Understanding Trump's Use of Language

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Georgeanna
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Georgeanna »

Steve3007 wrote: November 1st, 2018, 4:58 am I think the idea of analysing the use of language by each other, on this website, is an interesting one. I'd be interested to see a topic started on that subject. We all have easy access to every word that each other has said since first coming here, so there's lots of material from which to draw. The only snag I can see is that, arguably, the whole raison d'être of such a topic would be to break some of the forum rules.
I agree it would be fascinating. What would be the aim of such a study ?
How would you go about it ? Corpus linguistics is quite a tedious business and I'm not sure that it is worth the effort.
The language of hate of white supremacist analysed.

https://www.taylorfrancis.com/books/9781317552604
Andrew Brindle analyzes a corpus of texts taken from a white supremacist web forum which refer to the subject of homosexuality, drawing conclusions about the discourses of extremism and the dissemination of far-right hate speech online. The website from which Brindle’s corpus is drawn, Stormfront, has been described as the most powerful active influence in the White Nationalist movement (Kim 2005). Through a linguistic analysis of the data combining corpus linguistic methodologies and a critical discourse analysis approach, Brindle examines the language used to construct heterosexual, white masculinities, as well as posters’ representations of gay men, racial minorities and other out-groups, and how such groups are associated by the in-group. Brindle applies three types of analysis to the corpus: a corpus-driven approach centered on the study of frequency, keywords, collocation and concordance analyses; a detailed qualitative study of posts from the forum and the threads in which they are located; and a corpus-based approach which combines the corpus linguistic and qualitative analyses. The analysis of the data demonstrates a convergence of reactionary responses to not only women, gay men and lesbians, but also to racial minorities. Brindle’s findings suggest that due to the forum format of the data, topics are discussed and negotiated rather than dictated unilaterally as would be the case in a hierarchical organization. This research-based study of white supremacist discourse on the Internet facilitates understanding of hate speech and the behavior of extremist groups, with the aim of providing tools to combat elements of extremism and intolerance in society.
Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Steve3007 »

I agree it would be fascinating. What would be the aim of such a study ?
Ostensibly, the aim would be to take a critical look at the way in which we interpret each other's words and the assumptions we make about each other, with various levels of justification, based on those words; the type of person we infer from the words on a screen. Those words are the only information we have about each other. We can't see a face. We can't observe behaviour or expression. We can't smell each other's breath, as it were.

But it would also be to have a pop at each other for fun.
Georgeanna
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Georgeanna »

'But it would also be to have a pop at each other for fun.'
:) Well then, in that case, you go start the thread...then stand well back...

I think we could take bets on the instances of certain words by certain people, then divide it by 4 and whirl it around the bushes awhile...
Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Steve3007 »

:) Well then, in that case, you go start the thread...then stand well back...
Yes, quite. I was joking of course, but also (I like to think) being pragmatic about the way that conversations often tend to go.
Georgeanna
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Georgeanna »

Jklint wrote: October 31st, 2018, 8:01 pm
Georgeanna wrote: October 31st, 2018, 4:42 am
Trump sayings at brainyquotes.

https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/donald_trump
I was hoping to find a brainy quote somewhere among all the ones given. Most are simply vulgar and the best are at best conventional. To call these "brainy" defaults to fake news.
:)
I think someone at brainyquotes must have a wicked sense of humour.

There are a few beauties:

Do you mind if I sit back a little? Because your breath is very bad.
Owning a great golf course gives you great power.
I actually don't have a bad hairline.
Private jets cost a lot of money.
Dachshund
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Dachshund »

Steve3007 wrote: November 1st, 2018, 6:41 am
:) Well then, in that case, you go start the thread...then stand well back...
Yes, quite. I was joking of course, but also (I like to think) being pragmatic about the way that conversations often tend to go.
I think I'll give it a shot, using Greta ("Funky - G") as my subject.

I recently became interested in the field of linguistic anthropology, (a discipline which examines the links between language and culture), and I thought it would be interesting to analyse at a random sample of Greta's posts from through this lens.

