Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
User avatar
Singular_me
New Trial Member
Posts: 10
Joined: December 4th, 2015, 7:05 pm

Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Singular_me » November 26th, 2017, 6:55 pm

The philosophical argument is that wealth cannot be created nor destroyed but merely change hands... so why is society competing in the end?

Owning Earth, The Most Destructive Paradigm:
When man thinks Earth belongs to him, that presupposes and comprises all life living on Her. Owning earth implies that anything must sell - including death. This chapter examines Earth's Nurturing Principle encompassing any materialistic pursuit.

How Much Materialism Is Good?:
Materialism is good as long as competition is regarded as inimical and detrimental to the human species. Materialism only becomes immoral when used to buy 'time or favors' at the expense of others. This chapter explains why first going down the path of materialism was ineluctable in order to discover the ramifications of everything.

No Monetary System Can Match The Generosity Of Earth:
Because earth gives unconditionally, humans must learn to give just as Nature gives. Giving is a Natural Law, which means an absolute difficult to attain but always represents irrefutable life lessons.

Maxcady10001
Posts: 445
Joined: September 12th, 2017, 6:03 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Maxcady10001 » November 26th, 2017, 10:51 pm

I think we can destroy wealth. If I were wealthy, and I withdrew all of my money and burned it along with my house and other assets, I would no longer be wealthy, and wealth has not changed hands.
Who's claiming to own the Earth? And anything can be sold, meaning a value can be applied to anything. Human's could sell the Earth to aliens if we wanted. Perhaps for spaceships. The value of Earth would be however many spaceships humans got.
I don't think competition is regarded as inimical, in fact, it's probably regarded by most people as necessary. How does materialism reveal the ramifications of everything? When is materialism used to buy time? Seems contrary to definition of materialism.
I don't see nature as a giver. It's more of a force that compels. An animal will hunt, scavenge or forage, because it is compelled by their nature, not because resources are given.

User avatar
Singular_me
New Trial Member
Posts: 10
Joined: December 4th, 2015, 7:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Singular_me » November 27th, 2017, 3:06 am

Maxcady... thanks for your 2 cents but like many people your train of thought embraces the darwinian premise, which does not work for humans because they are not animals. Man can behave like an animal if he wants to or.... escape this condition(ing), which is not their nature and purpose.

Nature gives unconditionally, predators in the wilderness do not have a monopolies on life/death. Humans do when they behave like animals.

At a human level, respect for all life is paramount. Last year, 500K dairy cows were slaughtered to keep milk prices high. In feedlots, factory animal farms, animals suffer 24/7 which releases toxins in their blood. All this because we are conditioned into believing that eating 1lb worth of meat daily is a must, while the human body only needs that very amount weekly.

This conditioning is embedded in the pyramidal structure of society and completely inimical to man. The only social model that respects life and earth is voluntaryism.

Economically, wealth changing hands comes along with coercive manipulation of the markets, insider trading is a way of life, and on a regular basis, people are stripped of their possessions legally. Your example only works in your subjective paradigm, while I am referring to Objective Reality. Wealth changing hands also occurs even more brutally, the "coltan war" for example, a mineral needed for electronics and responsible for the death of more than 5 millions of africans so far.

Owning earth: the war/competition for natural resources is the evidence of this. Or just like the extreme pollution caused by the quest for profit. The once hailed "invention" of plastic has become today the absolute nightmare because speculation allows nature's destruction for profit. Even fish have plastic debris in their guts now. Marine pollution by plastic has become an absolute threat. I have tons of examples. Another one is our staggering e-waste dumped onto poor countries, the equivalent of 32 billion yearly. Or take the disgusting of food waste which amount to 50% of the global food production. Owning earth has consequence, profits extract the maximum and cause environmental destruction and suffering to increase exponentially.

Monetary is used to buy time because people would do anything to bypass difficulties and remain ahead of the game, monetarism is thus corrupting minds. Integrity is pretty seldom because of that. Collusion is another side effect.

User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 7215
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Greta » November 27th, 2017, 5:03 am

Singular_me wrote:Maxcady... thanks for your 2 cents but like many people your train of thought embraces the darwinian premise, which does not work for humans because they are not animals.
People keep saying that humans are not animals but I'm waiting for the evidence of this. Our aims - survival and thrival - are the same as any other animal, and each species has its own way of trying to persist.
Singular_me wrote:Man can behave like an animal if he wants to or.... escape this condition(ing), which is not their nature and purpose.
Yes, humans can rise above the animalistic, but we often don't, me included.
Singular_me wrote:Economically, wealth changing hands comes along with coercive manipulation of the markets, insider trading is a way of life, and on a regular basis, people are stripped of their possessions legally. Your example only works in your subjective paradigm, while I am referring to Objective Reality. Wealth changing hands also occurs even more brutally, the "coltan war" for example, a mineral needed for electronics and responsible for the death of more than 5 millions of africans so far.
Consider this: the early solar system was relatively homogeneous - the protoplanetary disc. Some objects were larger than others, and they tended to attract more material. The bigger they became, the more material they absorbed. These concentrated areas that eventually became the planets either consumed, destroyed or ejected from orbit every smaller object they encountered until they "cleared their space", which meant that they became the only entities in their particular orbit.

