Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
Post Reply
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by LuckyR »

ZoneOfNonBeing wrote:LuckyR - you could always offer one yourself instead of being a witness =)
Why? I thought you articulated your (my) thoughts quite well.
"As usual... it depends."
Fan of Science
Posts: 172
Joined: May 26th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Fan of Science »

In supporting the position that Islam is evil, notice that a number of passages in Islamic scripture were quoted backing up the claim while those who claim Islam is peaceful have offered nothing? Islam is most definitely not peaceful. This is based on the specific passages in the Koran and Hadith collections that demand violence by Muslims. Now, it is certainly true that some Muslims reject these passages and may be personally peaceful, but that does not change the fact that Islam itself is violent.

I wonder how many leftist supporters of Islam would prefer living under an Islamic country, where they would be denied equal political rights, denied the right of freedom from religion, and denied freedom of speech and basic due process of the law? My guess is not many. The left always prefers to live in a non-Islamic, secular world, while pretending that Islam is peaceful.
User avatar
-1-
Posts: 878
Joined: December 1st, 2016, 2:23 am

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by -1- »

ZoneOfNonBeing wrote:I have thought about it. You are now outsourcing your scholastic responsibilities. Be more robust in your explanation
I would need to brush up on Christian mythology to truly help you with this... and I am too lazy to do that.

The jist of the matter is that the bible describes signs that are tangible and noticeable, that show that the End Times are coming. When the End Times come, Jesus will descend from heaven, goes the Christian mythology and make and end to this world, and create a new world which will look like paradise for everyone. And of course J will also judge the souls, living and dead, and send them to their proper places (hell or heaven).

There are passages which describe the end times that we see in today's world. One is that "people will be ablet to talk to each other from one end of the world to the other end." Many other signs exists, which are reality now, and to Christians, they are prophecies come true as written in the bible.

One of the events in End Times is a thousand-year-long rule of the world by Satan. There is another sign, that Israel has to be revived, and sustained for a period of time. ******

***** Please note that I am not a bible expert, and I don't subscribe to the Christian faith. Please note that because of that, what I present as facts of Christian mythology, may be off the target for accuracy, for content, or for value. Please proceed with care, and do not quote me for facts mentioned in this post. IF YOU WANT A MORE EXPERT OPINION ON END TIMES, PLEASE INTERVIEW A MINISTER, OR A PREACHER, OR A PASTOR. *****

So there are a great number of people in the USA who walk aroudn in complete bliss, because they figure they will see the End Times first hand, in their lifetime, as it happens. These people are full of bliss, happiness, and pride. And they NEED Israel to remain a state of the Jews between now and then... if Israel falls, then it's obviously not the End Times yet.

-- Updated 2017 July 13th, 12:20 pm to add the following --
Fan of Science wrote:In supporting the position that Islam is evil, notice that a number of passages in Islamic scripture were quoted backing up the claim while those who claim Islam is peaceful have offered nothing? Islam is most definitely not peaceful. This is based on the specific passages in the Koran and Hadith collections that demand violence by Muslims. Now, it is certainly true that some Muslims reject these passages and may be personally peaceful, but that does not change the fact that Islam itself is violent.

I wonder how many leftist supporters of Islam would prefer living under an Islamic country, where they would be denied equal political rights, denied the right of freedom from religion, and denied freedom of speech and basic due process of the law? My guess is not many. The left always prefers to live in a non-Islamic, secular world, while pretending that Islam is peaceful.
Charles Manson had the words of the Beatles carved with a knife on the chests of the victims his underlings murdered.

Now you're saying that quoting a text while committing an evil deed makes the text evil.

That is one of the biggest fallacies you have uttered on this site.

The Beatles and their songs are not any more evil after the Manson murders, are they? So there. Please be mindful of your thoughts.
This search engine is powered by Hunger, Thirst, and a desperate need to Mate.
Fan of Science
Posts: 172
Joined: May 26th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Fan of Science »

1 -- Wrong again, as usually. I never stated that someone doing something evil while quoting a text makes the text evil -- I specifically stated Islam is evil because it contains many evil passages that promote violence against non-Muslims. It is you who ignores the actual text of Islam and merely asserts, without any rational basis whatsoever, that Islam is peaceful. If it's so peaceful then how come in its entire history it has yet to produce a single Islamic nation that gives non-Muslims equal political rights? Freedom of religion? Freedom from religion? Basic due process? It's not just Islamic textual content that is evil, we see the evil nature of Islam in the Islamic nations themselves, which are barbaric. A woman in Qatar can be raped with impunity, since it is unlikely she could ever find 4 male Muslim witnesses to testify on her behalf. Imagine if Israel had such a law? Or the USA? How quick would you condemn such a law? Yet, when Muslim nations come up with this barbarity, all we see are apologetics from your side.
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Spectrum »