As you may know, Greta and I are frequent "sparring partners" on the forum; typically I wind her up for being a silly, liberal "squirrel-brain" and she reacts on cue by denouncing me as a rabid white nationalist , etc.. It's all basically harmless banter really, nothing genuinely nasty or hurtful is ever intended ( well, certainly not by myself). I mean, we do both have basic point/s to make in our exchanges on whatever issue it is that has been on the table for discussion in thread "X" or "Y" , but any shouting matches that blow up are pretty much just horse-play ( usually provoked, I must confess, by my teasing). Anyway, to continue. Recently on this thread, Greta had a "pop" at me again for being a rabid racist, saying (amongst other things)...


"Firstly, you are a racist.
Secondly, I am not a "leftist". Rather, you are an extremist of the right which makes logic and centrism appear left wing...
(and)... it is not even worth correcting you in your thickheaded, Aryan rant about your fellow human beings whose skin happens to produce
pigment."


My response was to tell her that referring to me ( in disparaging terms) as an obnoxious, racist "oik" was a bit rich given that, in my opinion, she herself was, ironically, a white (Anglo-Saxon) supremist; her chief problem being that she simply lacked sufficient personal insight to realise the fact. So, briefly, I told her that I could demonstrate the fact through an analysis of the characteristic features of her prose style as they were expressed in a goodly sample of forum posts that I had over the past few days taken the opportunity to investigate.

For Greta, who is, politically speaking, something along the lines of -( I think ?) - a social democrat, the term "racist" necessarily carries a heavy, negative moral loading; it evokes the passions of hatred, contempt, disgust and so on. (And discussions about such topics as racial genetics are, in particular, very much taboo these days - way beyond the pale of polite, civilized society). Although she could not possibly have been expected to know it, when I said to her that I believed she was an unwitting, "White (Anglo-Saxon) racist of the first order", for me, the phrase "racist of the first order" was used to connote a stance/status bearing witness to noble attributes such as: loyalty, allegiance, righteous pride, reverence and love for one's native culture; its values, its customs, its inherited traditions, its statutory institutions and so on.

It was NOT my intention to indict Greta with the charge of hate-mongering or intolerance. The fact is, I personally interpret the terms "White (Anglo-Saxon) racist" or "White (Europid) supremacist" to refer to one who believes that their own culture is objectively superior to other racial/ethnic cultures, BUT that this does not, in any way, therefore entail/justify the harmful mistreatment of those (lesser) cultures, rather, the duty to exercise a diligent and sincerely kind-hearted paternal stewardship /"noblesse oblige."

So, finally, if there are no objections, I will post my analysis of Greta's language in a new OP on this thread anon. There will, BTW, be no nasty/hurtful/insulting personal comments made my exposition (truth be known, I actually quite like Greta as sometimes she can be very funny; - a "squirrel-brain" -, but very funny. :lol:


Regards


Dachshund
Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Steve3007 »

Dachshund wrote:BUT that this does not, in any way, therefore entail/justify the harmful mistreatment of those (lesser) cultures, rather, the duty to exercise a diligent and sincerely kind-hearted paternal stewardship /"noblesse oblige."
viewtopic.php?p=313950#p313950
Dachshund wrote:As for your own primitive, spear-chucking, moko-faced, haka-dancing "culture", guess what ? it' stone - cold dead, bro'., that's what Stream-rollered flat by the objectively superior cultural values, morality, customs, institutions social manners and mores of modern white/European Western civilization. Game over.You should bear in mind at all times that you are very LUCKY to have be permitted to reside in this country; if a lot of people, (myself included), had their way you would not be.
viewtopic.php?p=318789#p318789
Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Steve3007 »

Dachshund, on the occasions when you're proposing that people whom you regard as your intellectual inferiors should be treated kindly and paternalistically (as opposed to the occasions when you're proposing that they should be wiped out or driven from their native lands), your views about them seem to fit quite well with your views about the treatment of non-human animals. For example, in another recent topic you've told us your views about the evils of blood sports. You've also previously shared with us your thoughts as to how, in your view, the human inhabitants of Africa reassemble monkeys.

