Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
Just say it like it is. WESTERN CULTURE. There is no need to drag racial issues into this. The more prominent issue would be religion, and it has been argued that Christianity set up, or rather extended, the ancient Greek tradition and allowed scientific developments to blossom into the modern era.
Like every era we're still dragging a lot of unnecessary baggage.
Cultural supremacy is a supremacy of ideas that have been applied and worked well within a given sociopolitical setting and carried through the ages in various forms. Ideas of racial supremacy is what leads to genocide.
One thing that Trump was successful in targeting was so called "fake news". His ploy worked because there is some innate truth to it. We all know that the most wide spread stories are often backed up, or taken up due to popularity, because they allow certain groups to push certain agendas.
Some people form UK I met recently, said they were shocked about brexit because "everyone they knew voted to stay". This is another issue. People think their own little cache of social interaction represents all other members of their nation. It is something we cannot help fll prey to in some fashion or another. Just be on guard! We're all equally stupid when it comes to our own "balanced" opinions.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
You do realise you are living in a huge glass house with that comment, don't you? Not many people are as fixated on race and Muslims as you are.Dachshund wrote: ↑December 7th, 2017, 5:07 amGreta, I've noticed in many of your posts that you have a habit of gravitating towards two basicissues(?) One is that fact you are very concerned that planet Earth is over populated and that this is the locus of many of humanities currents ills.( BTW I find this obsession rather curious as you are an Australian and being born myself in Oz, I know there is plenty of spare space on the continent yet to be filled? ) The second is your fixation with the problem of guns, gun laws laws and gun crimes in the US - you are forever "BANGING ON" :) about this matter. Are you aware of these tendencies?Greta wrote: ↑December 6th, 2017, 7:21 pm The US looks to me a nation divided, with many seemingly intent on a civil war based on similar fascism/progressivism fault lines that are appearing in many societies. As populations become greater, competition becomes more intense, resulting in increased antipathy between competing subcultures.
In a sense, the nation that is furthest advanced in any particular area effectively acts as a canary in a coal mine for the rest of the world - so we see much authoritarianism in the East and chaos in the subcontinent, demonstrating the results of different approaches to high population density. The US has been most advanced in terms of power, and its rapid decline shows clearly how a nation without serious external competition will compete ever more fiercely internally. Such hubris seems inevitable over time, but in this instance is exacerbated by the intense conflicts and exploitation in the US's relatively short history.
I also note that my above post had nothing to do with guns, so again you are projecting your own foibles on to me.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
"In addition, isn't Dachshund's anti-Muslim bigotry anti-White? Are those "white" Muslims an example of "white superiority"? "
I think that fear leads us to revive old mores such as defences against foreigners. Right-wing politicians use these fears as a means of encouraging people to trust in their leaders who pretend that they are on the same side as the common man who may be of any ethnicity.
"White Muslims" are sometimes objects of suspicion for those among the common people who are misled by extreme right-wing politicians.
The matter of fact is that Muslim violent fanatics have caused fewer violent 'terrorist' attacks than have far- right violent fanatics.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
I think Homeric heroes have far more in common with 19th century Zulus than they did with Kant or Newton. I think that the philosophers of the Middle Ages had far more in common with Muslim thinkers than they do with modern atheism.Dachshund wrote: ↑December 7th, 2017, 9:24 am Londoner,
The White/European Western cultural tradition stretches back to the era of classical Athenian antiquity - to the time of Homer and the golden age of Pericles, to the Roman Empire, then onward through the middle ages in the work of philosophers like , for instance, Saint Augustine, Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas, to the remarkable artistic and scientific achievements of the renaissance and then the Enlightenment - the Age of Reason and it great philosophers like Kant, to the the industrial revolution in 19th century England and then to the dramatic scientific/technological advances of the 20th and 21st centuries.
What is this 'tradition' that is supposed to link these people? We cannot point to anything specific, like Christianity, or democracy, otherwise we would have to throw some things out of your list. But if we make it something vague or discontinuous, like 'artistic accomplishments' or 'ability for abstract thought' then it is no longer going to be unique to White/Europeans/Westerners.