ZoneOfNonBeing wrote:@ Spectrum:

I reject the idea that foreign policy is a secondary motive in terror attacks. It is not that simple. Your analysis quotes one source from one terror group - as if all terrorism is uniform. It is not. The truth is: some individuals are motivated by a mixture of factors, and some organizations have different political priorities. To the extent that the U.S. government and the mass media are reliable sources, terrorists typically make declarations as to why the attacks were carried out. These statements provide us with clues about fighting terrorism. Consider the following examples of noteworthy Islamic terrorists:

Osama bin Laden (allegedly behind the 9/11 attacks) – “I say to our Muslim brothers across the world: your brothers in Saudi Arabia and Palestine are calling for your help and asking you to share with them in the jihad against the enemies of God, your enemies the Israelis and Americans. They are asking you to defy them in whatever way you possibly can, so as to expel them in defeat and humiliation from the holy places of Islam”.

Dzokhar Tsarnaev (allegedly behind the Boston Marathon bombing) – “…the bombings were in retribution for the U.S. crimes in places like Iraq and Afghanistan [and] that the victims of the Boston bombing were collateral damage, in the same way innocent victims have been collateral damage in U.S. wars around the world”.

Omar Mateen (allegedly behind the Orlando shootings) – “Stop bombing Syria and Iraq”.

Abdul Ratan (allegedly behind the Ohio attacks) - "stop interfering with other countries, especially the Muslim Ummah. By Allah, we will not let you sleep unless you give peace to the Muslims. You will not celebrate or enjoy any holiday”.
For the time and effort I have put it, I dare assert I am a near-expert on the Quran. I fully understand why I_SIS stated 'foreign policy' is secondary and' disbelief of the non-Muslims' is primary because that is Allah's words in the Quran. Based on this primary reason of disbelief as threat, Muslims will find all sorts of excuses and reasons [foreign policies, education, culture, whatever is zulimu etc.] to fight and kill non-Muslims. This is very primal and instinctual, i.e. get rid of whatever is a threat.

For all the quotes from the Muslims above I can reduce them to tons of verses from the Quran and their religious driven psychology.

Note I quoted the following verses;
2:216. Warfare [l-qitālu] is ordained [kutiba: prescribed] for you [Muslims], though it is hateful unto you [Muslims]; but it may happen that ye [Muslims] hate a thing which is good [Khayr] for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad [ShaRR] for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

22:39. Sanction [udhina: permission authorised] is given unto those [Muslims] who fight because they [Muslims] have been ẓulimū*[ZLM; by infidels and hypocrites]; and Allah is indeed Able to give them [Muslims] victory [naṣrihim];

*zulimu can be any offense by non-Muslims including drawing of cartoons
Elsewhere in the Quran Allah condemned those do not fight - as cowards - when Muslims' lands are occupied and where their fellow Muslims are oppressed. These also come under the umbrella term 'zulimu' [offense, offended, threatened].

As I had stated I can reconcile the above quotes to 3,400++ verses in the Quran that are related to hatred [in various degrees] of the infidel non-Muslim. It is a bit too tedious for me to bring in all the relevant verses at this moment.
I suggest you read the Quran [at least 20 times, me >70++ times] and as many English translations of the Quran [I refer to >50], then it would be easier for you to understand my points and the truths of Islam.

The idea that Islam is inherently violent is Islamophobic. One thing we must realize is that every doctrine or school of thought is perverted by individuals/groups at some point. We should not judge the doctrine or school of thought by its adherents, we should judge it by its principles alone. We do not judge Christianity by the behavior of Christians, now do we? If we judged Christianity by the actions of Christians, it would fall apart once we brought up Judas! The religion would become illegitimate immediately when we focus on the Catholic Church. That stated, ISIS and other terrorist organizations are not accurate representations of Islam - they are perversions.
This is a philosophy forum where rigor [strictness] to intellectual integrity is imperative. Any objective critique of Islam is not Islamophobic. There are real fears for many with the term 'Islam' [not Muslims btw] which is based on real evidence that trigger real terror in the mind of people.
To use the term 'Islamophobia' blindly [perhaps emotionally] when there is real fears associated with Islam and there real evidence [objectively] is an insult to the user's intelligence.

