Trump's Demand for Loyalty
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
-- Updated Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:12 pm to add the following --
I suppose this all extends to the wider issues surrounding freedom of speech: In a society where legal representation can be bought, clearly in practice the rich and powerful have more access to free speech than others because they can intimidate others with their access to expensive lawyers.
Is there anything we should do about that?
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
He demands people be fired for speaking out against him, and he is fully aware that when he targets a person on his twitter account that the person ends up receiving numerous death threats from his fans. Go tell Kathy Griffin that she not targeted by Trump for making a joke. It's a long-standing tradition in the USA to make jokes about a sitting President. Trump is apparently under the mistaken belief that joking about the President is an offense that warrants their termination and an investigation by the secret service.
Americans of all political stripes should be outraged at such offensive conduct by a sitting President. But, instead of supporting a rule of law, instead of supporting principles of freedom, many Americans prefer to sell their souls to a flawed man and give them their "loyalty" so he can continue to thumb his nose at the principles of liberty. These are the weak-willed people who need someone to lead them by the nose.
-- Updated July 28th, 2017, 12:13 pm to add the following --
It's not freedom of speech for a sitting President to use his office power to target those who speak out against him. That's a violation of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech addresses the issue of the government's power to silence someone. The First Amendment also protects private news agencies, which Trump has repeatedly targeted as President. If Trump was a private individual, then I would agree he would be exercising his freedom of speech, but, as a government official, the situation changes. It's like a police officer while wearing his uniform cannot tell you off for criticizing Trump, without violating the First Amendment, but as a private party, while off the job, he could do so without violating the First Amendment. So the law requires a government official to keep certain personal views to themselves while in their official capacity. Trump is officially the President 24/7.
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
The lies during inauguration day were for purposes of illustration. Trump constantly lies about pretty much everything, and his political agenda is based on these lies. His fans simply don't care about reality. The problem for them and Trump is that the converse is also true --- reality does not bend to the will of Trump's made-up fantastical claims.
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
One hint at what Trump means might lie in the question of why he denied he asked Comey for loyalty and then spin it to say that it would not be inappropriate to ask for loyalty to the country.He either does not distinguish between loyalty to him and loyalty to the country or he is aware of the difference and denied he asked for loyalty from Comey and then deflected by changing the question to loyalty to the country. He also said, however, that it would have been inappropriate to ask Comey for his loyalty.
Another hint is that loyalty is for him a one way street. This suggests that he sees it as a kind of obedience, a pledge to do his bidding whatever the personal cost may be.
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
Well I guess it's been a Banana Republic for a long time then.Fan of Science wrote:Razbio calls blatant lies from the President, trivial, and others on here support his lies as well. These are the people who don't give a crap about freedom. For them, supporting a fascist President who can't even tell the truth about being rained on while giving his inauguration speech, an easily verifiable fact, means that freedom is dead in the USA. After all, if one cannot speak truth to power, then what good is freedom of speech? A President who has promoted conspiracy theories, science denial, and compulsive lying from the White House is not someone concerned with the well-being of others, and certainly not what is in the best interests of America. Trump only cares about himself, which is why, as a typical fascist, he demands loyalty, even from a group of boyscouts.
An average thug on the street who lies is not remotely as harmful as a President who lies. As President, Trump should be held to a higher moral standard, not a lower one. When leaders behave immorally, which includes lying repeatedly, targeting private citizens who voice negative opinions of Trump, it reduces the USA to a banana republic.
Published year 2008?! Trump must have been in the White House then because under him misbehaving was brought into the Federal Political sphere.Dana Milbank - In Washington, Party Loyalty Is Everything
Published on Jan 31, 2008
Didn't Republicans run a boy prostitution service ring in the White House during one of the Bush family presidencies? I think so but I can't remember exactly. I mean it was not 13 year-old boys but like 20 year-old male prostitutes or something.
Back when going "back to work" meant more to Democrats than morality, now all of a sudden they are like blushing virgins that can't believe their ears. They preach more morality than the Pope.
Billy Clinton was flying around to big time hooker islands or whatever it was. Not that I care. Some of the girls there were under age 18 though but powerful men have always been involved in things like this. They were probably grabbing women by their kittens before Trump ever was caught joking about it on recording.
- Razblo
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
-- Updated July 28th, 2017, 10:21 pm to add the following --
nations trade globally. It doesn't require any move toward a global government.Steve3007 wrote:Another couple of questions:
Can you see any upsides to global trade? If you see it as "all the same", then do you believe there is no point to any concepts of international law?
Do you favour nationalism in trade because you think that the boundaries to completely free trade should coincide with the boundaries of democratically created laws? i.e. is one of your objections to global free trade that there is no truly enforceable global law?
-- Updated Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:35 pm to add the following --
Do you think that nations should not trade with each other at all?