The problem here is not whether 'White/European/western culture' is good or bad, but whether it can be distinguished. You haven't explained exactly what is covered by this description but, after you have done that, what we are looking for is specific features. For example, is it the case that ONLY 'White/European/western culture goes in for genocide? (No). Is it only 'White/European/western culture' that is capable of producing scientists? (No) And so on.Western culture has had its problems - I am not claiming it is always a paragon of virtue, or perfect or absolutely angelic. The 20th century saw the Western culture go through a very "rough patch", it was struggling in thrall of what I would call a a crisis of rationalism ( a crisis of Enlightenment reason) that precipitated horrors like the first world war, the rise of Hitler's totalitarian Third Reich and the Jewish holocaust, Mao's communist "cultural revolution", the brutal reign of Stalinism in Russia, the death of 2 million innocents hacked to death in Pol Pot's Cambodian "killing fields" the nuclear bombing of untold thousands of civilians in Hiroshima, the Cold war arms race and the brinkmanship of total nuclear annihilation that played out during the Cuban missile crisis in September of 1962, all of this as well as many other catastrophic disasters that befell humanity in that brutal and murderous century. The West is still mired in this crisis of rationalism today, but I am confident it will eventually solve the problems it has created, like global warming/climate change, for instance.
What we are looking for is a feature that is always present in 'White/European/western culture' but never present anywhere else. If we can't find any, then 'White/European/westerners' are just 'people'
OK. Then if it is not the case that all 'White/European/western' individuals manifest this CULTURE you write about, then (if there is such a culture) it cannot be the case that this CULTURE is explained simply by them being 'White/European/western'. It must be caused by something else. If it is caused by something else, then there is no reason why that 'something else' cannot apply to non-White or Asian people.As for the matter of individuals in Western civilizations past and present behaving badly, this has nothing to do with my post which was concerned with solely with the matter of White/European Western CULTURE. CULTURE is not a term that refers to the conduct - good, bad or indifferent - of individuals in a society, but rather to the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual activity when considered COLLECTIVELY. Likewise, when I referred to the white/European Western culture as a life-affirming culture, I was not suggesting that INDIVIDUALS of white/European descent are all life-affirming persons; obviously not ALL of them are.
From what you write above, we agree that the CULTURE is not caused by people being 'White/European/western', that there is no necessary link. But in that case, there is no reason why any features of 'White/European/western culture' (good or bad) are special to 'Whites/Europeans/westerners apart from historical accident.Not sure exactly what you mean when you refer to "cause and effect" in the last line of your post?
I will give an example. There are several English but no American top rank cricketers. Does this prove that only English people can play cricket? The arguments against would be (a) Indians and others also play cricket (b) Americans and others play games similar to cricket and (c) not all English people can play cricket. Therefore I would conclude that the correlation between being American and not being a top rank cricketer is accidental, not cause and effect. Likewise, the cause the Industrial Revolution started in England was not because the English have white skin etc.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
It's a silly, jokey attempt to summarise the entire history of the universe, with particular emphasis on global human history, in about 20 minutes. For all its silly jokiness and satire it contains a large amount of more-or-less accurate information about the development of human cultures around the world and their interactions with each other (as long as you combine it with reference to the more serious sources of information which it compliments). My kids love it, even though they would otherwise claim to find history lessons, as taught in schools, boring. I post it here as part of an attempt to show the silliness of pretending that there is a thing called White European culture that needs to be somehow hermetically sealed from any influence by the rest of the world. If it doesn't success in that aim, at least it's a bit of fun.
Here it is. Enjoy. I did.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
Londoner,Londoner wrote: ↑December 8th, 2017, 5:44 amI think Homeric heroes have far more in common with 19th century Zulus than they did with Kant or Newton. I think that the philosophers of the Middle Ages had far more in common with Muslim thinkers than they do with modern atheism.Dachshund wrote: ↑December 7th, 2017, 9:24 am Londoner,
The White/European Western cultural tradition stretches back to the era of classical Athenian antiquity - to the time of Homer and the golden age of Pericles, to the Roman Empire, then onward through the middle ages in the work of philosophers like , for instance, Saint Augustine, Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas, to the remarkable artistic and scientific achievements of the renaissance and then the Enlightenment - the Age of Reason and it great philosophers like Kant, to the the industrial revolution in 19th century England and then to the dramatic scientific/technological advances of the 20th and 21st centuries.