I have argued intensely, Islam [nb: in part] is one religions that is inherently evil [very malignant] and violent because it contain evil and violent elements that are open ended which triggers/inspire Muslims who are unfortunately born with an active evil tendency to commit evils and violence.

Christianity [its ethos] is not inherently evil nor violent. No Christians would dare to invoke God nor Jesus to justify their violence. There is an overriding pacifist Maxim of 'love your neighbor' 'love your enemies' as a command by God in the NT. Because Christians are so fearful of God to avoid going to hell, no good Christians would dare go against God's command in the NT. Else God will f..k them to hell on Judgment Day.
If any Christians were to commit evil or violence, that would be due to the losing control of their impulses or they were cornered and has no choice but to use violence [as with the Crusades] then ask for forgiveness and hope for mercy from God.

Islam is totally different from all religions. Allah in the Quran permit fighting and killing under certain conditions [these are vague and open ended], note "zulimu".
Those who are martyred in the cause of Islam will be accorded special rewards. This is why even drawings of cartoons of Muhammad are considered 'zulimu' [22:39] and Muslims are exhorted with permission to fight and kill non-Muslims in response to such minor offenses which are treated as a threat.

I'll continue with the other points later.

-- Updated Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:03 am to add the following --

@ZoneOfNonBeing
ZoneOfNonBeing wrote: And quite frankly, framing "terrorism" as a clash of civilization makes the matter seem intractable where it does not have to be. Hatred is not the same as acting out violence; and the entire point is - Muslims are now carrying out violence against the West as opposed to just passively hating.
For hundreds of years, they hated the West, but never got involved in terrorism. What we are calling terrorism is a recent affair - a direct consequence of Western imperialism since the end of WWII. We begin to see imperialism in the Middle East beginning when the US/UK supported Israeli forces against Palestine in 1948. Framing this as a "religious" matter only cloaks the fact that the War on Terror was a scheme to colonize the Middle East and extract resources (there were never any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq) - and the US supported Gaddhafi as long as he didn't get in the way of US foreign interests.
It is inherent in Islam to hate the non-Muslims for their disbelief. It is not only terror and violence but SOME Muslims who are evil prone will attempt to subjugate, dominate, suppress non-Muslims in various ways and fight/kill whenever they have the strength and opportunity to do so.
  • 35:39 ... Their [infidels'] disbelief [kufr] increaseth for the disbelievers [kafir], in their Lord's sight, naught save abhorrence [MQT; maqtan]. Their [infidels'] disbelief [kufr] increaseth for the disbelievers [Kafir] naught save loss [KhSR; khasāran].

    67:18. And verily those [infidels] before them denied [disbelieve], then (see) the manner of My wrath [NKR; nakīri; repugnance] (with them)!
Note imperialism by Islam from Spain to China started from day one Islam was established since 1,400 years ago.
Muslims are brainwashed with false arrogance that Islam is the most superior way of life and they should dominate all humans. This is why Islam cannot tolerate any groups that are strong and they will take every opportunity to take shots at USA [most powerful in the World at present] whenever and wherever they can.
  • 61:9. He [Allah] it is who hath sent His messenger with the guidance [HDY: hudā] and the religion [wadeeni] of truth, that He may make it conqueror [ZHR: liyuẓ'hirahu; prevail] of all religions [alddeeni] however much idolaters [l-mush'rikūna: infidels] may be averse [kariha: dislike].

    48:28. He [Allah] it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion [DYN: deeni] of truth, that He may cause it [Islam] to prevail [ZHR: yuẓ'hirahu] over all religions [l-dīni].
And if you do some honest and earnest research, you will find that the U.S. created Al-Qaeda and ISIS. What we are now running around in fear about over - this "ISIS" was created by the US to undermine and topple the Assad regime in Syria. These are facts; it is on record.
Note, as a serious researcher it is a imperative task I must cover all related knowledge to the issue. I have done that to the best of my ability.
I have read, it is true the US did create Al-Qaeda, stupidly and ignorant of the real ethos of Islam.
The US did rely on certain verses in the Quran relating to 'the Soviets were occupying Muslims' lands' to motivate the Talibans to fight [as a religious duty] the Soviet on their behalf. But the stupid CIA overlooked it is inherent in Islam that Muslims must fight as a duty against anyone who occupy so-claimed Muslims' land.
After the USA occupy Afghanistan, the inherent verses is still effective and thus the Taliban and Al-Qaeda turned around and fight the US and others who were in that so-claimed Muslims' land.

