have good points and bad points about our character but float more or less in that broad range of "middle."

I was always aware of Trumps character flaw revolving around his ego. Incidentally, Obama has a rather large vanity trait. That in part easily comes with caring about being clean shaven, well groomed, and well dressed. I am vain myself. In contrast to a number of scruffy looking, hard working, rural Wisconsin men I have run into. They come from a culture that places a lot less value on outward appearances.

Having a large ego and being driven to win can be used, harnessed, to have radically reshaped the US Government or the political culture, by Trump.

The problem as I see it is that he used his character trait as a business man to switch sides to win, being fluid and adjusting, that winning is the only importance and morality is meaningless if non-existent.

Look... I was aware Obama had a history of using cocaine and male homosexual interests looooong before this Pultzer Prize winning biographer published his new book. Frankly, I think the author might have even whitewashed (scrubbed out and also lightened up) Obama's personal history some. I'm persuaded Obama had more than male homosexual interests but was in fact on the so called "Down Low" in Chicago with black male lover in the Black Protestant Church the two attended. The deceased--murdered--man's mother insinuated her son and Obama were more than friends but sexually involved. That's what she insinuated. But all US Presidents have to have their backgrounds whitewashed to some extent. Publishing houses religiously believe in keeping American citizens religiously faithful to major US Government institutions.
Dolphin42
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Dolphin42 »

Supine:
Well, he ordered a missile attack on a Syrian military base.
Yes, but you know what I mean.
I have no problem with war per se when a war is justifiable. Rwanda would have been a justified war for the United States. And an easy win.
But it wouldn't have been an easy win against Obama because he couldn't point clearly to something in Rwanda that Obama failed to do and he (Trump) did. The alleged chemical weapons attacks by Assad presented him with a nice clear "before and after" situation. Before: weak Obama with his unenforced red line: After: strong decisive Trump. As I said, it's a no-brainer, given Trump's motivations.

The rest of your post appears to be forgetting this basic point. It's not about making America or the world safer. It's not about defeating ISIS. It's all about being better than the person to whom he can most readily be compared - the previous person who did the same job. Trump is motivated by the desire for personal triumph.

-- Updated May 8th, 2017, 4:07 pm to add the following --

The "before and after" situation was about as clear as in a washing powder commercial:

"We took two similar (alleged) chemical weapons attacks and washed one of them in your regular powder - Obama. We washed the other one in new improved Trump. That old powder just failed to remove those stubborn chemical stains. But look how Trump, with its new improved Tomohawk formula breezes through those stains!"

-- Updated May 8th, 2017, 4:14 pm to add the following --
I was always aware of Trumps character flaw revolving around his ego...
For myself, I'm not really very interested in whether we call this or that personality trait a "flaw". I'm simply trying to look for a likely explanation for a person's actions and see if they're consistent. Having a likely explanation for a person's actions is useful because it allows you to at least have stab at predicting what they're going to do when the next big event comes along. Of course the snag is that you don't yet know what that event will be.

Trump seems to me to be pretty rational and consistent, given his apparent motivations.

-- Updated May 8th, 2017, 4:49 pm to add the following --

(A bit more)
Having a large ego and being driven to win can be used, harnessed, to have radically reshaped the US Government or the political culture, by Trump.
Yes, that's true. But of course in order to use that self confidence and drive for that purpose he has to want to do it. Re-shaping the political culture has to be his goal. Obviously he talked about it, in the context of his "draining the swamp" remarks. But I think it was clear that he was only really doing that in the same way that the guy propping up the local bar does, to the bartender, after a few beers. It was just the usual "politicians are all cheats a liars" line that we hear from most people. The guy in the local bar obviously isn't really interested in fixing the situation, is he?
The problem as I see it is that he used his character trait as a business man to switch sides to win, being fluid and adjusting, that winning is the only importance and morality is meaningless if non-existent.
Yes. I agree. His words and actions suggest to me that his main motivation in life is perceived personal triumph and everything else is secondary. Didn't we all know that already?
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Wayne92587 »

Trump's Faith, he being a man of Faith, his faith in the greatness of the effect of not only his Health Bill but also his Tax Reform is over the top, is to far reaching, is way to euphoric.

Neither Trump nor his newly appointed Supreme Court Judge, in fact it seems that the Supreme Court as a whole, does not understand the purpose of the Rule of Law.

The Rule of Law is not to rule under the guise of Moral Law, the Law of the Church.

"The Rule of Law", is based upon the wants and needs of the majority, not the Selfish Righteousness of a few, the Church.

Moral Law has failed miserably in it's attempt to bring order to the Chaos born of Self-ish Righteousness.

Would, that I could I would destroy Moral Law, the Law of the Church.

Trump did not win the Election, the Girl won the Election for Trump.

I say to the Pharos, the Pharaoh, The Church; Set the People Free!
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Gertie »

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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Spectrum »

Trump has his strengths and weaknesses but to me what is of the highest priority [criticalness to humanity] is the need to stop of the infiltration and infection of the very malignant viruses of the evil ideology of Islam [part not whole] within the White House and government.

As I had always stated a part of Islam's ideology is VERY evil and it influence a certain % [not all] of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence in the world.