This is what huge corporations are doing, their financial pull ("gravity") attracting monies from any smaller bodies they encounter. Where it ends, I don't know. It seems to me that humanity does not have a uniform prognosis; there will be a few winners and very many losers, perhaps just as was the case 60,000 years ago during a prior extinction event that's believed to have reduced humanity to a group of around 10,000 individuals in a group in Africa. When the ice melted, the 10,000 (and other animals) had a much freer run, with much smaller populations, competition and pressure.

User avatar
Singular_me
New Trial Member
Posts: 10
Joined: December 4th, 2015, 7:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Singular_me » November 27th, 2017, 5:43 am

the issue is really metaphysical in the first place. Darwin (the theory if the fittest) does NOT work for humans. The evidence is that the world is going from bad to worse. Many governments are pouring billions of dollars into AI weaponry and killer robots right now... animals cannot blow up the planet nor destroy humanity...man can, when he think he can behave like an animal. He has the duty is to elevate himself above this conditioning that only sustains deep levels of coercion

Changing the world starts with the self.....All man's problems begin within himself and then are projected outwardly... then come back home to roost. So what do we do from there?

The darwinian premise is atheistic and thus incompatible with Voluntaryism which begs to differ and advocates for the merging of science and metaphysics.

User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 7215
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Greta » November 27th, 2017, 6:19 am

If Darwinism doesn't work for humans, how come we so often operate according to those principles? Isn't that basically what conservative policies are about, that they believe in the natural order of hierarchies, winners and losers? At present conservatives are doing better politically (if not morally) than liberals/progressives.

Read up about previous extinctions rather than assume. Other organisms, such as blue green algae, have been responsible for or played a role in other extinction events. Humans are not the first. All life is part of the Earth' overall system, including humans. At present, as sometimes occurs, the Earth is restructuring itself (humans). So it goes.

I'm all for trying to be more humane, but I am not young and seen so many well meaning idealists, including myself, make zero traction. I'll tell you who has traction, Rupert Murdoch. A million of us could get together and form a group and it would still have less influence than him. I dislike his trashing of journalistic ethical codes and his political persuasion, where he embraces much that you reject and vice versa, but this is the reality we must realistically work around.

Generally, the forces that oppose regressive conservatism start out with great enthusiasm and optimism and soon peter out, with the movement usually simply absorbed by the mainstream as a fashion. I was there with the hippies. I also watched the punks. Have you noticed all the peace and love and egalitarianism fostered around the world since the 60s and 70s? You neither? It was a rude awakening for me, as it probably is for many who dream that little people can make a difference.

I was briefly excited by the Arab spring until I found out that generally the new regimes were even more repressive and fundamentalist than before. Another false dawn. I was marching against the Iraq War with a quarter of a million others - and that was just my city. The impact? Our leader's response to over half a million people nationwide marching against Australia joining the illegal invasion? "Everyone is entitled to their opinion". All that passion and effort airily dismissed on prime time TV in six words. No wonder these movements tend to run out of energy.

User avatar
Singular_me
New Trial Member
Posts: 10
Joined: December 4th, 2015, 7:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Singular_me » November 27th, 2017, 6:38 am

<<If Darwinism doesn't work for humans, how come we so often operate according to those principles? Isn't that basically what conservative policies are about, that they believe in the natural order of hierarchies, winners and losers? At present conservatives are doing better politically (if not morally) than liberals/progressives. >>

natural order of hierarchies? Coercion is not a natural state for a human society. And the evidence is that history repeats itself by cycles. AI weaponry should debunks darwinism and is the evidence of a feudal structure that must be overcome, instead of trying to muddle through

again you are confusing conditioning which is a programed that is instilled into people's minds since they are born, and believe it to be true.

Arab spring was/is completely engineered as much as anything else is. There has never been any real revolution because there is no such a thing as "us versus them", which is a mindset benefiting the geopolitical chess games using FEAR for social manipulation.

the only coercion that is acceptable is which coming from within, all external coercion is utterly destructive

User avatar
Singular_me
New Trial Member
Posts: 10
Joined: December 4th, 2015, 7:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Singular_me » November 27th, 2017, 7:10 am

I have put some data out there for everybody to ponder the harmful premises of darwinism.

I think this forum has a good edge but being moderated when discussing such an important topic is not my cup of tea. Additionally I cannot even edit myself.

