Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

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Dachshund
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by Dachshund » May 14th, 2018, 8:01 pm

Greta wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 7:13 pm
Could you please rank these four news outlets in your preference?

The Australian
The Daily Telegraph
The Sydney Morning Herald
The Guardian
I prefer to read "The Telegraph" (The British "Telegraph")
I dislike "The Guardian" (as I am allergic to leftist "progressive" liberalism in print )
I do not read "The Australian" (depressing neo-liberal propaganda)
Have never read the SMH (vulgar tabloid)

Morphine is well known to have pronounced emetic properties. Many individuals who are administered the drug experience nausea and vomiting.

Regards

Dachshund

Dachshund
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by Dachshund » May 14th, 2018, 8:23 pm

LuckyR wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 7:32 pm
Please explain to the followers of the thread how much damage, overall, Marijuana has caused as compared to alcohol.
Impossible to quantify for a number of reasons, including the fact the use of cannabis is still illegal in most Western States. The important point is that the scientific research data that we DO have to date re the long and short term effects of cannabis use clearly demonstrates that it is absolutely not a benign drug, and legalising it would almost certainly greatly increase the extent of harm it does already inflict on society.

Regards

Dachshund

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LuckyR
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by LuckyR » May 14th, 2018, 11:29 pm

Dachshund wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 8:23 pm
LuckyR wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 7:32 pm
Please explain to the followers of the thread how much damage, overall, Marijuana has caused as compared to alcohol.
Impossible to quantify for a number of reasons, including the fact the use of cannabis is still illegal in most Western States. The important point is that the scientific research data that we DO have to date re the long and short term effects of cannabis use clearly demonstrates that it is absolutely not a benign drug, and legalising it would almost certainly greatly increase the extent of harm it does already inflict on society.

Regards

Dachshund
No one with an ounce of sense or experience expects any drug to be without risks, just as high fructose corn syrup, tobacco and trans fats all have risk. So pointing out risks isn't enough to warrant illegality, the bar should be: significantly higher risks than common legal products (that the population seems to handle more or less successfully every day.)
"As usual... it depends."

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Greta
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by Greta » May 15th, 2018, 12:10 am

Dachshund wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 8:01 pm
Greta wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 7:13 pm
Could you please rank these four news outlets in your preference?

The Australian
The Daily Telegraph
The Sydney Morning Herald
The Guardian
I prefer to read "The Telegraph" (The British "Telegraph")
I dislike "The Guardian" (as I am allergic to leftist "progressive" liberalism in print )
I do not read "The Australian" (depressing neo-liberal propaganda)
Have never read the SMH (vulgar tabloid)

Morphine is well known to have pronounced emetic properties. Many individuals who are administered the drug experience nausea and vomiting.
So you are a Murdoch man; I recognised the rhetoric in your previous post about weed because Murdoch's papers have been pushing that line about weed for some time.

I can't do stimulants either - not ideal for one whose only prescribed "remedies" are stimulants. I have odd biochemistry - it's a dirty job but someone has to do it.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 15th, 2018, 9:08 am

Greta wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 12:10 am
Morphine is well known to have pronounced emetic properties. Many individuals who are administered the drug experience nausea and vomiting.
[/quote]

What's your point. There are thousands of emetic substances; beer, garlic, tobacco, chocolate, ad infinitem...
It depends on the individual the degree to which properties are expressed. Personally morphine is simply not an emetic. On the contrary, for me as with most people it has the effect of slowing down the digestive system.

Cannabis can be both emetic and antiemetic; slow or speed up the heart; give joy and paranoia; fun and boredom. Knowledge is better than proscription, since when a person wants a thing they will have it.
Regulated supply is the best route. It provides taxation, whilst giving protection to those that choose a legitimate supply. This also reduces crime, and the consequences of crime.
Drug use is not altered by making it illegal, it just makes people criminals.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 15th, 2018, 9:13 am

Dachshund wrote:
May 14th, 2018, 8:23 pm
...absolutely not a benign drug, and legalising it would almost certainly greatly increase the extent of harm it does already inflict on society.

Regards

Dachshund
ALL the evidence, without exception, points completely in the opposite direction. Legalising pot decriminalises millions of people. Money is saved from prison costs, taxation increases from the sale of regulated cannabis, and people are happier, in less pain, and do not resent the state so much as they did.
All positives.

I'd rather live in a country that is re-purposing its empty prisons as art venues, that live in a country that can't afford to pay what is necessary to maintain their over-crowded prisons.