Based purely on this prioritize perspective of mine I am very glad Trump has won and he has got rid of all the evil Islamic elements/pests from the White House.
Whatever other weaknesses that Trump has, he need to improve on that and I believe his facing of reality has forced him to change many of his previous [raw and crude] views and behaviors.

I believe it was Obama's [having a Muslim father and kin] soft spot for Islam, kow-towing to the Saudi King and displaying subservience to Islam that enable those % of evil prone Muslims to be more bold in pushing their evil agenda. If Clinton has won, the Islamization of the White House and US Government would have gotten worse and worse.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Sy Borg »

It would help if he didn't fire anyone checking on his Russian affiliations. Many comparisons being made with Nixon now.
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Dolphin42 »

Yes, the so called "Saturday Night Massacre". But I am kind of warming to Trump for his honest dishonesty. The "you're fired" letter that was presented to Comey contained that paragraph asserting that Comey had told Trump privately three times that he was not being investigated, and it was so obviously inserted at the insistence of Trump that it was just funny. A bit like adding: "P.S. This is absolutely nothing to do with the whole Russia thing and anyone who says it is is a big fat fake news liar.". The president doth protest too much, methinks.

Perhaps, as long as the lies are so transparent that everyone can see them for what they are, they aren't really lies? I think we feel we've all got to know Trump pretty well now and it's all priced in.

-- Updated May 11th, 2017, 9:10 am to add the following --

Spectrum:
Trump has his strengths and weaknesses but to me what is of the highest priority [criticalness to humanity] is the need to stop of the infiltration and infection of the very malignant viruses of the evil ideology of Islam [part not whole] within the White House and government.
In the past you've made some quite persuasive seeming arguments about the ease with which Islam can be used by some people to (in their minds) justify murder, loot, rape and despotism. But then you post things like this post, which suggest you're actually quite barkng. Which is a pity.
I believe it was Obama's [having a Muslim father and kin] soft spot for Islam, kow-towing to the Saudi King and displaying subservience to Islam...
You're presumably aware of the history of Aramco? The longstanding relationship between the US and Saudi Arabia, dating back to FDR, is about business. Nothing to do with religion. Was FDR influenced by his Muslim father?
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Supine »

Spectrum wrote:Trump has his strengths and weaknesses but to me what is of the highest priority [criticalness to humanity] is the need to stop of the infiltration and infection of the very malignant viruses of the evil ideology of Islam [part not whole] within the White House and government.

As I had always stated a part of Islam's ideology is VERY evil and it influence a certain % [not all] of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence in the world.

Based purely on this prioritize perspective of mine I am very glad Trump has won and he has got rid of all the evil Islamic elements/pests from the White House.
Whatever other weaknesses that Trump has, he need to improve on that and I believe his facing of reality has forced him to change many of his previous [raw and crude] views and behaviors.

I believe it was Obama's [having a Muslim father and kin] soft spot for Islam, kow-towing to the Saudi King and displaying subservience to Islam that enable those % of evil prone Muslims to be more bold in pushing their evil agenda. If Clinton has won, the Islamization of the White House and US Government would have gotten worse and worse.
You are right that Obama's sympathies where and remain with Islam far and over Christianity. He may be or have been Muslim. But at minimum those are where his sympathies are.

I's rather have Government people held accountable to the law just as Joe Blow is. If Joe Blow knowingly gives guns and aid to Al Qaida members then Joe Blow goes to prison on felony convictions. But Obama and Hillary Clinton stood and stand above the law, along with all their other corporate and government cohorts in crime, and gave Al Qaida members guns, bombs, and money and whatever other aid to topple Gaddafi.

But but US financial interests are too tied to Saudi Arabia and makes it unlikely Trump or anyone will part ways with that nation. A nation running a religious war to topple those it regards as heretics, non-Sunni, in the Arab world. I looked at Assad's branch of Islam and apparently they celebrates a few Christian holidays and believe in 3 "emnations" of the 1 God. Has a familiar tone or kind of a relation to Christianity.

Then there are the factions trying to topple him (aside from the Islamic State of Syria and Iraq which controls 30% or more of Syrian territory). They are many with funny sounding names. Funny sounding names like "Shinning light of Star." I made that up but just to give an example. Basically, they are like the Crips, Bloods, or New York street gangs with former names like "Ball Busters," that are financed by Saudi Arabia to topple the Islamic power of Alewites in Syria. Why? Because those factions are mad that women can't drive in Syria but they can in Saudi Arabia? I doubt that given it is the reverse.

But Trump is now on the American oligarchs and New World Order side, so, he will do the bidding of Saudi Arabia, British monarch, and the corrupt Western oligarchs. It's like living in Nazi Germany (the USA). But I am happy to see him fire that corrupt FBI multimillionaire head. He has the character trait of a Chicago cop planting evidence on innocent inner-city kids.
Dolphin42
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Re: Trump - The good, the bad and the ugly

Post by Dolphin42 »

But Trump is now on the American oligarchs and New World Order side, so, he will do the bidding of Saudi Arabia, British monarch, and the corrupt Western oligarchs.
Is it just the British monarch? Aren't there any other monarchies that secretly control the US government?

-- Updated May 11th, 2017, 2:48 pm to add the following --

King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands looks a bit sus to me.
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