Patriotism

[Monkey]

And what would have been of the prevalence of liberty, not only in America but also in the world, if it weren't for the militias that liberated the country in the first place?

Granted, I agree that we shouldn't be the "Liberty Police" ... the rest of the world can live in chains if they wish ... but it is only when individuals are willing to band together to protect their own collective freedoms that liberty can exist in any society.

It was also the militia that brought in governments that violated the very meaning of liberty, i.e. Soviet Union, Myanmar Junta, etc.

If we are going to have men with guns running around the place, "defending their liberties", we debase the logic of having a government! Because then right-winger militia could say "Obama is violating my liberties!" and overthrow the government or a racist militia could say "Mexicans are violating my liberties!" and massacre Mexicans. Is this what you want?

The whole "liberty" thing is idealistic and greatly flawed because true liberty in the sense of

a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.

as quoted from my dictionary would mean anarchy! Complete anarchy! Murderers would murder, pillagers would pillage, robbers would rob and society would not function. This is what you want?

And what you said about

the rest of the world can live in chains if they wish

is utter nonsense. America is not the only country with "liberty".

[whitetrshsoldier]

It was also the militia that brought in governments that violated the very meaning of liberty, i.e. Soviet Union, Myanmar Junta, etc.

If we are going to have men with guns running around the place, "defending their liberties", we debase the logic of having a government! Because then right-winger militia could say "Obama is violating my liberties!" and overthrow the government or a racist militia could say "Mexicans are violating my liberties!" and massacre Mexicans. Is this what you want?

If we are going to have a government who renders impotent the ability of its citizens to oppose oppression, we debase [to some extent] its purpose as well, don't we?

The whole "liberty" thing is idealistic and greatly flawed because true liberty in the sense of

a. The condition of being free from restriction or control.

as quoted from my dictionary would mean anarchy! Complete anarchy! Murderers would murder, pillagers would pillage, robbers would rob and society would not function. This is what you want?

You've missed the most important portions of the definition of the word ...

lib·er·ty (lĭb'ər-tē) n.
1. a.The condition of being free from restriction or control.
b.The right and power to act, believe, or express oneself in a manner of one's own choosing.
c.The condition of being physically and legally free from confinement, servitude, or forced labor.

Liberty does not free one up to murder, pillage, or rob. Liberty allows people to be "free from confinement, servitude, and forced labor". It guarantees that they may "act, believe, or express" themselves however they wish; UNTIL THEY VIOLATE ANOTHER'S LIBERTIES.

If one man infringes upon another man's right to liberty, he forfeits his own. It's a very basic and simple concept, formed long ago, that I believe most people understand when they think of the concept of "freedom" or "liberty".

And what you said about

the rest of the world can live in chains if they wish

is utter nonsense. America is not the only country with "liberty".

I said they "may" do so if they wish, not that they do. It's not my right or responsibility to make that decision for them.

[Eckhart Aurelius Hughes]

Moderators note: I moved the posts discussing race and man's alleged violent nature to a new thread because they had gotten on such a tangent that they were pretty much off-topic which was particularly likely to derail the because the claims made and what I see racism expressed is very controversial, disagreeable and offensive to almost anyone. Please make sure to stay on-topic, especially when saying something with which many others will likely disagree or is otherwise conducive to a large volume of response and follow-up discussion.

[Above us only sky]

Is patriotism evil?

Here are the definitions of two words from merriam-webster.com
Patriotism: love or devotion for one’s own country
Nationalism: a feeling that people have of being loyal to and proud of their country often with the belief that it is better and more important than other countries

Nationalism and Patriotism are two words used to describe the same thing, the difference of those two words is only this: “nationalism” is more often used to describe people of OTHER countries’ patriotism, therefore it contains a negative tone, it is bad, while “patriotism” is more used by ourselves, therefore it is positive, it is good.

If we explore this concept of Patriotism or nationalism, we can find there is really nothing good and nice about it: Patriotism or nationalism, is merely the egos of the individuals who happened to be living in the same turf manifested collectively. I suspect the concept of patriotism or nationalism is related to humans’ “herd instinct” in some way.
And this is a very useful tool for any government and politicians. The usage of it is this: for any ruling elite of government in the process of losing legitimacy, this government can increase its support by first creating a defeatable enemy then defeating it, before defeating this created enemy, it will use its propaganda machine to tell its people how this enemy will hurt their country; Only after people’s “patriotism” being warmed up enough and the people finally rally behind the government, can the government make the final move to “defeat” the created enemy.

For example, the economic situation in Russia is deteriorating in recent years, but after the annexation of Crimea by Russia, Putin’s support rate in Russia reached an overwhelmingly 90%.

If this is so, then is patriotism evil?