Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Steve3007 »

In the second book of the Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy series, it turns out that the real ruler of the galaxy is a guy who lives in a small wooden shack and knows nothing whatever about the outside world. He simply reacts, from instinct, to various questions that officials periodically come along and ask him.

In the US, this experiment is also currently being tried. The current president knows virtually nothing about the way that the country of which he is president works. He doesn't know how legislation is passed. He didn't know that Abraham Lincoln was a Republican. He thought that if you use hairspray in a room with the door closed, the CFCs can't get out and damage the ozone layer. etc.

Is this a good thing? Is that the kind of leader we should all have? One that is unencumbered with knowledge and is free to just react naturally and instinctively without getting confused? Less is more?
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Sy Borg »

It is reckless and will set the US backwards, which is dangerous. I am personally nervous about races of angry fallen kings with tremendous weaponry. We have seen how that plays out in the past. As the US falls behind their more far-sighted competitors, the logic of using their one advantage over their becomes ever stronger.

If I ever need surgery I would not want the "fresh perspective" of a medical equipment salesman.
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Burning ghost »

If you create a society that revolves around celebrity and business mentality then those prerequisites for "success" will eventually present themselves in the political sphere.

Reap what you sow, and all that malarkey!

Frankly I am surprised it took the US so long to elect such a president. Is it good? Short term, no. Long term, YES! It will hopefully shake the apathetic people of the US into a state of wakefulness, into a mode of listening to what common people and stepping away from the idea of treating a nation like some business venture. Or maybe not?
AKA badgerjelly
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Steve3007 »

Perhaps the experiment being conducted is really about whether a country just muddles through pretty much as it did before regardless of the characteristics of the leader. It seems clear that Trump is, above all else, the anti-Obama president. Most of what he does is simply revenge against Obama. He persistently told the now familiar old lie that Obama is not American (purely and simply because of Obama's skin colour. That lie absolutely would not have arisen if he had lighter coloured skin), Obama mocked him for it, and he then made it his goal to attempt to systematically destroy everything Obama had done purely because it was Obama who had done it. Obviously you'd think that this entirely negative agenda would be devastating. But maybe it simply doesn't matter that much.
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Eduk »

Douglas Adam's was awesome. As normal he is not talking about an alternate reality he is talking about the reality we are in. Trump is just even more obviously analogous to this character than the other leaders were. I particularly like Adam's electric monks which would believe things for you, this seems more and more real the older I get :)

Anyway, to the question. The obvious answer is that such a leader would do a terrible job. But in fairness not the worst possible job, a Hitler style dictator would still be worse than a random bloke living in a shed talking garbage which had little to nothing to do with reality.

Then of course there is the silver lining argument. He will mess things up so badly people will be forced to change things for the better and after a couple hundred years or so it's actually better off for it.

I am of the opinion that the silver lining argument is irrelevant. I look at it slightly differently. If you take an individual that individual can (for a huge variety of reasons) make better or worse choices. Now it may never be known if those choices were better or worse. It might be that they make little to no difference. Certainly there is no objective standard of better or worse to judge against and even if there was an objective standard there is no way to hold an individual to that standard. Now of course if the choices get too bad then disastrous things happen which evolution selects for. This applies to groups of humans as well as it does to individuals. So I see a kind of see saw effect going on. Choices get too bad then evolution (via natural selection) starts to force choices to get better. Choices get too good and natural selection becomes a non issue and we swing back into bad choices again. Of course the pendulum stops either when we all die out or if we can find a way to stop it.
Unknown means unknown.
User avatar
Mike-the-philosopher
New Trial Member
Posts: 2
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 1:48 pm

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Mike-the-philosopher »

My response to this question for now is Yes. If he knows nothing then as he becomes knowledgeable about politics he has a greater chance of not becoming corrupted by anything that he would have known before, once he begins to know about politics. My point is that the problem with Trump is not that he doesn't know anything about politics, but what he knows about everything else. What he knows about everything else will certainly corrupt anything about politics or running a country he becomes knowledgeable about. It would therefore be better if we took a baby, lock him or her away in a bubble from all knowledge for about 25 years, then teach him/her everything about how to run a country for another 4 to 5 years and watch that person become the most successful president or leader of any country. So in conclusion, the possible best political leader would be one that knows absolutely nothing.... at first (saying he/she would then have to become knowledgeable about politics). One may argue that to know about politics you must possess knowledge of other areas, but politics or political science rather is a social science which incorporates every other conceivable aspect of life that a leader of a country would need to know. Hence, as he/she becomes knowledgeable about politics through the study of political science, then he/she would in essence become knowledgeable about everything else that is necessary for him/her to know. I am therefore implying that the best political leader can only be one who studies political science, and would be even better if he/she never study anything prior to this.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7935
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by LuckyR »

If the know nothing leader was also neutral, one could make the argument that he would have an equal chance of making correct decisions as a partisan. That is to say that if legislation crossed his desk in ordinary circumstances he would sign it or veto it. Future history will tell us if the action taken was correct. A coin flipping monkey might do a decent job, randomly. The current POTUS, though is not a coin flipping monkey, unfortunately. He is making decisions that either are good for him personally (like abolishing the estate tax) or as mentioned above, massage his ego. For example taking away health coverage for the combination of reasons: A) a guy I hate wrote the original law and B) I might have to pay more in taxes to pay for the health care for a bunch of losers.
"As usual... it depends."
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Steve3007 »

It's probably obvious that one of my main motives for starting this topic was to have yet another cheap dig at US president Trump. In that sense, I guess it's a bit like one of his knee-jerk Twitter rants. I see the latest news and fire off a topic. Same principle, much, much smaller audience.

But perhaps it is still interesting to consider that guy in the wooden shack.