So is it fair to summarise your view of the humans who are intellectually inferior to yourself by saying that you think they should be treated similarly to the way in which non-human animals in zoos and wildlife sanctuaries ought to be treated? With due respect for their physical well-being? If so, wouldn't it clarify things if we re-defined the word "person" to include only those homo sapiens who physically and mentally resemble yourself?
Fooloso4
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Fooloso4 »

Daschund:
And discussions about such topics as racial genetics are, in particular, very much taboo these days
Since you have accused me of the same I will respond.

The fact of the matter is that it is evident that you do not want to discuss this topic. If you did you would have responded to my post pointing to non-genetic factors that help explain the results of the IQ studies. The problem is that this research and programs to eliminate the causal factors undermine your desperate need to establish your own superiority based on false conclusions from the IQ studies.

You are a proud member of the "white supremacist milk chuggers":
Why White Supremacists Are Chugging Milk (and Why Geneticists Are Alarmed) https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/us/w ... e-dna.html
The topic of the article is:
… the recurring appropriation of the field’s research in the name of white supremacy.
Case in point:
One slide Dr. Novembre has folded into his recent talks depicts a group of white nationalists chugging milk at a 2017 gathering to draw attention to a genetic trait known to be more common in white people than others — the ability to digest lactose as adults. It also shows a social media post from an account called “Enter The Milk Zone” with a map lifted from a scientific journal article on the trait’s evolutionary history.

In most of the world, the article explains, the gene that allows for the digestion of lactose switches off after childhood. But with the arrival of the first cattle herders in Europe some 5,000 years ago, a chance mutation that left it turned on provided enough of a nutritional leg up that nearly all of those who survived eventually carried it. In the post, the link is accompanied by a snippet of hate speech urging individuals of African ancestry to leave America. “If you can’t drink milk,” it says in part, “you have to go back.”

In an inconvenient truth for white supremacists, a similar bit of evolution turns out to have occurred among cattle breeders in East Africa. Scientists need to be more aware of the racial lens through which some of their basic findings are being filtered, Dr. Novembre says, and do a better job at pointing out how they can be twisted.

Latching onto isolated facts from scientific studies tells us nothing about race, but it tells us a great deal about “white supremacist milk chuggers”.
Georgeanna
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Georgeanna »

Well, I had never heard of 'white supremacist milk chuggers' before and wondered how this might tie in with understanding Trump's language.

So, here he is talking about 'local milk people' !! Can we assume he is talking about his faithful followers ?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ires-memes

A newly published transcript of the phone call between the US president and the Australian prime minister shows the pair discussing a deal made under the Obama administration to resettle to the US more than 1,000 refugees currently held in Australia’s offshore detention centres.

It’s a deal that Trump is not happy with and he made it clear during what was an awkward and combative phone conversation back in January. Trump said the refugees – who are mostly from Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan and Pakistan – would go on to be the next Boston bombers, which Turnbull pointed out was unlikely since the Boston bombers came from Russia. No matter, Trump was still very displeased.

“I hate taking these people. I guarantee you they are bad. That is why they are in prison right now. They are not going to be wonderful people who go on to work for the local milk people.”
Steve3007
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Steve3007 »

In other news: apparently Lyin' Ted Cruz's poll majority in Texas has shrunk to 3%. If he loses his seat that will be quite funny.

These mid-term things look like a lot of fun. We should introduce them in Britain. MPs should be up for re-election every 4 years, and the Queen should be up for re-election every 4 years, staggered by 2 years. And after 8 years her and the first man (the D of E) would be out.
Georgeanna
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Georgeanna »

Steve3007 wrote: November 1st, 2018, 1:09 pm These mid-term things look like a lot of fun. We should introduce them in Britain. MPs should be up for re-election every 4 years, and the Queen should be up for re-election every 4 years, staggered by 2 years. And after 8 years her and the first man (the D of E) would be out.
Can you imagine that most gentlemanly of royals, the Duke of Edinburgh speaking his mind at a rally ?
He must be so frustrated at only being able to express the occasional 'amiable gaffe'.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opini ... 26234.html
If you stay here much longer you'll all be slitty-eyed" (to a group of British students during a royal visit to China).