Chili
Posts: 355
Joined: September 29th, 2017, 4:59 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Chili » November 27th, 2017, 1:51 pm

Singular_me wrote:the issue is really metaphysical in the first place. Darwin (the theory if the fittest) does NOT work for humans. The evidence is that the world is going from bad to worse. Many governments are pouring billions of dollars into AI weaponry and killer robots right now... animals cannot blow up the planet nor destroy humanity...man can, when he think he can behave like an animal. He has the duty is to elevate himself above this conditioning that only sustains deep levels of coercion

Changing the world starts with the self.....All man's problems begin within himself and then are projected outwardly... then come back home to roost. So what do we do from there?

The darwinian premise is atheistic and thus incompatible with Voluntaryism which begs to differ and advocates for the merging of science and metaphysics.
The world is in many ways going from Good to better. Mainstream news in its search for eyeballs shows catastrophes but doesn't tell you war is down, violence is down, even global poverty is down.

User avatar
Scribbler60
Posts: 176
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 11:48 am

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Scribbler60 » November 27th, 2017, 2:04 pm

Chili wrote:The world is in many ways going from Good to better. Mainstream news in its search for eyeballs shows catastrophes but doesn't tell you war is down, violence is down, even global poverty is down.
This is the bit that's often missed in discussions such as these.

Many, many years ago there was a Canadian newscaster working for ABC named Peter Jennings. He was asked in an interview (if I can find it on Youtube I'll post the link) why the news is always bad. He answered - I'm paraphrasing here - that bad news makes the headlines because it's an aberration; it's something outside of normal experience.

You never read about the countless people that got to work without incident, but you might read about the traffic accident. You may read about a bombing at a mosque, but you won't read about a non-bombing at, say, a Buddhist temple.

It also often depends upon how one processes information. It's an established fact that those who tend to self-identify as conservative have brains that are more wired to threat and fear. Source: Fear and Anxiety Drive Conservatives' Political Attitudes. So if one's natural inclination is towards threat and fear, one will be more aware of news that plays upon those emotions. Fox News is great at this.

But Chili is correct: empirically, violence, starvation and poverty continue their downward trend. To be sure, there are unfortunate spasms which may cause us to think that all is not right, but the continued trend is in the correct direction. It seems to be correlated with a general trend away from religion as well, though whether this is causal or simply correlative hasn't, as far as I know, been determined. Source: Secular Societies Fare Better Than Religious Societies.

User avatar
Singular_me
New Trial Member
Posts: 10
Joined: December 4th, 2015, 7:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Singular_me » November 27th, 2017, 3:29 pm

The world is in many ways going from Good to better
I could prove in less than 3 minutes that we are in a very deep mess... starting with the economic side of it.

The global debt is 5 times (but more if we include long term liabilities) the global GDP. With long-term liabilities... could be 3 times as much. Take the US for example:whose national debt is about 20trillion but with long term liabilities is about 100 trillions of dollars! (Dallas federal reserve report 5 or 6 years ago)

Did you know that the 2008 crisis costs the west $75 trillion in "new" debts to save the "too big too fail"? China debt is too ballooning, corporations are debt black holes and polluting the planet at the speed of light for profits... and on and on...

The fact is that the whole planet is on the brink of starvation because govs borrow as if are no tomorrows, creating scarcity by inflation.

Most people are not well informed... suffering skyrockets, child sex trafficking and human/organ trafficking is at all time, the 3rd leading cause of death in america is bigpharma and the medical department (huffingtonpost)

Millions of yemenis are dying because the US/UK sold weapons to saudi arabia, 100 billion worth of arm deal. Moral relativism is another darwinian scourge

I really could go on and on, but I have been writing about economics for about 20 years. The situation is extremely dire.
Like I said, wealth only changes hands at the expense of ignorance, not smoothly but violently.

User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 7215
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Greta » November 27th, 2017, 4:48 pm

Singular_me wrote:
If Darwinism doesn't work for humans, how come we so often operate according to those principles? Isn't that basically what conservative policies are about, that they believe in the natural order of hierarchies, winners and losers? At present conservatives are doing better politically (if not morally) than liberals/progressives.
natural order of hierarchies? Coercion is not a natural state for a human society.
I almost spat out my morning coffee at that :lol: . Coercion is the default dynamic in human societies! Freedom is a new concept.
Singular_me wrote:AI weaponry should debunks darwinism and is the evidence of a feudal structure that must be overcome, instead of trying to muddle through
AI weaponry is simply another dynamic of natural selection. Guess who is "the fittest" and most likely to survive whatever is coming? Hint: it has nothing to do with aerobic capacity.

You say that these structures must be overcome. Good luck with it, and please try not to make things worse as seems to be the way these days whenever people feel the need for dramatic change. If we must change, let us have a clear and realistic view of what we are to do. It is clear in seeing change around the world that, despite the empowerment a group may feel if they successfully depose a system, chaos is even worse than corruption.