What is this 'tradition' that is supposed to link these people? We cannot point to anything specific, like Christianity, or democracy, otherwise we would have to throw some things out of your list. But if we make it something vague or discontinuous, like 'artistic accomplishments' or 'ability for abstract thought' then it is no longer going to be unique to White/Europeans/Westerners.
Western culture has had its problems - I am not claiming it is always a paragon of virtue, or perfect or absolutely angelic. The 20th century saw the Western culture go through a very "rough patch", it was struggling in thrall of what I would call a a crisis of rationalism ( a crisis of Enlightenment reason) that precipitated horrors like the first world war, the rise of Hitler's totalitarian Third Reich and the Jewish holocaust, Mao's communist "cultural revolution", the brutal reign of Stalinism in Russia, the death of 2 million innocents hacked to death in Pol Pot's Cambodian "killing fields" the nuclear bombing of untold thousands of civilians in Hiroshima, the Cold war arms race and the brinkmanship of total nuclear annihilation that played out during the Cuban missile crisis in September of 1962, all of this as well as many other catastrophic disasters that befell humanity in that brutal and murderous century. The West is still mired in this crisis of rationalism today, but I am confident it will eventually solve the problems it has created, like global warming/climate change, for instance.
The problem here is not whether 'White/European/western culture' is good or bad, but whether it can be distinguished. You haven't explained exactly what is covered by this description but, after you have done that, what we are looking for is specific features. For example, is it the case that ONLY 'White/European/western culture goes in for genocide? (No). Is it only 'White/European/western culture' that is capable of producing scientists? (No) And so on.
What we are looking for is a feature that is always present in 'White/European/western culture' but never present anywhere else. If we can't find any, then 'White/European/westerners' are just 'people'
OK. Then if it is not the case that all 'White/European/western' individuals manifest this CULTURE you write about, then (if there is such a culture) it cannot be the case that this CULTURE is explained simply by them being 'White/European/western'. It must be caused by something else. If it is caused by something else, then there is no reason why that 'something else' cannot apply to non-White or Asian people.As for the matter of individuals in Western civilizations past and present behaving badly, this has nothing to do with my post which was concerned with solely with the matter of White/European Western CULTURE. CULTURE is not a term that refers to the conduct - good, bad or indifferent - of individuals in a society, but rather to the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual activity when considered COLLECTIVELY. Likewise, when I referred to the white/European Western culture as a life-affirming culture, I was not suggesting that INDIVIDUALS of white/European descent are all life-affirming persons; obviously not ALL of them are.
From what you write above, we agree that the CULTURE is not caused by people being 'White/European/western', that there is no necessary link. But in that case, there is no reason why any features of 'White/European/western culture' (good or bad) are special to 'Whites/Europeans/westerners apart from historical accident.Not sure exactly what you mean when you refer to "cause and effect" in the last line of your post?
I will give an example. There are several English but no American top rank cricketers. Does this prove that only English people can play cricket? The arguments against would be (a) Indians and others also play cricket (b) Americans and others play games similar to cricket and (c) not all English people can play cricket. Therefore I would conclude that the correlation between being American and not being a top rank cricketer is accidental, not cause and effect. Likewise, the cause the Industrial Revolution started in England was not because the English have white skin etc.
You query as to whether there is such a thing as "culture". I think it is fair to say that there is and the term "culture" is typically defined as the totality of the attitudes, customs and beliefs that serve distinguish one group of people from another.
Strictly speaking, for the purposes of what we are discussing, I should use the term White/European Western civilzation instead of culture, - a civilization representing the highest cultural grouping of people and the broadest level of cultural identity that people (human beings) can have. What I mean is that the term White/European Western civilization is an extensive ,overarching, meta-construct or "rubric "that subsumes beneath it, many different smaller - sized cultural groupings, all of which can still be classified as legitimate components of (global) White/European Western culture; for example, the British, North American, Australian and Canadian cultures among others. British culture, in turn, is comprised of a mixture of different English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish sub-cultures and their traditions. At a more fined-grained level of analysis white English culture is also seen contains its own rich variety of yet smaller cultural groupings in , for example, then Cornish ,"West Country", Liverpudlian and Cockney cultures and so on; all of which are, as I say bone fide sub-species of White/European Western or Occidental culture.