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Greta
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by Greta » May 15th, 2018, 5:25 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 9:08 am
Greta wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 12:10 am
Morphine is well known to have pronounced emetic properties. Many individuals who are administered the drug experience nausea and vomiting.
What's your point. There are thousands of emetic substances; beer, garlic, tobacco, chocolate, ad infinitem...
It depends on the individual the degree to which properties are expressed. Personally morphine is simply not an emetic. On the contrary, for me as with most people it has the effect of slowing down the digestive system. [/quote]
I made it clearly in the post you snipped. It was a personal example to help illustrate just how much individual biochemistry can vary. One person's meat is another's poison is not just hyperbole, it's a literal fact.

Thus one-size-fits-all laws are based on utilitarian averaging, and this averaging is often treated as "reality", as if outliers in this artificial construct are morally or functionally deficient rather than just what they are - outliers.

Dachshund
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by Dachshund » May 16th, 2018, 2:39 am

Greta wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 5:25 pm
I made it clearly in the post you snipped. It was a personal example to help illustrate just how much individual biochemistry can vary. One person's meat is another's poison is not just hyperbole, it's a literal fact.
It is true that every human being has his/her own unique biochemistry; and it is true that because of this there can be substantial differences in the way that different individuals react to a given dose of a particular drug.

There are, for instance, a significant (i.e. non-trivial) number of individuals for whom the administration of ,say, morphine, will generate pronounced emetic effects.

Generally speaking, the higher the total bolus dose of morphine administered, and the more rapidly- acting the dosage form, the more likely a subject is to experience acute emetic side effects.

Morphine is prescribed for analgesia in the case of patients who are suffering from acute or chronic pain. If an average, common or garden variety adult, Joe Citizen, is in pain because he has just broken his leg in multiple places in a car accident, a standard dose of, say, one to two 10 mg morphine tablets every four hours will relieve most , if not all, of his pain without causing any nausea or vomiting.

However, as you say, there are a minority of individuals who happen to be particularly sensitive to morphine's emetic properties, such that even a relatively low orally administered dose of the drug like this will quickly induce severe nausea and/or vomiting.

Also, as I say, when a relatively high dose of an opiate drug is given to Joe Citizen in the form of a rapidly acting dosage form, he will very likely vomit shortly after. For example, if I inject Joe Citizen with say,50 mg of pure heroin ( diacetylmorphine) intravenously, he will probably throw up quite promptly after the injection has been administered. Equally, if you ask any "junkie" about shooting up heroin, they will tell you that when they inject street heroin that is relatively pure (highly concentrated)) intravenously, it will often cause them to vomit ( they say it is the most painless kind of vomiting that you could ever imagine). I remember, for instance, in the 1980s, the pavements outside the pubs and clubs on Oxford Street ( you're from Sydney, right Greta, so you know Oxford Street?) being awash with vomit from injecting heroin addicts every Saturday night.

What do you propose the psychiatric profession ought do with respect to the fact that the official guidelines they have developed for the prescription , by psychiatrists, of psychoactive drugs ( which are indeed based on "utilitarian averaging" as you put it) do not take account that sub-set of individuals who will respond to a given drug in an atypical manner? On the one hand, it is imperative ( for legal and many other reasons) that some kind of firm, official dosage guidelines are set by the profession's regulating authority, in particular for the prescription of addictive substances like morphine and dexamphetamine, on the other, there seems to be no avoiding the need to base official advice about safe dosage on past experience of how the MAJORITY of average adult subjects respond?

If you are suggesting that lay members of the public should be at liberty to lawfully access and self-prescribe whatever doses of whatever type of psychoactive drug they feel are suitable - in their opinion - for their own individual needs (recreational or therapeutic); that is, that all psychoactive substances ought be legalised for public use, I do not agree.

Dachshund
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by Dachshund » May 16th, 2018, 3:22 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 9:13 am
ALL the evidence, without exception, points completely in the opposite direction. Legalising pot decriminalises millions of people. Money is saved from prison costs, taxation increases from the sale of regulated cannabis, and people are happier, in less pain, and do not resent the state so much as they did.
All positives.

I'd rather live in a country that is re-purposing its empty prisons as art venues, that live in a country that can't afford to pay what is necessary to maintain their over-crowded prisons.
Suppose that cannabis is legalised in your State/community.

You get a telephone call from the police one morning saying that your brother or sister, for example, whom you love dearly, BTW, has just been killed in a car accident.

Police have evidence that the driver of the car that ploughed into you brother or sister's car and him/her, had run at red light at speed and a was ( according to a forensic blood test) highly intoxicated on cannabis at the time of the accident.

The police say that there is really not much that they can do, because cannabis is now legal in your community.

How do you feel ?

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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by Dachshund » May 16th, 2018, 3:23 am

The post above should read "and KILLED him/her".

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Greta
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by Greta » May 16th, 2018, 5:21 am

Dachshund wrote:
May 16th, 2018, 2:39 am
If you are suggesting that lay members of the public should be at liberty to lawfully access and self-prescribe whatever doses of whatever type of psychoactive drug they feel are suitable - in their opinion - for their own individual needs (recreational or therapeutic); that is, that all psychoactive substances ought be legalised for public use, I do not agree.
No, not any kind of drug, but weed is hardly a big deal. It's far less dangerous than either booze or cigs.

