Defining Freedom

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Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
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Subatomic God
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Subatomic God »

Granth wrote:
1. "Do ideas come to you?"

They arise in consciousness just as everything I experience does.
Why say "I experience", if ideas are alien to your observation?
2. "Or do you come to them?"

There is no coming or going and no to and from. Things and ideas simply arise. They form.
Then what is "I" or "you", but information?
3. "Why when an idea enlightens you, you're shocked by it as everyone else that can see wisdom in it?

I have not had the experience of shock accompanying an experience of a particularly interesting idea. I have had an experience of disappearance into 'enlightenment' and shock did not follow or accompany it.
Expound.
4. 'Why do wise men sometimes infer that what they say is not their own words, but something "deeper"?'

Because such "wise men" know that all phenomena, including words, thoughts, ideas, arise in the consciousness that is not their own just as the body/mind/personality of their most consistant 'everyday' experience (within which it merely seems ideas arise) is also not their own. All bodies arise in consciousness of which is not owned by one personality. Rather, consciousness is one reality within which all "seemed" bodies and personalities arise. Every personality, every body, every object are mere aspects of one consciousness.

And what is this consciousness?
What do you call a cat wearing a turtle's shell on its back? A purpoise.
Granth
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Granth »

1. "Do ideas come to you?"

They arise in consciousness just as everything I experience does.[/quote]
Subatomic God wrote:Why say "I experience", if ideas are alien to your observation?
"I" is a limitation inherent in language producing an inevitable paradox during discussions. The trick is to not ever believe in the "I" but one may use it. When we do not use "I" and "me", language can become alienating unless each limited individual human consciousness understands the paradox.



"There is no coming or going and no to and from. Things and ideas simply arise. They form."
Subatomic God wrote:Then what is "I" or "you", but information?
"I" or "me" arises as idea within consciousness. As information it informs of nothing other than its opposite. Things always allude to their opposite. The opposite of "I exist" is "I does not". "I" is an arising phenomena. An idea. So when we talk of ideas we usually and often talk using the idea "I" and "me" and "you" and "we" and "us" and "them" and "other".

Otherness is the chief thing to be resolved (into the light that is Consciousness). "Whenever there is other, fear arises."



"I have not had the experience of shock accompanying an experience of a particularly interesting idea. I have had an experience of disappearance into 'enlightenment' and shock did not follow or accompany it."
Subatomic God wrote:Expound.
No shock to expound. But the experience resolved human consciousness. Suspended it. Human consciousness (that apparently individual human pattern of thought and analysis) is a limitation, an object (of circular thought process - atoms), which arises within Consciousness, ceased. Became so still that it disappeared (so "I" disappeared), because objects (electrical impulses, effectively) are forms of motion. When motion stops there is nothing. However, on this particular occasion, there was identification with that nothing or stopping rather than identification with an "I" (which is a product of motion-electrical impulses). The source of all motion/electricity is its opposite.



"Because such "wise men" know that all phenomena, including words, thoughts, ideas, arise in the consciousness that is not their own just as the body/mind/personality of their most consistant 'everyday' experience (within which it merely seems ideas arise) is also not their own. All bodies arise in consciousness of which is not owned by one personality. Rather, consciousness is one reality within which all "seemed" bodies and personalities arise. Every personality, every body, every object are mere aspects of one consciousness".

Subatomic God wrote:And what is this consciousness?
[/quote]

"Consciousness" is a word for whatever this is within which all things-events-experiences arise. If I was to replace "consciousness" with yet another word this still would not tell us anything more. We do not know what any of this is. This is why "all this" has sometimes been referred to as "isness". Beyond any word for everything we inevitably play circular word games. Consequently we would just become dizzy. No point.
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Subatomic God
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Re: Defining Freedom

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Granth wrote:
"Consciousness" is a word for whatever this is within which all things-events-experiences arise. If I was to replace "consciousness" with yet another word this still would not tell us anything more. We do not know what any of this is. This is why "all this" has sometimes been referred to as "isness". Beyond any word for everything we inevitably play circular word games. Consequently we would just become dizzy. No point.

I know what "it" is.

Why do you not?
What do you call a cat wearing a turtle's shell on its back? A purpoise.
Granth
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Granth »

Subatomic God wrote:
Granth wrote:
"Consciousness" is a word for whatever this is within which all things-events-experiences arise. If I was to replace "consciousness" with yet another word this still would not tell us anything more. We do not know what any of this is. This is why "all this" has sometimes been referred to as "isness". Beyond any word for everything we inevitably play circular word games. Consequently we would just become dizzy. No point.

I know what "it" is.

Why do you not?
I know it is nothing.

Throw any words you like at it. Every word you use is just a noise.
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Subatomic God
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Subatomic God »

Granth wrote:
I know it is nothing.

Throw any words you like at it. Every word you use is just a noise.
Alright.

Consciousness is a the result of space phenomenon.

The space phenomenon is water and micro particles.

The jelly of the eye is based on water evolution.

The tools of the eye are based on space evolution.
What do you call a cat wearing a turtle's shell on its back? A purpoise.
Granth
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Granth »

Subatomic God wrote:
Granth wrote:
I know it is nothing.

Throw any words you like at it. Every word you use is just a noise.
Alright.

Consciousness is a the result of space phenomenon.

The space phenomenon is water and micro particles.

The jelly of the eye is based on water evolution.

The tools of the eye are based on space evolution.
Well, I hope those words serve a purpose for you.

-- Updated August 29th, 2014, 1:37 pm to add the following --

That they bring things altogether into a tidy little parcel.
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Subatomic God
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Subatomic God »

Granth wrote:
Well, I hope those words serve a purpose for you.

-- Updated August 29th, 2014, 1:37 pm to add the following --

That they bring things altogether into a tidy little parcel.
They are the truth - they will always have meaning.