Now, to get down to the nitty-gritty of your query, i.e. what are the distinctive features- the fundamental, core characteristics that effectively distinguish White/European Western Culture/civilization from other world civilizations like the Islamic , African, Japanese, Confucian, etc; civilizations?
"What we are looking for, you say, is a feature that is always present in White?European Western culture, but never present anywhere else".
OK, that's a very big ask given the monumental scale of the subject matter, so, I can't can't provide you with anything like a comprehensive answer - that would require me to respond with post the size of a large text book (!) nevertheless, I'll do my best to explain the heart of the matter for you.
What fundamentally distinguishes White/European Western culture/ civilization from other civilizations is the notion of RATIONALISM in the various spheres of life, though especiallyly in religion, and ESPECIALLY in the practice of the CHRISTIAN RELIGION. Therefore in answer to your question, I think, is that the feature/s which best distinguishes White/European Western civilization from other major world cultures and their respective civilization its historical commitment to applying the principles of RATIONALISM in the context of CHRISTIAN CULTURE.
To cut a long story very short, White/European Western civilization, throughout most of its history has been nearly equivalent to Christian culture, and a large portion of of the population of the Western hemisphere can be characterized as cultural Christians. In sum, the idea of Europe and the Western world civilization has always been intimately connected with Christianity and the notion of Christendom.
Does that answer your query ?
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
"To cut a long story very short, White/European Western civilization, throughout most of its history has been nearly equivalent to Christian culture, and a large portion of of the population of the Western hemisphere can be characterized as cultural Christians. In sum, the idea of Europe and the Western world civilization has always been intimately connected with Christianity and the notion of Christendom"
Christendom does not mean the same as Christianity. I have an idea that "Christendom" was medieval and has been defunct for centuries. I myself have not seen the word 'Christendom' in use outside of Grimm's fairy tales, as far as I can remember.
True, Christianity has been hugely influential in its ethnic and moral influences and as promoter of some technologies via very organised monasteries. Christianity is properly termed Judeo -Christianity, if you recall. Trade is one way in which ideas are exchanged. Please look at the facts of ancient , medieval, and early modern trade.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
Lets look at a random selection of individuals who have made major contributions to Western culture and note the racial category to which they belong.
Aristotle.....White/European
Plato.....White /European
Socrates.....White/European
Homer.....White/European
Pericles.....White/European
Saint Augustine.....White?European
Duns Scotus.....White/European
Thomas Aquinas.....White/European
The Magna Carta/King John.....White/European
Leonardo Da Vinci.....White/European
Vincent van Gogh.....White Europoean
Rembrandt.....White /European
Michelangelo.....White/European
Niccolo Machiavelli.....White/European
Rene Descartes.....White/European
Baruch Spinoza....White/European
Galileo Galiae....White/European
John Locke.....White/European
Isaac Newton....White/European
Immanual Kant....White European
Voltaire.....White/European
John Donne.....White/European
William Shakespeare.....White/European
Percy Byssche Shelley.....White Europoean
Jane Austen.....White/European
William Blake.....White/European
T.S. Eliot
Robert Boyle.....White/European
Charles Dickens.....White/European
Oscar Wilde.....White/European
Friedrich Neitzsche....White/European
Mozart.....White/European
Beethoven.....White/European
Chopin..... White/European
Christopher Wren.....White/European
Tom Paine.....White/European
Thomas Jefferson.....White/European
Jean-Paul Sartre..... White/European
Marin Heidegger.....White European
Albert Camus.....White/European
Charles Darwin.....White/European
Isambard Kingdom Brunel.....White/European
Max Planck.....White/European
Earnest Rutherford.....White/European
Neils Bohr.....White/european.
Albert Einstein.....White/European
Watson and Crick.....White/European
Steven Hawking.....White/European
Neil Armstrong.....White/European
What has White/European Western culture given us ?