As far as I can tell, the Earth is reforming - again - and humans are the agents of change this time. Destruction is not only required for new creation, but it is inevitable anyway via stagnation, whether humans are present anyway. Everyone dies and are thus superseded.

Billions of years ago the blue green algae suffocated the Earth with oxygen, killing almost all of the methanogenic organisms that lived at the time. Apparently 96% of all species died out during the Permian extinction event. Yet the oxygen that flooded the Earth made complex life on Earth possible.

User avatar
Scribbler60
Posts: 176
Joined: December 17th, 2015, 11:48 am

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Scribbler60 » November 27th, 2017, 5:06 pm

Singular_me wrote:
The world is in many ways going from Good to better
I could prove in less than 3 minutes that we are in a very deep mess... starting with the economic side of it.

The global debt is 5 times (but more if we include long term liabilities) the global GDP. With long-term liabilities... could be 3 times as much. Take the US for example:whose national debt is about 20trillion but with long term liabilities is about 100 trillions of dollars! (Dallas federal reserve report 5 or 6 years ago)

Did you know that the 2008 crisis costs the west $75 trillion in "new" debts to save the "too big too fail"? China debt is too ballooning, corporations are debt black holes and polluting the planet at the speed of light for profits... and on and on...

The fact is that the whole planet is on the brink of starvation because govs borrow as if are no tomorrows, creating scarcity by inflation.

Most people are not well informed... suffering skyrockets, child sex trafficking and human/organ trafficking is at all time, the 3rd leading cause of death in america is bigpharma and the medical department (huffingtonpost)

Millions of yemenis are dying because the US/UK sold weapons to saudi arabia, 100 billion worth of arm deal. Moral relativism is another darwinian scourge

I really could go on and on, but I have been writing about economics for about 20 years. The situation is extremely dire.
Like I said, wealth only changes hands at the expense of ignorance, not smoothly but violently.
Suggesting that you can "prove" pretty much anything in 3 minutes or less shows that you aren't fully cognizant of the variables.

None of the issues you raise are unimportant, though it's my understanding that the 3rd leading cause of death in America is more down to medical mistakes than some mythical "big pharma." The numbers are similar in Canada (where I am).

And no, the planet is not on the brink of starvation. That's simply empirically incorrect. Fact is, there is more than enough food to go around. The problem lies with distribution corruption and conflict, most of which is rooted in religion. Even Oxfam agrees. There is enough food to feed the world

Note: When you state that "most people are not well informed", the tacit understanding is that YOU have information that is not available to the rest of us. I humbly submit that is categorically untrue.

I sincerely hope you're not getting your data from InfoWars.

User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 7215
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Greta » November 27th, 2017, 5:16 pm

Singular_me wrote:
The world is in many ways going from Good to better
I could prove in less than 3 minutes that we are in a very deep mess... starting with the economic side of it.
There is no "we". There is an "us" - the small fry - who are in this mess and facing an uncertain future, and "them" - the big fish who are creating a new world to suit themselves. Giant organisations are supplanting natural systems with technology at a local level by taking resources from people, animals and ecosystems.

It's an interesting experiment: will the ultra-wealthy be able to sustain themselves in isolated cities without the support of populations and ecosystems? Will they be able to synthesise all they need from the polluted weeds, vermin, bacteria, corpses and rocks left in the badlands surrounding them? I think they probably will continue to thrive with the help of technology and sustainable energy systems.

However, yes, "we" - as in the little people and animals - are in a mess, but don't for a moment assume that we have a shared fate with the Trump, Koch, Rothschild and Murdoch dynasties. Rich lists show the families most likely to survive what's coming. Not all will make it, but I expect that plenty will.

User avatar
Singular_me
New Trial Member
Posts: 10
Joined: December 4th, 2015, 7:05 pm

Re: Is The End Of Monetarism On The Horizon?

Post by Singular_me » November 27th, 2017, 5:28 pm

>>I almost spat out my morning coffee at that :lol: . Coercion is the default dynamic in human societies! Freedom is a new concept. <<

I have established that we all are subjected to financial feudalism, scarcity by debts and the ensuing inflation. We are free range chickens. There is nothing more dangerous than people who think they are free.

sorry, it works the other way around: the least coercion the more freedom. Coercion can only be obtained by fear and fear make people do many stupid things.

it is not the fittest nor the smartest that survive but the most mentally adaptable/flexible. The fittest and the smartest are too often blinded by their own self-infatuation. Darwinism is only a half truth because man's purpose is to resist the pitfalls power to live free.

It is a mind issue and therefore metaphysical because thoughts create reality.

The least coercive a system is, the more peace there is.

Thank for sharing but darwnism is the absolute dead end as it is an atheistic premise that justifies moral relativism. And at this game, there are no winners.

Post Reply