It's like these words:

Bees and electrons can be irritated and their buzzing changes when their mood changes. The world consists of vibrations, so keep that in mind.

Bees and electrons are perceived generally as yellow - coincidence?

Bees and electrons produce tesselated, hexagonal patterns; the electrons are formed within the design, while bees create the design out of a beehive.

Electrons work on ultra-violet waves.

Bees can see ultra-violet waves - coincidence?
What do you call a cat wearing a turtle's shell on its back? A purpoise.
Granth
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Joined: July 20th, 2012, 11:56 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Granth »

Subatomic God wrote:
Granth wrote:
Well, I hope those words serve a purpose for you.

-- Updated August 29th, 2014, 1:37 pm to add the following --

That they bring things altogether into a tidy little parcel.
They are the truth - they will always have meaning.

It's like these words:

Bees and electrons can be irritated and their buzzing changes when their mood changes. The world consists of vibrations, so keep that in mind.

Bees and electrons are perceived generally as yellow - coincidence?

Bees and electrons produce tesselated, hexagonal patterns; the electrons are formed within the design, while bees create the design out of a beehive.

Electrons work on ultra-violet waves.

Bees can see ultra-violet waves - coincidence?
Yes. Scientific facts arise in consciousness. In the end, we find entertainment and distraction in facts and various other phenomena. What specific ideas and objects interests an individual gives color to the world as a whole. My interests, my distractions and entertainments, provides color and sometimes introduces color for another. Games are fun. We should all just play and never be a serious neurotic.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Obvious Leo »

Subatomic God wrote: Electrons work on ultra-violet waves.
Your particle physics needs some work.
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Subatomic God
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Subatomic God »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Your particle physics needs some work.

Excuse me, I mean molecules, not electrons in two parts, this as you have demonstrated and the part when I talk about the hexagonal design, that would be molecules, not electrons.

-- Updated August 28th, 2014, 9:03 pm to add the following --
Granth wrote: Yes. Scientific facts arise in consciousness. In the end, we find entertainment and distraction in facts and various other phenomena. What specific ideas and objects interests an individual gives color to the world as a whole. My interests, my distractions and entertainments, provides color and sometimes introduces color for another. Games are fun. We should all just play and never be a serious neurotic.
It's not a game when you truly understand the Universe's system. It's like a game, in principle, but it's far from it.
What do you call a cat wearing a turtle's shell on its back? A purpoise.
Granth
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Joined: July 20th, 2012, 11:56 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Granth »

Subatomic God wrote:
Obvious Leo wrote:
Your particle physics needs some work.

Excuse me, I mean molecules, not electrons in two parts, this as you have demonstrated and the part when I talk about the hexagonal design, that would be molecules, not electrons.

-- Updated August 28th, 2014, 9:03 pm to add the following --
Granth wrote: Yes. Scientific facts arise in consciousness. In the end, we find entertainment and distraction in facts and various other phenomena. What specific ideas and objects interests an individual gives color to the world as a whole. My interests, my distractions and entertainments, provides color and sometimes introduces color for another. Games are fun. We should all just play and never be a serious neurotic.
It's not a game when you truly understand the Universe's system. It's like a game, in principle, but it's far from it.
To be "principled", then, is to play. I've seen systems. I've travelled into arteries (found my limited consciousness travelling through another's body spontaneously, during sex strangely, without strategy - fun and weird). And I've been at the universe's source. But ultimately everything is a consequence of relationship, which is nothing. Everything is free in that relationship space (to get back to the topic).
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Subatomic God
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Subatomic God »

Granth wrote:
To be "principled", then, is to play. I've seen systems. I've travelled into arteries (found my limited consciousness travelling through another's body spontaneously, during sex strangely, without strategy - fun and weird). And I've been at the universe's source. But ultimately everything is a consequence of relationship, which is nothing. Everything is free in that relationship space (to get back to the topic).

What you see with your mind is limited to your imagination - what you see with your brain is limited to reality.
What do you call a cat wearing a turtle's shell on its back? A purpoise.
Granth
Posts: 2084
Joined: July 20th, 2012, 11:56 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Granth »

Subatomic God wrote:
Granth wrote:
To be "principled", then, is to play. I've seen systems. I've travelled into arteries (found my limited consciousness travelling through another's body spontaneously, during sex strangely, without strategy - fun and weird). And I've been at the universe's source. But ultimately everything is a consequence of relationship, which is nothing. Everything is free in that relationship space (to get back to the topic).

What you see with your mind is limited to your imagination - what you see with your brain is limited to reality.
Then there are as many realities as there are brains. Brains arise within consciousness. I identify with consciousness while I experience brain producing phenomenal experiences. All is imagined.
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Subatomic God
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Subatomic God »

Granth wrote: Then there are as many realities as there are brains. Brains arise within consciousness. I identify with consciousness while I experience brain producing phenomenal experiences. All is imagined.
Realities are nothing more than a cosmic mirage - there's only one "reality" - and all of our sub-realities come from that reality, but the only reality that truly means to itself, is the reality that advocates all realities.
What do you call a cat wearing a turtle's shell on its back? A purpoise.
Granth
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Joined: July 20th, 2012, 11:56 pm

Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Granth »

Subatomic God wrote:
Granth wrote: Then there are as many realities as there are brains. Brains arise within consciousness. I identify with consciousness while I experience brain producing phenomenal experiences. All is imagined.
Realities are nothing more than a cosmic mirage - there's only one "reality" - and all of our sub-realities come from that reality, but the only reality that truly means to itself, is the reality that advocates all realities.
I think I more or less have said the same thing, just using different noises than your noises.

Cosmic mirage = imagined. Sub-realities = brains.
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