So many good things (!) for example: a general belief in progress based on rational thought which has indeed led to remarkable progress in science and technology and helped to dramatically relieve modern man of famine, want and drudgery along with life saving and life prolonging advances in medical science/technology (the West BTW is responsible for almost every major scientific discovery of the last 500 years from heliocentrism and the telescope to electricity and computers); capitalism and free-ish markets; an unparalleled potential for social mobility , wealth and comfort; universal suffrage and the legal recognition of many other fundamental, universal Human Rights such as those enshrined in the articles of the 1948 UN Declaration of Human Rights which was ratified after end of the Second World War; property rights; liberty as manifested in respect for personal, political and economic freedoms, the right to freedom of conscience, expression and assembly, individualism, self-determination and self-reliance based on free will; religious tolerance, political justice, and the other core principles of representative, republican democratic governance such as equality under - and respect for -for the rule of law, the notion working toward the common good; popular soveriegnty, habeas corpus; the separation of church and state; and respect for, and codification, of the core tenets of Christian morality, such as charity and compassion for those who are suffering or in need, the exhortation to love thy neighbour as thyself and so on; a tremendous legacy of inspirational, life-affirming language, art and literature depicting man as efficacious in the world and celebrating his achievements; the placing of a very high value on the sanctity of private and family life; the university - an institution based on the quest for truth no matter where it leads ( a desire originally inherited from the Greeks of classical antiquity).
* Now let's look at (2): Black African culture/civilization and its key architects and contributors...
No great black-skinned names come to mind, I'm afraid (? !), but I am very aware - in fact, I am constantly reminded -of the chief attributes Black African cultures/civilizations today, namely: Human life is regarded as very cheap. Famine, disease, misery and suffering are often rampant in Black African societies and adequate health care/medical aid/general welfare provisions are effectively non-existent most of the time. Property rights are rare. The rule of law is extremely patchy. Poverty and corruption are rife. And war, when it comes - as it very often does - is spectacularly brutal, with widespread rape, torture, mutilation and no mercy shown to civilians nor women nor children, nor the babies whose heads are smashed against trees.Economic growth is often non-existent, with many local economies even poorer in GDP than they were 50 years ago.
* What about (3): Middle Eastern arabic cultures/civilization, their artistic and intellectual achievements and meritorious contributions to humanity to date?
Well, I suppose the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam and the Arabian Knights is one example, also they apparently gave us the concept of "zero", but apart from this there hasn't been much of worth the Arab race has contributed at all to human culture over the past 500 years. Their culture/"civilization" , however, IS big on stuff like punishing Islamic apostates in theocratic states like Iran, Yemen and Syria with execution, punishing homosexuals by burying them under walls or throwing them off mountains; polygamy and the impregnation of 12 year old child brides, punishing adulterers like women who have been gang-raped, say, by hanging them from cranes or publicly stoning them to death, mutilating the genitalia of young, pubescent girls, generally treating women like second class citizens, rejecting outright, the discourse of Universal, equal Human Rights and the fundamental principles, values and institutions of representative democratic governance, intolerance of other religions and perpetrating appalling acts of violent terrorism ( like the premeditated murder of over 20 young people attending a pop concert in Manchester earlier this year), the waging offensive "holy war "(jihad) against their arch enemies, i.e. the infidels (or "kafirs") living in the West, especially the US ( aka "The Great Satan") and so on.
So, in sum, returning to Western culture/civilization are you sincerely telling me, Londoner, that the strong positive correlation between the fact that Western culture and Western civilization are, without doubt objectively the superior to all other major world Culture/civilizations and the short ( far from exhaustive) representaive list of individuals I provided above who have been key contributors to its success are all (racially) white-skinned (caucasian) Europeans is just an "accident" ?
I DON'T THINK SO !
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
Culture surpasses race dumb dumb!
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
No, I didn't question whether there is an such thing as 'culture'. I questioned whether there was anything that could be described as White/European Western culture, any distinctive thread within the list you gave.Dachshund wrote: ↑December 8th, 2017, 9:29 am
Londoner,
You query as to whether there is such a thing as "culture". I think it is fair to say that there is and the term "culture" is typically defined as the totality of the attitudes, customs and beliefs that serve distinguish one group of people from another.