Any one who had understood the evil ethos of Islam would never seek any one related to Islam to help them in such a situation. [unless they have absolute total control]
It is the same with the Regressive Left at the present who are sympathetic to Muslims [re Islam] and invite and protect Muslims into their countries while they are playing victim. But once the Muslims has sufficient numbers, their Islamic duty will compel to fight [as a religious duty] against non-Muslims wherever possible. As far as Islam is concerned the Regressive Left and hugging a double headed snake which will turn around and kill them whenever the opportunity arise.

Note what is happening in Europe where Muslims are declaring so glaringly they don't want to assimilate with non-Muslims as commanded by Allah in the Quran. They then form their own parallel evil-laden community that breed evils [by SOME Muslims who are inspired by evil laden elements in the Quran] and rampage those countries with terrors.
In the video above [one example amongst thousands], note Linda Sarsour exhort the Muslim community not to assimilate with American society. Here rantings against the current US Government are merely secondary excuses. If not this they will find other excuses to keep themselves apart from the inferior infidels as per Allah's command in the Quran.


SOME* Muslims with a sense of religious duty will natural fight to kill non-Muslims because they MUST obey Allah and avoid Hell so they can go to Paradise.
Note *SOME, if 20% -300 million, if 10% = 150 million, a very dangerous quantum.

Testing My Theory:
If we can get rid of the Quran and Islam [not practical at present] then there will be no-more Islamic based evils and violence. No Muslims and believers will be able to justify any killings in the name of Allah and the Quran. There will not be any Islamic based anti-semitism. No one will be killed if any cartoons of prophets are drawn.

No doubt the ex-Muslims who are evil prone will continue to find excuses and justification to satisfy their violent lust in terms of politics, crimes, etc. But we will not find Muslims who are ever ready and migrating to fight anywhere in the World where Muslims are fighting, e.g. Syria, Iraq, Thailand, Philippines merely for the sake of an expedited passage to Paradise.
Politics, wars and national based aggression and violence will happen but this should be resolved on an international political tribunal [UN, etc.] level rather than religionists taking arms unilaterally as a duty to please Allah so they can go to Paradise.

-- Updated Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:53 am to add the following --

@ZoneOfNonBeing
ZoneOfNonBeing wrote: And I disagree that Islam is evil. If Islam is evil, Christianity and Judaism are also evil. We can all dig up passages to make Islam look bad, to make Moses look bad, etc.
I don't see Woodart stating Islam is evil. Note;
Woodart wrote:The only way to defeat Islam is to show Muhammad was an evil, vile man.
I have claimed Islam to be inherently evil because the Quran [being the core text of Islam from Allah] contained tons of evil elements that are likely to catalyze and trigger SOME Muslims who are unfortunately born with an active evil tendency.

Any ideology that contain evil elements has the potential for evil but we must assess the degree of such a potential.
To assess the potential we have to look at the evidence of real acts of evils and violence by the respective believers who are inspired by their holy texts and religions to commit evils and violence.
In addition we have to rate the nature of evil acts, low ( petty thefts/crimes, lying, the likes] and high (genocide, mass rapes, mass murder, torture, the likes] using various criteria and weightage.

Based on the above, the Torah has lots of evil elements but they do not inspire Jews to commit terrible evils and violence, thus I would rate Judaism as medium-low-evil. Christianity has some evil elements but because it has an overriding pacifist maxim I would rate it as having very low evil potential. As for Islam, because of the tons of evil elements in the Quran [& Ahadith] which is open ended and verified by real evidences of SOME Muslims committing terrible evils and violence in the name of the Quran and Allah, I would rate Islam as Highly-Evil.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
User avatar
-1-
Posts: 878
Joined: December 1st, 2016, 2:23 am

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by -1- »

Spectrum, How am I supposed to parse this sentence:

"67:18. And verily those [infidels] before them denied [disbelieve], then (see) the manner of My wrath [NKR; nakīri; repugnance] (with them)!"?

As you have written it, it patently makes no sense.

How do you expect us to read this:

35:39 ... Their [infidels'] disbelief [kufr] increaseth for the disbelievers [kafir], in their Lord's sight, naught save abhorrence [MQT; maqtan]. Their [infidels'] disbelief [kufr] increaseth for the disbelievers [Kafir] naught save loss [KhSR; khasāran]."?

