What makes a good deal maker?

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
Woodart
Moderator
Posts: 283
Joined: March 3rd, 2017, 1:49 pm

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Woodart » September 15th, 2017, 11:21 am

Actually I think there can be a great deal in common between politics and business. Many times they are synonymous. Insider trading on stocks is a type of confluence – getting a zoning change to aid ones business is another. Politics and business have always worked together and always will. The goal of both is control of power and resources.

Politics is a business and always has been. It is in the business of controlling people and managing their assets. Politics is another form of religion. It has a philosophy in order to control its adherents and opposition – just like any business and religion. I think politics is the most successful business organization primarily because it has an army and police force to enforce its dictates. Business proper and/or religions align with government in order to protect its interests and achieve its goals. It is the old equation – you scratch my back and I’ll scratch yours.

Eduk
Posts: 1936
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Eduk » September 15th, 2017, 11:27 am

I agree with Woodart. My experience of large organisations is that the higher up the management food chain you go the more political the job gets.
Unknown means unknown.

Steve3007
Posts: 5397
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Steve3007 » September 15th, 2017, 11:42 am

I guess a major difference between running the Trump organisation and being US president is that, the Trump organisation being a private company, the boss is only answerable to customers, whereas the president is answerable to both his customers (A.K.A. voters) and other politicians. He can't rule by decree, as he can in his company. He has to try to negotiate and compromise with his fellow politicians. This he seems to be struggling to do. And he seems to have been somewhat surprised to find that he had to do it and that being president doesn't just make you the boss of the country.

User avatar
Scribbler60
Posts: 176
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 11:48 am

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Scribbler60 » September 16th, 2017, 8:56 am

Eduk wrote:I agree with Woodart. My experience of large organisations is that the higher up the management food chain you go the more political the job gets.
Having seen this first-hand, I agree.

But politics inside a business and politics as a profession are two entirely different things. They suffer from using the same word for different processes.

Politics inside a business is usually centred around gaining power and influence. Politics as a profession, at its best, is centred around doing the most benefit for the most number of people, creating stability for business, managing the economy, making the trains run on time, etc. It doesn't always appear to work like that, but that's the goal.

Politics in the public sphere should be - usually is - less about personal aggrandizement, where politics in business is all about personal aggrandizement.

It's all very easy and fashionable to criticize politicians as ineffective time-wasters, in it only for the pension, etc etc, but fact is, without them, your roads won't be cleared of snow, the lights won't go on, the buses won't run, the water won't flow and the sewer system won't be maintained.

Having known, personally, a small number of politicians at the municipal, provincial and federal level, in my experience they have all gone into it for the right reasons. There's not a lot of money in it, the press and public scrutiny can be withering, the amount of work is mind-boggling, and the toll on one's personal life can be very difficult.

Care to put in 70, 80, 90 hours a week and have every single word you say examined and your intentions questioned publicly, every day, for less than $100 grand a year (far, far less at the municipal level, where my local city councillor earns less than $55,000)? Personally, I wouldn't do it.

Eduk
Posts: 1936
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Eduk » September 16th, 2017, 9:49 am

Politics inside a business is usually centred around gaining power and influence. Politics as a profession, at its best, is centred around doing the most benefit for the most number of people, creating stability for business, managing the economy, making the trains run on time, etc. It doesn't always appear to work like that, but that's the goal.
Sorry both roles have the same ideal goal. You are just describing bad politics V good politics. I agree politics itself shouldn't be a dirty word (though it often used as one).
For every politician who got into politics for the 'right' reasons in the public sector I'm sure there is also a politician who got into politics for the 'right' reason in the private sector.

You point about wages is I think simplistic. Many politicians earn far far more than their basic wage would imply and hours in the private and public sector I imagine are close.

I am actually not convinced money is a net negative factor anyway. For example beyond a certain point more money doesn't increase job satisfaction. The type of person who is only looking to make money shouldn't be a politician anyway (although they often are of course).

Your point about watching every word is a genuine concern. I for example couldn't be a politician regardless of my aptitude because I would be endangering mine and my families life every time I said something factually true. But I can't help but think this is true in the private sector also, just with a smaller number of interested parties.

Don't get me wrong. It is possible that there are more people into politics in the public sector who genuinely want to improve the lot of themselves and others and have the aptitude to do it. I just need a bit more hard evidence to be convinced of that. For example I know of no UK politician (or any politician) who I would describe as both competent, trustworthy, and wise.
Unknown means unknown.

Steve3007
Posts: 5397
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Steve3007 » September 27th, 2017, 1:52 pm

Eduk:
For example I know of no UK politician (or any politician) who I would describe as both competent, trustworthy, and wise.
Someone like David Steel, maybe? Or Shirley Williams? One of those old LibDem types. They seem ok.

-- Updated Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:53 pm to add the following --

(I mean LibDem/Liberal/SDP/SDP-Liberal-Alliance, depending on what era you catch them in.)

Eduk
Posts: 1936
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Eduk » September 28th, 2017, 9:18 am

Ha ha, I just looked up your recommendations, I was hoping for someone who is currently active, they both look to have retired?

Historically Churchill comes to mind, man was somewhat of a quote machine. Although to be honest I've only ever read 'good' quotes from him, it's possible 'bad' ones exist which I've simply not read, never having studied his life or anything :)

-- Updated September 28th, 2017, 9:26 am to add the following --

ok I took five minutes to actually look, turns out he's a pretty mixed bag to say the least.
Unknown means unknown.

Steve3007
Posts: 5397
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Steve3007 » September 28th, 2017, 9:34 am

Churchill? Mixed bag. Yes. You're right about his quotes. He's quote gold.

Steel and Williams not very active any more, no. Both still in the House of Lords I think. You looked them up? Must have heard of them surely. David Steel - leader of the Liberal Party for ages. Shirley Williams - split from the Labour party in the 1980s to form the SDP with the infamous "gang of four".

Eduk
Posts: 1936
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Eduk » September 28th, 2017, 9:46 am

Steel and Williams, I believe, are life peers, which I assume means they are members of the house of lords until they die. I have no idea if they vote or are active though, I could probably look it up. To be honest I've never heard of them, I was one in 1980 :) I don't know the names or endeavours of many politicians, hence asking the question about known politicians who could be somewhat respected. I don't require absolute respect :)

Oh and yes Churchill was a mixed bag.
Unknown means unknown.

Steve3007
Posts: 5397
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eratosthenes
Location: UK

Re: What makes a good deal maker?

Post by Steve3007 » September 28th, 2017, 9:51 am

I was one in 1980
Ah. OK. I'll let you off then! :D

Post Reply