If you meant CHRISTIAN RELIGION, then you shouldn't have included Homeric and classical Greek culture in your list, or most of Roman civilisation, or much of the west today.What fundamentally distinguishes White/European Western culture/ civilization from other civilizations is the notion of RATIONALISM in the various spheres of life, though especiallyly in religion, and ESPECIALLY in the practice of the CHRISTIAN RELIGION. Therefore in answer to your question, I think, is that the feature/s which best distinguishes White/European Western civilization from other major world cultures and their respective civilization its historical commitment to applying the principles of RATIONALISM in the context of CHRISTIAN CULTURE.
Nor do I understand why Christianity would be described as a sort of RATIONALISM. If you were looking for rational religions, I do not see why it is any more rational than Islam or Judaism. It is a lot less rational than Confucianism or Buddhism, let alone atheism.
I would also point out that many, perhaps most, Christians are not 'White/European Western', (including the founders of that religion). So, if your civilisation/culture is defined by religion, then that civilisation/culture is not White/European Western.
I think that would be to cut the story of White/European Western civilization very short indeed, cutting off both the beginning and the end. It would also be to overlook bits in the middle where that culture/civilisation was fighting amongst itself. That we can now ignore all the ferocious internecine struggles within Christianity by saying 'Yes, but they were still all Christians' is a sign that we are now so indifferent to religion that we cannot understand the passions that moved people in those days. So even when a White/European Westerner still seriously identifies as a Christian, I do not think that culturally they have much connection with the mindset of a Christian in the Middle Ages.To cut a long story very short, White/European Western civilization, throughout most of its history has been nearly equivalent to Christian culture, and a large portion of of the population of the Western hemisphere can be characterized as cultural Christians. In sum, the idea of Europe and the Western world civilization has always been intimately connected with Christianity and the notion of Christendom.
As I wrote before, when you fix on a particular characteristic to define this 'White/European Western civilization' you get stuck. It is either too limiting, excluding things you wanted to include - or it is too vague, thus including Africans and Asians and other people you wanted to exclude.
Are you sure that the real gatekeeper to this club isn't the first thing you mention? Forget trying to make it about rationality or Christianity or anything else. That what is really important here to be White.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
Thought so.Londoner,
Lets look at a random selection of individuals who have made major contributions to Western culture and note the racial category to which they belong.
Aristotle.....White/European
Plato.....White /European
Socrates.....White/European...
So now you can explain how the genes that code for skin pigmentation also code for ability to philosophise etc. Or is it something in European soil or water?
As a White person, and thus naturally endowed by God with RATIONALITY, I'm sure you have thought this through.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
Burning ghost wrote: ↑December 9th, 2017, 4:08 am The birth of civilization stretches back to the middle-east and North Africa. Therefore we're really talking about Middle Eastern and, predominantly, Egyptian culture?
Culture surpasses race dumb dumb!
Get your facts right Burning Ghost. Ancient Greece is considered by all mainstream historians as the birthplace of many of the fundamental elements of Western culture/civilization with the world's first democratic system of government and major advances in philosophy, science and mathematics - DUMB, DUMB !
Regards
John
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
But modern Greece is not particularly known for any of those things, so it cannot be the case that being Greek causes you to be democratic, or good at philosophy, science and mathematics.Dachshund wrote: ↑December 9th, 2017, 7:44 am
Get your facts right Burning Ghost. Ancient Greece is considered by all mainstream historians as the birthplace of many of the fundamental elements of Western culture/civilization with the world's first democratic system of government and major advances in philosophy, science and mathematics - DUMB, DUMB !
Regards
John
Same goes for all your list of white/European achievers. I could post a much much longer list of white/Europeans, who were bad, criminal, stupid or simply nondescript. This shows that being white/European is not a sign that you are a member of some master-race.
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
Londoner wrote: ↑December 9th, 2017, 5:14 amNo, I didn't question whether there is an such thing as 'culture'. I questioned whether there was anything that could be described as White/European Western culture, any distinctive thread within the list you gave.Dachshund wrote: ↑December 8th, 2017, 9:29 am
Londoner,
You query as to whether there is such a thing as "culture". I think it is fair to say that there is and the term "culture" is typically defined as the totality of the attitudes, customs and beliefs that serve distinguish one group of people from another.