One expectation one should have of writers on a philosophy forum is to make sense with their utterenances. It is even in the Rules.
This search engine is powered by Hunger, Thirst, and a desperate need to Mate.
Fan of Science
Posts: 172
Joined: May 26th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Fan of Science »

Actually, about every fifth line in the Koran is not comprehensible. This is one reason why Arab-Muslims do not like having the Koran interpreted into other languages --- the interpreters learn quickly that the Koran is a flawed work, not something divinely written, due to all of the flaws. Criticizing someone who quotes the Koran where the quote is difficult to understand is absurd. The criticism should be leveled against those who believe that the Koran is the perfect word of a perfect being. Islam has all sorts of absurdities --- like if the alleged Prophet were correct in the prediction of his own death, then he could not be a prophet. Or, there are certain situations regarding inheritance where it is impossible, mathematically, to carry out the Islamic inheritance laws. Not to mention the more comical claims like the Sun was found resting in some water on Earth.
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Spectrum »

-1- wrote:Spectrum, How am I supposed to parse this sentence:

"67:18. And verily those [infidels] before them denied [disbelieve], then (see) the manner of My wrath [NKR; nakīri; repugnance] (with them)!"?

As you have written it, it patently makes no sense.

How do you expect us to read this:

35:39 ... Their [infidels'] disbelief [kufr] increaseth for the disbelievers [kafir], in their Lord's sight, naught save abhorrence [MQT; maqtan]. Their [infidels'] disbelief [kufr] increaseth for the disbelievers [Kafir] naught save loss [KhSR; khasāran]."?

One expectation one should have of writers on a philosophy forum is to make sense with their utterenances. It is even in the Rules.
OK, I was not very specific on the verses. I had simply taken them from my copy of the Quran [Pickthall's translation].

My point was merely to show there exist verses in the Quran where Allah is very angry at and has high abhorrence for the non-Muslims. This is where the hatred, abhorrence, anger, and evil thoughts of Allah directed at non-Muslims are transferred to Muslims as a religious duty to follow Allah's thinking.

If I were to convey you the exact message I would have to interpret and explain that verse in its contexts and in the context of the whole Quran. Obviously that task would be easier if you were to read the Quran totally and have some basic understanding of it.

The quote is from the English Translation from Pickthall with his (parenthesis.)
The notes in [] are mine.
Pickthall [a reasonable translator] happened to use the style of the Biblical English.
  • 35:39 ... Their [infidels'] disbelief [kufr] increaseth for the disbelievers [kafir], in their Lord's sight, naught save abhorrence [MQT; maqtan].
    Their [infidels'] disbelief [kufr] increaseth for the disbelievers [Kafir] naught save loss [KhSR; khasāran]."?
The 1st sentence meant, Allah abhorred non-Muslims [infidels] because of their disbelief.
The 2nd sentence meant, the non-Muslims [infidels] increase their "loss" due to their disbelief. This 'loss' [KhSR; khasāran] is stated in the worst contemptible manner.

These verses [many more of the likes] support my point, the main reason why I_ISIS hate and fight/kill non-Muslims is primary due them being non-Muslims. Foreign Policies, etc, are the secondary reasons. In fact, Allah exhort all Muslims to hate non-Muslims [because they disbelief] as a religious duty!

Muslims [so called moderates] who do not hate and hold disbelievers with contempt are not performing their Islamic religious duty to the fullest. They will not get the best rewards as promised by Allah. Those Muslims who are moderates and do not hate disbelievers are compromising their 100% Muslims religious duty in accordance to the Quran. This is because their higher human [humane] drive are stronger than their religious drives in this circumstances. Their humane impulse is stronger and override Allah calling them to hate non-Muslims.
In a way these moderates are not obeying Allah fully and had used their discretion and going against Allah's commands.

The Quran is extremely difficult to understand precisely, but its evil ethos is easy to pick up [consciously and subliminally] based on the tons of evil and violent elements therein.

The Quran is difficult to read and understand not because we are literally incompetent rather the Quran was written and compiled by inefficient writers. The main intellectual problem is the Quran don't have a central theme running through it and the ideas are all over and haphazard.
One of my project is to rearrange the verses of the Quran with a central theme so that I can expose the evil elements and their intentions very clearly.
This demonstrate the Quran was written and compiled by human[s] as an all powerful God would not be so literally inefficient.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Burning ghost »

Spectrum -
These verses [many more of the likes] support my point, the main reason why I_ISIS hate and fight/kill non-Muslims is primary due them being non-Muslims. Foreign Policies, etc, are the secondary reasons. In fact, Allah exhort all Muslims to hate non-Muslims [because they disbelief] as a religious duty!
Of course the text helps to motivate them. Who tells them what to make of the text though? They are told by political/religious leaders not directly by the book. If it was completely true what you are saying then Jews would be out murdering non-believers too and looking at them as subhuman (that is what it says in their book after all).

The primary motivator for Jews is to ignore this part ... why? I should add it is VERY clear what it says. The weight of the evil surpasses the quantity right?

