Marxism survives

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Togo1
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Joined: September 23rd, 2015, 9:52 am

Re: Marxism survives

Post by Togo1 »

Fan of Science wrote:Wages are rising, for those with job skills. Raises are falling for the uneducated in the work-force, not the educated. That's been the case for a number of decades now.
Which is what I said. That companies are competing with eachother to pay lower wages, driving the wage down for those least able to resist this process - less well educated workers. Meanwhile wealth is being concentrated at the top end.

I wpuld note that is it education that appears to be the issue, rather than job skills. Skilled blue collar workers with high job skills are also seeing falling wages. Entry level wages for elite white collar professions are still rising.
Fan of Science wrote:To demand that unskilled workers receive a rise in pay is nonsensical. You want to increase their pay, then advocate for positions that increase their job skills.


No matter how well educated a workforce is, there will always need to be someone who delivers your pizza, or cleans your streets. Constantly reducing their wages isn't sustainable. Where does it stop?

I'd also note that any company that put 50cents on each pizza, and gave the difference to their delivery people, would attract the bulk of the best people in that area. Their pizzas would be delivered fresher, hotter, faster. Why do you suppose that doesn't happen? Why do you suppose that these companies all adopt the same working conditions, even though they're supposedly in competion? As I said, it's easier for them to compete against the customer, by agreeing to serve pizza at a common (low) standard, and limiting competition only to certain well-identified areas, like price, or free sides.

I notice I didn't get an example of central government driving wealth inequality. Was that particular point perhaps not based on reality after all?
Fan of Science
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Joined: May 26th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Re: Marxism survives

Post by Fan of Science »

You completely ignored the skill and educational levels of workers when you initially made a blanket indictment against capitalism. It's false that capitalists get together so that they can pay workers as little as possible. This is so obviously false, it's amazing Marxists still promote this idea. How much did Ford pay his auto workers? There are many successful companies that pay their workers above-average wages, because they want to promote good employee moral, and they want the best working for them. The pay for workers has risen throughout the majority of capitalism's history. It wasn't as if factory workers had better opportunities than they did while working in the early days of capitalism for a capitalist. Poverty was there and pre-dated capitalism. After the introduction of capitalism, billions of people are living far better lives, they have access to technological wonders that the wealthiest person a hundred years ago could only dream of having.

Unskilled workers simply don't produce much for society, so there is no justification to pay them a lot of money. To do so would discourage them from improving their skill set.

More and more, given technological advancements, society will not require those unskilled and low-skilled workers. Even some upper-skilled workers of today will be replaced by technology. One can bitch about capitalism while this takes place, or one could be more sensible, realize the problem, and seek remedies that can increase the skills of the work-force.
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Chasw
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Re: Marxism survives

Post by Chasw »

Idealism, including its offspring, is the direct product of the Enlightenment and has been the dominant theme in Western Philosophy ever since. Modern schools of thinkers are either for it in some way, or against it like the Analytics. Idealism not going away anytime soon and we must admit, Deutschland is its original source, Deutsch its mother tongue. If you want to pursue Philosophy seriously, you could do worse than becoming fluent in German and taking an advanced degree at the University of Jena.

Perhaps because of this connection to idealism, one could look to modern day Germany as the model for so-called Democratic Socialism. Its citizens enjoy material satisfaction, religion is largely forgotten and the economy performs quite well. Are they happy? Happier than Americans or Britons? Who knows, humans are not particularly happy to begin with, IMO. As Einstein put it, "Happiness is for pigs". - CW
The central question of human existence is not why we are here, but rather why we behave the way we do - http://onhumanaffairs.blogspot.com/
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Razblo
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Re: Marxism survives

Post by Razblo »

-1- wrote:
Razblo wrote:As long as people are prepared to eat themselves there will be Marxism. Marxism thrives on self sabotage and the human condition of envy.
Your quote is somewhat reminiscent of "you can't step in the same river twice". Both quotes are nonsensical, wise-sounding, and full of air.

My version is more pragmatic. "You won't step in the same cow pie twice." This does not exclude the capacity or possibility of doing so; but it gives a high prophetic chance to will, to motivation.

"As long as people are prepared to eat themeselves..." is that a condition, or a co-incidental occurrance? Such as, "as long as the river flows, the airplanes will fly."

"Marxism thrives on self sabotage" -- of the self, or of societal constructs?

"Marxism thrives on the human condition of envy" -- this I don't understand. You mean, Marx only came up with his proletar revolution idea, because he was envious of the richer people, who could afford more luxury and happiness than himself? That makes sense. It sort of creates an analogy between Marx and "Das Kapital" to between Hitler und "Mein Kampf".

Failed idealisms that base unsustainable economic and political systems seem all to ooze out of Germany.

Yet efficiency, orderliness, discipline, and tall, leggy women with light, blonde hair seem also to emanate from Germany.

Ideology, philosophy, religion -- fail, fail, fail.
Pragmatism, practice, efficiency -- win, win, win.

The Germans are a funny bunch. They only turn dangerous when they all in unison subscribe to the ideology of one of their thinkers.
Obviously a bit more description required. Hitler was, in effect, a socialist/marxist. An exploitation of the victim-hood mentality. The 'successful jew' was Hitler's bogeyman just as the 'rich white male' is the current bogeyman for a victim culture. There is much capitol to be made from victim culture.
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