If you meant CHRISTIAN RELIGION, then you shouldn't have included Homeric and classical Greek culture in your list, or most of Roman civilisation, or much of the west today.What fundamentally distinguishes White/European Western culture/ civilization from other civilizations is the notion of RATIONALISM in the various spheres of life, though especiallyly in religion, and ESPECIALLY in the practice of the CHRISTIAN RELIGION. Therefore in answer to your question, I think, is that the feature/s which best distinguishes White/European Western civilization from other major world cultures and their respective civilization its historical commitment to applying the principles of RATIONALISM in the context of CHRISTIAN CULTURE.
Nor do I understand why Christianity would be described as a sort of RATIONALISM. If you were looking for rational religions, I do not see why it is any more rational than Islam or Judaism. It is a lot less rational than Confucianism or Buddhism, let alone atheism.
I would also point out that many, perhaps most, Christians are not 'White/European Western', (including the founders of that religion). So, if your civilisation/culture is defined by religion, then that civilisation/culture is not White/European Western.
I think that would be to cut the story of White/European Western civilization very short indeed, cutting off both the beginning and the end. It would also be to overlook bits in the middle where that culture/civilisation was fighting amongst itself. That we can now ignore all the ferocious internecine struggles within Christianity by saying 'Yes, but they were still all Christians' is a sign that we are now so indifferent to religion that we cannot understand the passions that moved people in those days. So even when a White/European Westerner still seriously identifies as a Christian, I do not think that culturally they have much connection with the mindset of a Christian in the Middle Ages.To cut a long story very short, White/European Western civilization, throughout most of its history has been nearly equivalent to Christian culture, and a large portion of of the population of the Western hemisphere can be characterized as cultural Christians. In sum, the idea of Europe and the Western world civilization has always been intimately connected with Christianity and the notion of Christendom.
As I wrote before, when you fix on a particular characteristic to define this 'White/European Western civilization' you get stuck. It is either too limiting, excluding things you wanted to include - or it is too vague, thus including Africans and Asians and other people you wanted to exclude.
Are you sure that the real gatekeeper to this club isn't the first thing you mention? Forget trying to make it about rationality or Christianity or anything else. That what is really important here to be White.
Londoner,
I did not say that Christianity was a type of rationalism.
What I said was that if one is looking for a sole, fundamental ,distinguishing attribute of Western culture/civilization, then many historians would argue that if such a single attribute were for argument's sake ,hypothesised to exist, it would most manifest itself in the way that for the majority of its history, Western culture has characteristically been progressively developed by the blending or infusion of rationalism ( the use of thought/cognition/intellect in the form of logical, inductive, deductive abductive and other forms of reasoning) with the core tenets and values of the Christian faith (
or Christian religious culture). This was exemplified in the writings of the scholastic philosopher/theologian Thomas Aquinas in the middle age. Thomas, through his work synthesized the rationalism of classical Aristotelian philosophy and science with the principles of Christianity in a brilliantly articulated theory of theological reasoning. In fact, Francisco de Vitoria, a disciple of St Thomas, is recognised by United Nations as the father of international law and by historians of economics and democracy as a leading light for the West's democracy and rapid economic development.
Briefly,If you read your history carefully, you will discover that the Catholic Church has pretty much always been at the centre of - and massively influenced -the progressive development of the values, ideas, science, laws and institutions which constitute Western culture/civilization. I can't do this for you.
As to the contemporary West, the overwhelming majority of the citizens of the US, the UK, Australia, Canada, Western Europe still identity as Christian. I agree with you that many of 1.2 billion persons who identify as Christians in advanced Western societies today are in fact "merely" nominal Christian, in the sense that they lack true, personalChristian faith ( i.e. faith in the divinely revealed supernatural knowledge of Biblical scripture), nonetheless, they still give their intellectual assent to the core precepts of Christian morality and other Christian doctrines and are often regular participants in liturgical rites and worship services who are actively involved in the broader spiritual/social life and also the charitable/pastoral work of their local Christian community.