I am really interested to hear why Juddaism is not in the same state? The "evil" expressed in the Talmud is quite blatant. Is it more about emulating Mohammed? Do Jews try to emulate Moses? What are the differences involved here? Obviously we can point out that Juddaism has been "westernized" a great deal and thrived in democratic society.
AKA badgerjelly
User avatar
-1-
Posts: 878
Joined: December 1st, 2016, 2:23 am

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by -1- »

Who says Isis kills only non-Muslims? Most of their victims are Muslims. An overwhelming majority of them.

Who says Muslims kill non-Muslims? Most fights to the last blood in the Muslim Arab world is between Shiites and Sunnis.

Who says the Christians kill mostly Christians? Nonsense. Christians kill mostly Muslims (in the post WWII era).

Sunni, your shiite is where the sunni don't shrine. <- this is actually true.
This search engine is powered by Hunger, Thirst, and a desperate need to Mate.
Fan of Science
Posts: 172
Joined: May 26th, 2017, 1:39 pm

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Fan of Science »

The reason why the Jews are not engaged in the same atrocities as the Muslims is because the various Talmuds are not stating the same thing as the Koran and Hadith collections do. The fact is the vast majority of non-Jews don't even know what Jewish scripture actually says, mainly for two reasons --- 1. they accept the Christian interpretation of Jewish writings, and 2. the English interpretations are grossly misleading. This is because the interpreter usually substitutes an English word in place of the original language, that alters the meaning of the passage. This happens because the interpreter is unaware of the meaning of the passage and is simply making an uninformed guess as to what word should be used as a substitute.

We can add to this the fact most Jews don't seek converts, and they spend little time, if any, trying to correct misinterpretations.

In contrast, with Islam, Islamic apologists often try to come up with an interpretation that hides the violent passages in Islam.

In any event, right now the Saudis are imposing sanctions against Qatar, that the Saudis state will not be lifted until Qatar disbands a news network. This is an assault against freedom of speech, but where are the condemnations from the leftists? This silence from the left exists because the left has no problem with the death of free speech. This is also why the left now engages in threats and property destruction whenever a person who does not share their beliefs tries to speak at a college campus.

While the left hates freedom of speech, those so-called evil Jews allow Arab-Muslims in Israel to speak out against the very existence of Israel. The difference towards freedom of speech between the left, Islamic-apologists, and most sane people in the west couldn't be more at odds than it already is. This is why many people in the west worry about our rights to free speech given the rise of Islamism and the left -- two movements dedicated to the death of freedom of speech.

It's not as if the Koran or the Communist Manifesto promote free speech and equal rights for people, including Jews, as a goal.
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Spectrum »

Burning ghost wrote:Spectrum -
These verses [many more of the likes] support my point, the main reason why I_ISIS hate and fight/kill non-Muslims is primary due them being non-Muslims. Foreign Policies, etc, are the secondary reasons. In fact, Allah exhort all Muslims to hate non-Muslims [because they disbelief] as a religious duty!
Of course the text helps to motivate them. Who tells them what to make of the text though? They are told by political/religious leaders not directly by the book.
The SOME Muslims who are ready to fight and kill are influenced and inspired by:
  • 1. The religious schools and teachers who taught them the Quran [& Ahadith]
    2. Through their own repetitive reading of the Quran [& Ahadith]
    3. Daily brainwashing via their daily prayers of verses hating the Jews, Christians and non-Muslims.
    4. The general evil ethos of Islam.
    5. Their political leaders
    6. The groups they hang out with.
    7. Various other factors
Re 3, note this Chapter 1:7 of the Quran which is repeated 17 times a day by Muslims who pray 5 times a day.
http://www.noblequran.com/translation/
  • 1:7. The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace, not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).
The above Quran is published and approved by the Saudi Govt and a copy is given to all those who attend the hajj pilgrimage in Mecca. Not all Quran contain 'such as Jews & Christians' but the implication is very obvious as this point is repeated all over the Quran. This how SOME Muslims take the 'bite' and are seriously influenced to hate the Jews and Christians which led them to fight and kill easily when triggered by other killing and violent verses in the Quran (& Ahadith]).

The general ethos of the Quran and Islam [in part] is very evil and violent toward the non-Muslims so the SOME Muslims who are evil prone are easily influenced by anyone with the inherited evil intention or by their own reading of the evil laden verses from the Quran.

