Defining Freedom

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
Post Reply
Synthesis
Posts: 189
Joined: July 15th, 2017, 12:54 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Synthesis »

Present awareness wrote:The ability to physically move, without restraint, would be physical freedom. The ability to think without any kind of mind control, would be mental freedom. The ability to feel emotions as they arise, without suppression, would be emotional freedom. We do not have the freedom to defy laws of nature, like gravity for example, but we may live freely within those natural laws. I would define freedom as unrestricted movement, be it physical, mental, emotional or spiritual. Water is like freedom in action. Water in a river, has the freedom to flow over, under or around any object on it’s way to the lowest point. Water has the freedom to flow or be still, whatever circumstances dictate.
You speak from a ego-centric POV. If we take your site name literally, "present awareness" might suggest that the conditions under which we exist are every changing moment to moment, and therefore we must do what we must [moment to moment] without consideration of what freedom might be about. Living in the moment with full awareness supersedes any notion that freedom is an issue outside of our ego-based need to sink into the duality of that which is knowable.

Freedom does not exist any more than does all of the notions we affix names to [every damn thing].
User avatar
Present awareness
Posts: 1389
Joined: February 3rd, 2014, 7:02 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Present awareness »

Synthesis wrote:
Present awareness wrote:The ability to physically move, without restraint, would be physical freedom. The ability to think without any kind of mind control, would be mental freedom. The ability to feel emotions as they arise, without suppression, would be emotional freedom. We do not have the freedom to defy laws of nature, like gravity for example, but we may live freely within those natural laws. I would define freedom as unrestricted movement, be it physical, mental, emotional or spiritual. Water is like freedom in action. Water in a river, has the freedom to flow over, under or around any object on it’s way to the lowest point. Water has the freedom to flow or be still, whatever circumstances dictate.
You speak from a ego-centric POV. If we take your site name literally, "present awareness" might suggest that the conditions under which we exist are every changing moment to moment, and therefore we must do what we must [moment to moment] without consideration of what freedom might be about. Living in the moment with full awareness supersedes any notion that freedom is an issue outside of our ego-based need to sink into the duality of that which is knowable.

Freedom does not exist any more than does all of the notions we affix names to [every damn thing].

I may only speak from the only POV that I have, which is my own POV. The only moment in which life may exist is the present moment. Regardless of how long you may have lived, or how long you hope to live, if you are not alive now, then you won’t be reading this statement.

I do not claim that freedom exists, I only giving a definition of what freedom may look like. All definitions, as with all human concepts, are only useful to humans as a way to make sense of things. A deer in the forest, cares nothing about our abstract thinking and gets along fine, just the same.
Even though you can see me, I might not be here.
Synthesis
Posts: 189
Joined: July 15th, 2017, 12:54 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Synthesis »

Present awareness wrote:
The only moment in which life may exist is the present moment.
I might suggest that existence is illusory because the present moment is inaccessible [intellectually].
User avatar
Present awareness
Posts: 1389
Joined: February 3rd, 2014, 7:02 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Present awareness »

Since everything is temporary, why not use your illusion, while it is here?
Even though you can see me, I might not be here.
Synthesis
Posts: 189
Joined: July 15th, 2017, 12:54 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Synthesis »

Present awareness wrote:Since everything is temporary, why not use your illusion, while it is here?
Because it will lead you astray. The clearer you can perceive, the more accurate can be your response.
Togo1
Posts: 541
Joined: September 23rd, 2015, 9:52 am

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Togo1 »

Synthesis wrote:
Present awareness wrote:Since everything is temporary, why not use your illusion, while it is here?
Because it will lead you astray. The clearer you can perceive, the more accurate can be your response.
Astray from what? If reality is an illusion, what are you being led astray from?
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14995
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Sy Borg »

Synthesis wrote:
Present awareness wrote:
The only moment in which life may exist is the present moment.
I might suggest that existence is illusory because the present moment is inaccessible [intellectually].
What is the word for illusion with actual consequences? Reality? :)

If reality occurs so quickly (Planck seconds) that we can only partially perceive it then they does not render our perceptions illusory, just incomplete.