'International law'. Examples of specific laws under this heading?
'Enforceable global law'. Who is the enforcer? How does one become the enforcer?
-- Updated July 28th, 2017, 10:23 pm to add the following --
Reading fan of something's posts is like listening to CNN.
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
So I guess you're not opposed to these nations trading globally? You're not opposed to the existence of global trade? Global trade needs agreements and treaties between pairs of countries or groups of countries to establish the rules under which that trade is conducted. In a democracy, law is an agreement - like a treaty - within a country. International law is an extension of that idea to agreements between countries. Therefore if you accept the existence of global trade then you accept the need for some forms of mutually agreed international laws.nations trade globally. It doesn't require any move toward a global government.
WTO rules. Rules regarding conduct during conflicts. etc.'International law'. Examples of specific laws under this heading?
Laws are simply agreements as to how to behave, whether those agreements are between the elected representative in a country or whether they are between the governments of different countries. Who is the enforcer? Enforcement is generally attempted under the umbrella of the UN. You'll probably make various cynical comments about the effectiveness, corruption or other failings of the UN. But those comments would all be beside the point. You could make similar cynical comments about national judiciaries and police forces. They wouldn't alter the fact that the answer to the question "who enforces national laws?" would be "the judiciary and the police."
- Burning ghost
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
What we should be wary of is open attacks in any direction in the media. Prolonged and sustained attacks against any ideology or persons is a sure sign of someone wanting to influence public opinion. As to who and what their motivations are we can only do our own digging and make guesses.
Distraction is a very useful tool. Better off ignoring the sound bites and watching the attacks (ALL the attacks you can rather than the ones being thrust into your face.)
You know this, just a friendly reminder
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
- Razblo
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
Easier to publicly scrutinize toward an impetus to clean up, using a local national political structure, a national or state judiciary and police. The UN is a runaway cart without a horse.Steve3007 wrote:Razblo:So I guess you're not opposed to these nations trading globally? You're not opposed to the existence of global trade? Global trade needs agreements and treaties between pairs of countries or groups of countries to establish the rules under which that trade is conducted. In a democracy, law is an agreement - like a treaty - within a country. International law is an extension of that idea to agreements between countries. Therefore if you accept the existence of global trade then you accept the need for some forms of mutually agreed international laws.nations trade globally. It doesn't require any move toward a global government.
WTO rules. Rules regarding conduct during conflicts. etc.'International law'. Examples of specific laws under this heading?
Laws are simply agreements as to how to behave, whether those agreements are between the elected representative in a country or whether they are between the governments of different countries. Who is the enforcer? Enforcement is generally attempted under the umbrella of the UN. You'll probably make various cynical comments about the effectiveness, corruption or other failings of the UN. But those comments would all be beside the point. You could make similar cynical comments about national judiciaries and police forces. They wouldn't alter the fact that the answer to the question "who enforces national laws?" would be "the judiciary and the police."
So, do you have a list available of WTO rules?
Of course businesses within nations should trade with businesses in other nations. That isn't what is usually meant by 'globalism'.
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
No, but I presume the WTO proabably does. Maybe here:So, do you have a list available of WTO rules?
wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e ... act2_e.htm
If it is not about global trade and internationally agreed rules that attempt to govern that trade what, in your view, is meant by "globalism"? (Apart from meaning that we're all victims of a global conspiracy to enslave or kill us involving most of the rich and powerful people in the world who all play golf together while hatching their dastardly plots.)That isn't what is usually meant by 'globalism'.
- Razblo
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
The formation of a parliament in a form such as the EU would be my example of 'globalism'. The UN could be another, particularly when one considers its 'Agenda 21' concept. 'Globalism' as in a one world government. An effect would be no private ownership of homes or land and no private ownership of farms and general food production. Government farms. Then there would be total control of movement which getting people out of privately owned vehicles lends toward. Driverless cars would suit this end. In San Bernadino CA they have only just, in the last 2 days, approved a new 20% tax on petrol toward such things as widening freeways which are also planned to have high concrete walls on each side with periodically positioned guard towers along the route. The residents of this area were not asked for their input and, in fact, city councilors attempted to hold meetings in private. Some locals did make discovery about such meetings and agenda and so therefore forced their way in to make their voices heard and feelings felt. San Bernadino is an example of Agenda 21.Steve3007 wrote:No, but I presume the WTO proabably does. Maybe here:So, do you have a list available of WTO rules?
wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e ... act2_e.htm
If it is not about global trade and internationally agreed rules that attempt to govern that trade what, in your view, is meant by "globalism"? (Apart from meaning that we're all victims of a global conspiracy to enslave or kill us involving most of the rich and powerful people in the world who all play golf together while hatching their dastardly plots.)That isn't what is usually meant by 'globalism'.
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Re: Trump's Demand for Loyalty
2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
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