Personally when I read the Quran [front to back] intensely [done > 70 times] with a good understanding, I can feel the inherent evil potential and I [even non-Muslim but human] am also triggered with the feelings of being driven to kill non-Muslims. Of course I am very mindful of what is going on and my good sense always override the evil impulses. This point will give you how powerful is the evil forces from within the Quran.
55% of the 6,236 verses [> 1 in 2] are directed at the non-Muslims with contempt and such pounding of evil into the brain of Muslims [SOME] will likely drive them to commit evils and violence against non-Muslims as a duty to please Allah so that they can avoid HELL and go to paradise

For those with an active existential crisis who are the mercy of Allah, they [lack impulse controls] will be spontaneously driven to fight and kill non-Muslims wherever the opportunity arise. This is a glaring FACT!
Try reading the Quran intensely [with understanding] and you will definitely feel the impulse to kill the 'them.' [as in "us versus them"]
If it was completely true what you are saying then Jews would be out murdering non-believers too and looking at them as subhuman (that is what it says in their book after all).
With Islam I started from real glaring evidences of the tons of evils and violence by SOME Muslims. Then I dig deep into the proximate root causes of why SOME Muslims fight and kill non-Muslims.

There are loads and tons of evil element in the Torah and Talmud and thus the potential BUT the fact there are no real glaring evidence of terrible evils, terror and violence from the Jews. As such the quiet front from the Jews did not stir any interest in me to dig deep into the Torah and Talmud.

The primary motivator for Jews is to ignore this part ... why? I should add it is VERY clear what it says. The weight of the evil surpasses the quantity right?

I am really interested to hear why Juddaism is not in the same state? The "evil" expressed in the Talmud is quite blatant. Is it more about emulating Mohammed? Do Jews try to emulate Moses? What are the differences involved here? Obviously we can point out that Juddaism has been "westernized" a great deal and thrived in democratic society.
Note the difference between the Torah and the Talmud which is equivalent to Quran and Ahadith respectively.
Actually the Torah and Quran are the doctrinal principles of Judaism and Islam respectively.
The Talmud and Ahadith are commentaries, articles, and "blog posts" to explain the doctrinal principles. These are secondary and do not has any divine authority.
I believe there must some significant reasons why the Jews are not as evil and violent as those SOME evil prone Muslims.

I have given probable reasons why the Jews [as a matter of facts] did not commit terrible evils and violence despite their Torah has more evil elements than the Quran.

I am also interested in finding the exact reasons why the Jews are not SO evils and violent as compared to those SOME Muslims. To get credible answers I will have to read the Torah as seriously as I have read the Quran. This will take time. But because the fact is there are no significant* real evils and violence incidents from the Jews, I do not regard as worth my while at present. I will take it up as a project later since it has been raised many times.

* There are reported cases of fundamentalist Jews stabbing LBGT people in their parade and those who insist on occupying all of Palestine land because they claim the texts [Quran and Torah(?)] said so.


-- Updated Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:26 pm to add the following --

-1-
-1- wrote:Who says Isis kills only non-Muslims? Most of their victims are Muslims. An overwhelming majority of them.

Who says Muslims kill non-Muslims? Most fights to the last blood in the Muslim Arab world is between Shiites and Sunnis.

Who says the Christians kill mostly Christians? Nonsense. Christians kill mostly Muslims (in the post WWII era).

Sunni, your shiite is where the sunni don't shrine. <- this is actually true.
It is just a mere omission.
I have stated many times, I_SIS killed non-Muslims and other Muslims who they deemed as hypocrites [Al-Munafiqun] and apostates.
There is one Chapter 63 that is titled The Hypocrites,
http://www.noblequran.com/translation/
elsewhere the hypocrites are terribly condemned [including to be fought and killed].

To be intellectually precise,
there is no way Christianity per se condone and promote the killing of non-Christians when the overriding moral pacifist MAXIM is 'love your enemies' 'love your neighbor' 'give the other cheek'. No Christians would dare to kill in the name of Jesus.
Christians who killed and those who are pedophile [priests, etc.], they commit those evils acts due to their own lusts and lack of impulse control and it has nothing to do with Christianity per se. They will be punished on Judgment Day.
Even if Hitler is a Christian [by birth or conversion], his killings has nothing to do with Christianity per se nor Jesus directly.

On the other hand when those SOME Muslims commit terrible evil and violent acts, they are sanctioned by Allah as decreed in the Quran. Note 22:39 above as quoted and many other verses of the likes where Allah condoned killing and other violent acts.

Note the CRITICAL difference.

