How to define antisemitism

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Alias
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Alias » July 20th, 2018, 6:46 pm

Greta wrote:
July 20th, 2018, 6:00 pm
Almost all injuries seem to be genuine, but plenty of them are overplayed. Still, Jews must surely be getting jumpy now because genuine anti-Semitism is probably more widespread than any time for many decades.
And the reasons for that are not just simple "He's a racist"; "She's prejudiced." The rifts and conflicts among tribes of every kind are heightened under stress - and there are enough kinds of stress on peoples, even without the opportunists - of which there is no shortage, either - to egg them on.
But we can't entirely discount Israel's actions in arousing disapprobation.
Holding a grudge, for however long, against a strong tormentor is generally accepted. Taking it out on a weak bystander, much less so.

Steve3007
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Steve3007 » July 26th, 2018, 5:14 am

This story certainly isn't going away.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ial-threat

The three major Jewish newspapers in the UK have joined forces to condemn the Labour leadership as antisemitic and they, plus numerous other people, seem to take the view that anything less than a complete acceptance of the IHRA definition of antisemitism is itself antisemitic. No room for argument on that, they seem to think. It all seems very curious because, as far as I can see, the objection is just to some of the examples of antisemitism given by the IHRA. One example is:

"Claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavour”.

The Labour Party said it was concerned about creating a code that could be “used to deny Palestinians, including Palestinian citizens of Israel and their supporters, their rights and freedoms to describe the discrimination and injustices they face in the language they deem appropriate”.

As somebody with no axe to grind here (I'm not Jewish, I have no strong opinions one way or the other about Israel or Judaism and I'm not a supporter of the Corbyn-led Labour Party) the Labour leadership's objection to this example of supposed antisemitism seems quite reasonable. If somebody looks at the history of the modern state of Israel and decides that various injustices were perpetrated against Palestinians in setting it up, that point could be debated, but it's not antisemitic. It's a point of view.

Mass hysteria is a strange and disturbing thing.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 26th, 2018, 5:18 am

Steve3007 wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 5:14 am
This story certainly isn't going away.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ial-threat

The three major Jewish newspapers in the UK have joined forces to condemn the Labour leadership as antisemitic
The British establishment will leave no stone unturned, will forebear on no intrigue; will stop at nothing to prevent Jeremy Corbyn from becoming PM.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 26th, 2018, 5:20 am

Steve3007 wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 5:14 am
Mass hysteria is a strange and disturbing thing.
Mass hysteria in this case is a set of lies offered to us by a media which is comprised of right wingers. Many of them Jewish, or in business with Jews.

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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Steve3007 » July 26th, 2018, 5:21 am

This hysteria clearly can't be dismissed as the "British Establishment" trying to discredit Jeremy Corbyn.

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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Steve3007 » July 26th, 2018, 5:24 am

Mass hysteria in this case is a set of lies offered to us by a media which is comprised of right wingers. Many of them Jewish, or in business with Jews.
If this kind of comment represented the views of the current Labour leadership then I'd take back what I said about hysteria and conclude that the editors or the Jewish newspapers and the various Labour MPs have got a point and that the old lies about sinister Jewish conspiracies really are still alive and well. But I don't suppose it does.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 26th, 2018, 5:25 am

Steve3007 wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 5:24 am
Mass hysteria in this case is a set of lies offered to us by a media which is comprised of right wingers. Many of them Jewish, or in business with Jews.
If this kind of comment represented the views of the current Labour leadership then I'd take back what I said about hysteria and conclude that the editors or the Jewish newspapers and the various Labour MPs have got a point and that the old lies about sinister Jewish conspiracies really are still alive and well. But I don't suppose it does.
What part of my post do you think it unfactual?

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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Steve3007 » July 26th, 2018, 5:25 am

Come on ThomasHobbes, call me a moron or an idiot. That appears to be your usual rejoinder to most people who disagree with you.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 26th, 2018, 5:27 am

Steve3007 wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 5:21 am
This hysteria clearly can't be dismissed as the "British Establishment" trying to discredit Jeremy Corbyn.
Do you think that antisemitism was invented by Jeremy Corbyn?
Come on ThomasHobbes, call me a moron or an idiot. That appears to be your usual rejoinder to most people who disagree with you.
Please indicate what part of my post is not factual?



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ThomasHobbes
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 26th, 2018, 5:32 am

https://thepaperboy.azureedge.net/front ... 18_400.jpg

This article is not a matter of opinion but a complete out and out lie.

I can do this all day long

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 26th, 2018, 5:33 am

This one is particularly ridiculous.

How do you explain this?
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/320/cpspr ... pt2017.jpg

Steve3007
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Steve3007 » July 26th, 2018, 5:36 am

Mass hysteria in this case is a set of lies offered to us by a media which is comprised of right wingers. Many of them Jewish, or in business with Jews.
Mass hysteria is not a set of lies. They are objecting to the Labour leadership not adopting a particular definition of antisemitism. Where's the lie in that? It's inaccurate to characterise all of the objections as coming from right-wingers, and therefore suggest that the objections are about left-versus-right politics.

Saying "Many of them Jewish, or in business with Jews" is true. But the truths we choose to point out and those we choose not to point out are often significant.

Steve3007
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Re: How to define antisemitism

Post by Steve3007 » July 26th, 2018, 5:37 am

ow do you explain this?
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/320/cpspr ... pt2017.jpg
I explain it as the front page of an openly anti-Labour and even more anti-Corbyn Daily Mail. Your point?

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