For the record, one of my old bands played French's Tavern in Oxford St a few times but I don't remember vomit on the streets. I do remember during a break when the band room being flooded by a wave of young punks veritably sprinting down the wooden steps in their Doc Martins - scared the bejesus out of me, especially with all the gear onstage. As it turned out, the cops were checking for underage drinkers :)

I also remember French's wonderful bouncer, Ray, who was as big as the world and similarly shaped. Those who didn't know him were terrified but he was was psychology major and gentle giant for those not causing trouble. No vomit, though, sorry. I knew a few junkies as friends of friends and their messiness was a strong enough advert to stay away from the stuff.

Senile reminiscences aside, obviously there must be limits, but also appreciation of variant biochemistry; at present not enough research has been done (due to illegality) to even know what illegal drugs might be helpful to certain kinds of people at certain doses.

Still, such flexibility may be unrealistic because, as populations and China's influence grow, governance has been trending towards more hardline utilitarian averaging, and less tolerance for the variant. It's easier and cheaper when you are trying to order large societies.

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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by -1- » May 16th, 2018, 10:04 am

Greta wrote:
May 16th, 2018, 5:21 am
.... It's easier and cheaper when you are trying to order large societies.
"Yes, five large societies, please, hold the Anchovies. Plum sauce? Yes, please, on the side... to 234 Oak Street... yes, two large Coke and a small Pepsi... thank you... Oh, hold on, how long will it take? Twenty minutes or under or it's free... great."
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by -1- » May 16th, 2018, 10:10 am

Dachshund wrote:
May 16th, 2018, 3:22 am
Suppose that cannabis is legalised in your State/community.

You get a telephone call from the police one morning saying that your brother or sister, for example, whom you love dearly, BTW, has just been killed in a car accident.

Police have evidence that the driver of the car that ploughed into you brother or sister's car and him/her, had run at red light at speed and a was ( according to a forensic blood test) highly intoxicated on cannabis at the time of the accident.

The police say that there is really not much that they can do, because cannabis is now legal in your community.

How do you feel ?
I would feel like sheat, that's for sure. But how often is this going to occur? To my sister once only, I know that. But how often are kannibalis-crazed drivers going to kill anyone running a red light with high speed?

I don't know the answer.

It's like this, I look at it: there are costs, and there are benefits. Some costs can only be reduced, not eliminated. If people run fewer red lights killing innocent people when everyone uses Kannibalis, than people run red lights killing innocent people using high blood alcohol levels, then I vote for Kannibalis.
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by -1- » May 16th, 2018, 10:14 am

I am immune to the lure of Marijuana. I don't smoke, have in my early twenties and made me paranoid, hungry, and heightened my sexual pleasure. But it was useless otherwise, and a big money-guzzler.

I am also immune to the lure of alcohol or cigarettes.

I have two auto-immune diseases, too, one Arthritis, one Diabetes.

No, thank you please, it only makes me sneeze, and then it makes me hard to find the door.
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Re: Any Questions About Living With Legal Marijuana? Your Area Considering It?

Post by LuckyR » May 16th, 2018, 2:47 pm

Dachshund wrote:
May 16th, 2018, 3:22 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
May 15th, 2018, 9:13 am
ALL the evidence, without exception, points completely in the opposite direction. Legalising pot decriminalises millions of people. Money is saved from prison costs, taxation increases from the sale of regulated cannabis, and people are happier, in less pain, and do not resent the state so much as they did.
All positives.

I'd rather live in a country that is re-purposing its empty prisons as art venues, that live in a country that can't afford to pay what is necessary to maintain their over-crowded prisons.
Suppose that cannabis is legalised in your State/community.

You get a telephone call from the police one morning saying that your brother or sister, for example, whom you love dearly, BTW, has just been killed in a car accident.

Police have evidence that the driver of the car that ploughed into you brother or sister's car and him/her, had run at red light at speed and a was ( according to a forensic blood test) highly intoxicated on cannabis at the time of the accident.

The police say that there is really not much that they can do, because cannabis is now legal in your community.

How do you feel ?
Well, I DO live where MJ is legal. Let me correct some errors, some legal some logical: first of all it is still illegal to drive stoned, similar as the law is for driving drunk (alcohol as you may be aware is also legal, yet there is still DUIA, right?), secondly, my feeling would be identical to my feeling if the same thing happened before the law was passed. That is I would mourn my family member, I would blame the perp who BROKE the law (see above) and chalk it all up, logically, to bad luck (wrong place, wrong time).
"As usual... it depends."

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