Eduk:
Douglas Adam's was awesome. As normal he is not talking about an alternate reality he is talking about the reality we are in. Trump is just even more obviously analogous to this character than the other leaders were. I particularly like Adam's electric monks which would believe things for you, this seems more and more real the older I get :)
The guy in the wooden shack in the story seems to be very solipsistic and he seems to be a continuation from Douglas Adams' idea of the "Total Perspective Vortex", the "Fundamental interconnectedness of all things" and the extrapolation of the entire universe from a small piece of fairy cake. He is a piece of human fairy cake! The people who put him in power clearly think that it's possible to take his logical reasoning and musings based in his immediate sensations and extrapolate the broad principles he comes up with there in the confines of a small shack which he never leaves to the entire galaxy.

A nice idea. Whether president Trump is really analogous to it? I guess probably not really. That was just a little conceit of mine. An obvious difference is that Trump clearly has brought with him various pre-conceived ideas. But one parallel to the solipsism of the character is perhaps Trump's apparent belief that truth and falsehood are irrelevant and that all that matters about one's words is the effect that they have. And therefore Fact Checking news services miss the point.

-- Updated Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 am to add the following --

(I like the electric monks too. I think they were in Dirk Gently weren't they?)
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Sy Borg »

Steve3007 wrote:IWhether president Trump is really analogous to it? I guess probably not really. That was just a little conceit of mine. An obvious difference is that Trump clearly has brought with him various pre-conceived ideas. But one parallel to the solipsism of the character is perhaps Trump's apparent belief that truth and falsehood are irrelevant and that all that matters about one's words is the effect that they have. And therefore Fact Checking news services miss the point.

-- Updated Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:11 am to add the following --

(I like the electric monks too. I think they were in Dirk Gently weren't they?)
Trump is completely opposite to the ruler of the universe. The latter claims ignorance about things of which he really does know while Trump claims great knowledge of things about which he knows precious little.

The electric monk was a Dirk Gently character. I especially liked his horse:
[...] it was none the less a perfectly ordinary horse, such as convergent evolution has produced in many of the places that life is to be found. They have always understood a great deal more than they let on. It is difficult to be sat on all day, every day, by some other creature, without forming an opinion about them.

On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to sit all day, every day, on top of another creature and not have the slightest thought about them whatsoever.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Steve3007 »

Greta:
Trump is completely opposite to the ruler of the universe. The latter claims ignorance about things of which he really does know while Trump claims great knowledge of things about which he knows precious little.
Fair point. So I suppose there isn't so much of a parallel between the two; more of a perpendicular.

(Dirk Gently book)
They have always understood a great deal more than they let on. It is difficult to be sat on all day, every day, by some other creature, without forming an opinion about them.
I guess that's why the White House staff give so many anonymous accounts of life inside.
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Eduk »

hmm I believe I need to re-read the restaurant at the end of the universe :)

Zaphod and Trillian seem quite pleased with the ruler of the universe. I mean I get the theme that anyone who both wants to be the ruler and can convince others to allow it should not be the ruler. In real life I see this often, people who know how complicated and difficult a problem is may not believe they have the aptitude to run a country (or run a business). Anyone who does think they have the aptitude to run a country is probably mistaken about how complicated and difficult it is and how little they know (dunning-kruger). So naturally the number one attribute of a leader is the desire to be the leader. Secondly to convince others to allow it. And distantly last any actual ability.

So from that perspective the hermit is a better choice than someone who wants to do it. Plus he does not believe that he can do it, on the surface he has minimal bias. Sadly it doesn't address, for me, the fact of whether he can or can not. Of course it's meant as a joke but most of Adam's jokes mean something, so I'm not sure what he means on this one.

Now I am less sure of the analogy to Trump :) Although I see what you are getting at. In a way he is as solipsistic as the hermit. And in his own way just as cut off from the world as the hermit. But as Greta pointed out he seems to be the opposite to Trump in manner.
Unknown means unknown.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Steve3007 »

Maybe it would be better to say that the shack-dwelling ruler of the universe is Barack Obama and Donald Trump is Zaphod Beeblebrox?
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Eduk »

I dimly seem to remember Zaphod is the official ruler of the universe? But I also think he realises that he shouldn't be (and isn't)? I may be giving Zaphod too much credit :)

Barack seems further away from the hermit than Trump to my mind.
Unknown means unknown.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Steve3007 »

Eduk:
Zaphod and Trillian seem quite pleased with the ruler of the universe. I mean I get the theme that anyone who both wants to be the ruler and can convince others to allow it should not be the ruler.
Yes, I think the general message is that power corrupts, so an arrangement has to be made whereby the person making the big decisions doesn't realise, or believe, or accept, that they're in a position of power.
In real life I see this often, people who know how complicated and difficult a problem is may not believe they have the aptitude to run a country (or run a business).
Yes, I agree. The kinds of people who say things like "Shoot me down in flames if I'm wrong..." or "I'm probably talking out of my ar*e, but how about this..." don't generally tend to get political power.
Anyone who does think they have the aptitude to run a country is probably mistaken about how complicated and difficult it is and how little they know (dunning-kruger).
Yes, but on the other hand, maybe people who appreciate the complexities of life get so wound up thinking about it that they never actually make any decisions? That, I think, is the difficult balance that has to be struck. The interesting thing about the recent US election was that the current and previous presidents seem to neatly encapsulate the perils of both extremes.
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Is the best political leader one who knows nothing?

Post by Eduk »

Yes imagine being the president and being concerned about getting everything 'right'. It would certainly slow down decision making. I'm not sure if Obama really suffered from this or not, on the surface he seems like the most reasonable president in my life time. But I don't know him well.
Unknown means unknown.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Politics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021