-- Updated Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:37 pm to add the following --

Note:
While I am VERY critical of Islam at present, I am not an apologist for any religion.
I believe Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but humanity must wean off ALL religions [with its negative baggage] on a voluntarily basis as soon as possible and replace them with fool proof spiritual methods to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Burning ghost »

Spectrum -

I am just glad you see it as something worth looking into. It may uncover some clues as to why Islam is in its current state.

I think we're all quite familiar with the news in the middle east and the basic history of the region. I know there are big problems in South East Asia too. Indonesia I can understand being brought under the umbrella of Islamic extremists and Islamic law, simply because the country has had many problems. When it comes to Malaysia though I really don't know why people have turned to Islam there in its more extreme forms. There is undoubtedly a division being enforced in society there.

In the Philippines it is certainly a lot more like Indonesia in being a country stricken with many social problems and some form of extremism is bound to rise. What is clear there also is that Catholicism has not bred extremists only internal corruption rather than outright physical violence (in form of bombing I mean rather than the numerous cases of sexual assaults committed by priests).

Many people may nto realise that bombings across asia have been carried out in the name of Islam for some time prior to the western world being exposed to it. In the UK we had the IRA for a long time so it was not new to us, in Spanish the Catalans had a similar problem. Both of these problems were not really about religion though, in Northern Ireland religious was used, but it was not really the main issue nationalism was.
AKA badgerjelly
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Spectrum »

Burning ghost wrote:Spectrum -
I am just glad you see it as something worth looking into. It may uncover some clues as to why Islam is in its current state.
I am very confident of my thesis [the proximate causes] of why Islam [in part] is so evil in triggering SOME Muslims who are evil prone to commit terrible evils and violence around the world.

My hunch on why the Jews are not committing terrible evils and violence despite the existence of much more evil laden elements is they way the evil elements in the Torah are not aligned like poison arrow heads with the arrow pulled back and waiting to be released on the enemies. Or like a gun loaded with bullets and cocked. There are other reasons.
I am an aggressive truth seeker and I will endeavor to find out why.
I think we're all quite familiar with the news in the middle east and the basic history of the region. I know there are big problems in South East Asia too. Indonesia I can understand being brought under the umbrella of Islamic extremists and Islamic law, simply because the country has had many problems. When it comes to Malaysia though I really don't know why people have turned to Islam there in its more extreme forms. There is undoubtedly a division being enforced in society there.

In the Philippines it is certainly a lot more like Indonesia in being a country stricken with many social problems and some form of extremism is bound to rise. What is clear there also is that Catholicism has not bred extremists only internal corruption rather than outright physical violence (in form of bombing I mean rather than the numerous cases of sexual assaults committed by priests).

Many people may not realise that bombings across asia have been carried out in the name of Islam for some time prior to the western world being exposed to it.
Some good examples of why South East Asia, Africa, Europe and all Muslims in the World are moving towards the essence of Islam and thus reflecting its inherent evil is the following trend around the World;
  • 1. The trend of increasing use of hijab [cover head] and burka [cover whole person] of Muslimah throughout the World. Compare 1970s and Now (2017)
    2. The increasing implementation of Sharia
    3. Increasing trend of Muslim men keeping their beard [no moustache]
Note this video of Iran during the 70s and Now.
Before they were more human but 'Now' they are more Islamic.
The above change is generic throughout the Islamic World.

The implication is the average Muslim is getting closer and complying more with their God's command as decreed in their religious texts.
The real gist of Islam is about widening the exposure to the existential crisis therefrom promoting primal fears and psychological insecurities and pushing Muslims to be more religious as expected by Allah.

The existential crisis in combination with the evils of Islam are like very aggressive cancer cells and they will attack whenever there are the slightest signs of weakness of the immune system.
There are many reasons how the cancerous groups of evil prone Muslims were allowed to infect society [e.g. the case of Luton Town] but one critical reason is the complicitness by the Regressive Left. Another is the theists who are indirectly complicit to it.

Since the inherent ethos of Islam [in part] is very evil, thus with more Muslims getting more devout with their inherently evil religion, the greater the manifestation of Islamic evil by SOME Muslims who are naturally evil prone.
This theory is well proven by the actual statistics of real terrible evils and violence around the World.

The first step towards a solution is for all Muslims to acknowledge [objectively] their religion is problematic as having evil elements.

Note Imam Tawhidi's point, Islam as it is today has everything to do with terrorism committed by Muslims.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Why is the left so sympathetic to Islam?

Post by Burning ghost »

Yes, and to the above the US policy and political interference is a factor in Iran. I do think it is possible people get caught up with this though. Even though the inference has fanned the flames we'd be dumb to ignore the doctrine being preached by the extremist groups.
AKA badgerjelly
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Politics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021