I will deal with the racial aspects of Western culture/civilization in more detail a separate post, but, in the interim I can confirm that, yes, you are correct to say Western culture/civilization is primarily a creation of the (caucasian) White /European race.
Regards
John
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Re: Is white supremacy normal in the USA?
Dachshund wrote: ↑December 9th, 2017, 10:20 amLondoner wrote: ↑December 9th, 2017, 5:14 am
No, I didn't question whether there is an such thing as 'culture'. I questioned whether there was anything that could be described as White/European Western culture, any distinctive thread within the list you gave.
If you meant CHRISTIAN RELIGION, then you shouldn't have included Homeric and classical Greek culture in your list, or most of Roman civilisation, or much of the west today.
Nor do I understand why Christianity would be described as a sort of RATIONALISM. If you were looking for rational religions, I do not see why it is any more rational than Islam or Judaism. It is a lot less rational than Confucianism or Buddhism, let alone atheism.
I would also point out that many, perhaps most, Christians are not 'White/European Western', (including the founders of that religion). So, if your civilisation/culture is defined by religion, then that civilisation/culture is not White/European Western.
I think that would be to cut the story of White/European Western civilization very short indeed, cutting off both the beginning and the end. It would also be to overlook bits in the middle where that culture/civilisation was fighting amongst itself. That we can now ignore all the ferocious internecine struggles within Christianity by saying 'Yes, but they were still all Christians' is a sign that we are now so indifferent to religion that we cannot understand the passions that moved people in those days. So even when a White/European Westerner still seriously identifies as a Christian, I do not think that culturally they have much connection with the mindset of a Christian in the Middle Ages.
As I wrote before, when you fix on a particular characteristic to define this 'White/European Western civilization' you get stuck. It is either too limiting, excluding things you wanted to include - or it is too vague, thus including Africans and Asians and other people you wanted to exclude.
Are you sure that the real gatekeeper to this club isn't the first thing you mention? Forget trying to make it about rationality or Christianity or anything else. That what is really important here to be White.
Londoner,
I did not say that Christianity was a type of rationalism.
What I said was that if one is looking for a sole, fundamental ,distinguishing attribute of Western culture/civilization, then many historians would argue that if such a single attribute were for argument's sake ,hypothesised to exist, it would most probably manifest itself in the way that for the majority of its history, Western culture has characteristically been progressively developed by the blending or infusion of rationalism ( the use of thought/cognition/intellect in the form of logical, inductive, deductive abductive and other forms of reasoning) with the core tenets and values of the Christian faith (or Christian religious culture). This was exemplified in the writings of the scholastic philosopher/theologian Thomas Aquinas in the middle age. Saint Thomas, through his work synthesized the rationalism of classical Aristotelian philosophy and science with the principles of Christianity in a brilliantly articulated theory of theological reasoning. In fact, Francisco de Vitoria, a disciple of St Thomas, is recognised by United Nations as the father of international law and by historians of economics and democracy as a leading light for the West's democracy and rapid economic development.
Briefly,If you read your history carefully, you will discover that the Catholic Church has pretty much always been at the centre of - and massively influenced -the progressive development of the values, ideas, science, laws and institutions which constitute Western culture/civilization. I can't do this for you.
As to Christianity in the contemporary West, the overwhelming majority of the citizens of the US, the UK, Australia, Canada, Western Europe still identity as Christian. I agree with you that many of 1.2 billion such persons who identify as Christians in advanced Western societies today are in fact "merely" nominal Christian, in the sense that they lack true, personalChristian faith ( i.e. faith in the divinely revealed supernatural knowledge of Biblical scripture), nonetheless, they still give their intellectual assent to the core precepts of Christian morality and other Christian doctrines and are often regular participants in liturgical rites and worship services who are actively involved , also,in the broader spiritual/social life and also the charitable/pastoral work of their local Christian community.
I will deal with the racial aspects of Western culture/civilization in more detail a separate post, but, in the interim I can confirm that, yes, you are correct to say Western culture/civilization is primarily a creation of the (caucasian) White /European race.
Regards
John
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023