"You can't have been here that long, you haven't got pot belly" (to a Briton he met in Hungary).

"Aren't most of you descended from pirates?" (to a wealthy islander in the Cayman Islands).

"How do you keep the natives off the booze long enough to pass the test" (to a Scottish driving instructor).

"It looks as if it was put in by an Indian" (referring to an old-fashioned fuse box in a factory near Edinburgh).

"Still throwing spears?" (question put to an Aboriginal Australian during a visit).

"There's a lot of your family in tonight" (after looking at the name badge of businessman Atul Patel at a Palace reception for British Indians).

"The Philippines must be half-empty as you're all here running the NHS" (on meeting a Filipino nurse at Luton and Dunstable Hospital).
Fooloso4
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by Fooloso4 »

Georgeanna:
Well, I had never heard of 'white supremacist milk chuggers' before and wondered how this might tie in with understanding Trump's language.

So, here he is talking about 'local milk people' !! Can we assume he is talking about his faithful followers ?
The local milk people are the suppliers for the white supremacist milk chuggers. I think you are on to something. It makes sense. No foreign milk people or foreign cows, unless they are from places like Norway.
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LuckyR
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by LuckyR »

Burning ghost wrote: November 1st, 2018, 2:31 am LuckyR -

As the aim of this thread appears to be about drawing conclusions about people’s speech it is interesting to see how quick/ready we are to respond to things that impact upon our moral sensibilities.

Trump’s use of language is that of a businessman negotiating and manipulating his customers/clients/opponents in orer to make a deal that suits his businesses needs. At the moment his “business” is the US. I imagine his attitude and talk is not much different from what you’d hear in any boardroom meeting about how to revivify said business.

There is a lot of crossover between governmental positions and business positions. Trump seems unwilling to curb his speech to suit the position he is in and he also seems more than willing to suffer the consequences. Why is anyone shocked by his rhetoric? He is a “businessman” not a politician. If you look at those who achieve a lot in the business world they are not usually the kind of people ready and willing to mix their words to make people feel better. They set targets, taek risks, and keep people guessing.

I imagine a lot of the votes in the US, as well as in the UK, fell they way they fell due to people being wise enough today to recognise condescension, the naivety of youthful voters, the converative values of the elderly, and the intense level of carpet-bombing everyone with floods of information. Give someone 20 choices and they’ll take a year deciding - by which time the landscape would’ve shifted so much as to make the choice as good as null and void - yet give them 2 or 3 options and they’ll come to a quicker and steadier decision. All the politicians need to do is plan out a course of action by which the citizens are left with a pathway of reduced questions that lead to a conclusive decision (I say that is ALL they need to do like it is simplistic!)

Our species has not long been living in such large numbers. Populations have exponentially grown - go back to the 18th and 19th century and teh largest cities were 100,000 and then rose quickly to 1 million. Now we’re struggling to adapt our governmental systems to this. Maybe online voting will become a part of how decisions are made in the near future. Maybe a true democracy is on the way? Would it be “better” or “worse”?
Well, Putin, for one, is certainly hoping the west moves quickly in that direction. It would be so much more efficient for him...
"As usual... it depends."
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LuckyR
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Re: Understanding Trump's Use of Language

Post by LuckyR »

Dachshund wrote: November 1st, 2018, 3:26 am
LuckyR wrote: November 1st, 2018, 2:11 am

I can't really blame you for trying to draw conclusions about folks you don't really know based on their use of language and ideas, since lots have already done that on your behalf.
You don't say, Lucky ?! I would never have thought there would be so many forum members/guests who were competent linguistic anthropologists !

Regards

Dachshund
This may or may not surprise you, but it does not actually require a degree in linguistic anthropology to drawn a (at least partially correct) conclusion about someone you don't know based on their use of language and ideas.
"As usual... it depends."
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