Given that no life forms can survive in isolation from other life, and given that other life forms tend to compete with you and restrict your movements, we are never truly free, and if we were truly free we would not last long. It's the old "can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em" situation. The lack of respite, plus the fact that we all must kill and displace others to live, is perhaps why so many ancients believed that life on Earth was a level of Hades.
User avatar
SimpleGuy
Posts: 338
Joined: September 11th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by SimpleGuy »

Freedom is not primarily a physical freedom but at first a mental freedom of spirit and mind. Endowed from this definition the mind itself rules all matters in basic priniciple no matter how far your physical inihibition is. Just take as an example Stephen Hawkin.

-- Updated November 13th, 2017, 12:34 pm to add the following --

Freedom is the freedom of thought and education as well as to act as an equal citizen endowed with the same rights as everyone else free in choice according to the law.
gad-fly
Posts: 1133
Joined: October 23rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by gad-fly »

Going through Scott's above-titled post on March 25, 2008, together with 395 replies, is very instructive, but the task is also very daunting. The post begins by asking readers to "check out my definition of freedom: What freedom means to me".

Normally, I look for definition in the dictionary, which has freedom defined as below:
1. personal liberty, from slavery, etc.
2. liberty or deliverance from confinement, etc.
3. the quality or state of being free.
4. without something unpleasant or bad.
5. the right of unrestricted use or access.
6. autonomy, self-government, or independence.
7. the power or authority to order one's own actions.
8. the quality, esp. of the will or the individual, of being unrestrained by physical determinants, destiny, etc.
9. ease of frankness of manner, candor, etc.
10. excessive familiarity of manner; boldness.
11. ease and grace, as of movement; lack of effort.

I can see that those taking part in the discussion may find the need to override or moderate what is in the dictionary. I suggest that it is time for Scott to review his definition and present it concisely for all to share. Otherwise the effort by so many may be wasted or forgotten with the pass of time. The definition should preferably be numbered for easy reference.
gad-fly
Posts: 1133
Joined: October 23rd, 2019, 4:48 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by gad-fly »

Scott wrote: March 25th, 2008, 4:59 pm If you have not already, check out my definition of freedom: What Freedom Means to Me

What do you think? Do you agree with my definition? Do you support 'freedom' as I have defined it?

Do you think my definition accurate represents what most people mean by 'freedom' in the political sense?

If you disagree with my definition of freedom, how would you define it?

Thanks,
Scott
No, I disagree.

"Freedom starts with a principle of self-control, also known as self-ownership. In a free society, each and every person has legal control (or "ownership") of their own body and mind."

Freedom starts with the removal of bondage. No one is completely free until every bondage is removed.

"As such, the concept of freedom refers to a certain type of political empowerment. It refers specifically to equal empowerment. In other words, a free society is one with an equal distribution of legal rights and in which each and every person has as much legal rights as possible."

There are two categories of freedom: Personal and Political. Personal freedom does not require empowerment, because it flows out naturally, in human and animals. Political freedom, better termed 'liberty', arises from social organization inhuman society. Such empowerment may not necessarily be equal, only best if can be, unless that free society is a perfect society.

"Because freedom entails political equality, freedom can only logically entail as much legal rights as compatible with the same legal rights in others. In a free society, any one person cannot have so many legal rights that all other people could not logically have the same amount of legal rights."

'Legal rights' is a different issue. if one infringes on the legal right of another, he may suffer the consequence, or no consequence. He can have the freedom to wager.

"freedom does not include the legal right to non-defensively punch other people in the face against their will because freedom includes the legal right to not be offensively punched."

Personal freedom should allow one to punch another in the face (without invitation), offensively. Legal right is exogenous restriction on freedom. not part of it.

By the way, I have not heard from Scott for some time. If he does not respond here, please help me to send him my best regards.
Post Reply

Return to “Philosophy of Politics”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021