Defining Freedom

Have philosophical discussions about politics, law, and government.
Featured Article: Definition of Freedom - What Freedom Means to Me
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LuckyR
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by LuckyR »

“Is not this a free country?”

“Yes, sir.”

“Have not I a right to swing my arm?”

“Yes, but your right to swing your arm leaves off where my right not to have my nose struck begins.”

Iowa City, 1882.
"As usual... it depends."
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HZY
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by HZY »

Scott wrote:If you have not already, check out my definition of freedom: What Freedom Means to Me

What do you think? Do you agree with my definition? Do you support 'freedom' as I have defined it?

Do you think my definition accurate represents what most people mean by 'freedom' in the political sense?

If you disagree with my definition of freedom, how would you define it?

Thanks, Scott
Freedom rests not in its definition but in its exercise. When we are hungry, we eat without hesitation. When we are truly free, we should be able to act without hesitation. Do you think you have true freedom if you hesitate in your action do to some external factors, real or perceived? I don't think so.
Belinda
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Belinda »

HZY wrote:
Do you think you have true freedom if you hesitate in your action do to some external factors, real or perceived? I don't think so.
Hesitating to take time to reflect before committing to action is prudent. Sometimes a trained individual will not hesitate and this person can be dangerous.
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HZY
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by HZY »

Belinda wrote:HZY wrote:
Do you think you have true freedom if you hesitate in your action do to some external factors, real or perceived? I don't think so.
Hesitating to take time to reflect before committing to action is prudent. Sometimes a trained individual will not hesitate and this person can be dangerous.
A child, with care free and easy come easy go attitude, is more free than an adult whose mind is cluttered with accumulating variables of "why I should not act on this one, at this time, in this place", resulting in lost of freedom. Why would you hesitate? Are those variables real or imagined?
Belinda
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Belinda »

You are not a child. I am not a child. Children by definition are not equipped to make rational and far reaching decisions.

Even by the standards of childhood some children are more free than other children, if only because some children have better prospects than other children.

Spontaneity is good if and only if it is indulged at appropriate times and places, such as making love or when grieving or when dying or giving birth. Even at such times spontaneity gives way to reflection with beneficial results.

Spontaneous responses to life situations can moreover be improved if the subject has learned and rehearsed appropriate responses in advance. For instance trained soldiers were bolder after their bayonet training.
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Obvious Leo
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Obvious Leo »

Belinda wrote: For instance trained soldiers were bolder after their bayonet training.
We lurk into our creepiest places, sister, when we speak of such things, for these are truths which define the antithesis of human freedom. Are we truly bold enough to investigate these darkest corners of what it means to be homo sapiens? I ask this question in both hope and despair.

Regards Leo
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Misty
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Misty »

"Defining Freedom"

Freedom is that which one controls from first moment of consciousness - to last moment of consciousness.

Doesn't seem like much freedom does it?
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Obvious Leo »

Misty wrote: Freedom is that which one controls from first moment of consciousness - to last moment of consciousness.

Doesn't seem like much freedom does it?
What more could you want? What the hell else is there? The meaning is to make of it what it is instead of deluding yourself yourself that it is what it isn't. Pretend worlds are for children, Misty.

Regards Leo
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Misty
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Misty »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Misty wrote: Freedom is that which one controls from first moment of consciousness - to last moment of consciousness.

Doesn't seem like much freedom does it?
What more could you want? What the hell else is there? The meaning is to make of it what it is instead of deluding yourself yourself that it is what it isn't. Pretend worlds are for children, Misty.

Regards Leo
Hi Leo,

There is little freedom within the "first moment of consciousness to the last moment of consciousness, and of course it further varies from person to person. There is no freedom on the way to consciousness or moving away from consciousness. What consciousness is given to each person is not a consciousness of freedom but again of coercion. You are right, that is all we have, and humans, good, bad or indifferent make the best of their plight.

I have no clue what you mean by pretend words. Do not imply I am a child through the words I choose to use.

Misty

-- Updated Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:36 pm to add the following --

Correction to Leo. I misread world for word. Sorry. Please ignore my last 2 sentences. I will add though, I livein and think about the same world as you do. I do not live in a pretend world and I am not a child.
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
Obvious Leo
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Obvious Leo »

We all live in pretend worlds, Misty, because we make our own realities. The worlds of some are more real than the worlds of others but no tools exist for us to make the distinction beyond the tools of human reason. If we deny the efficacy of these tools we may as well all pack up our crap and go fishing because that's what philosophy is.
Misty wrote: There is no freedom on the way to consciousness or moving away from consciousness.


By "moving away from consciousness" I presume you mean dying. It's a pathetic end to the examined life which seeks its freedom in death.

Regards Leo
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HZY
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by HZY »

Scott wrote:If you have not already, check out my definition of freedom: What Freedom Means to Me

What do you think? Do you agree with my definition? Do you support 'freedom' as I have defined it?

Do you think my definition accurate represents what most people mean by 'freedom' in the political sense?

If you disagree with my definition of freedom, how would you define it?

Thanks, Scott
Freedom shall be defined by whatever terminology or phraseology one wishes to use to define it at one's will, to whatever degree one feels to further elaborate it at the moment, and under whatever mental state, "toxicated", intoxicated, or otherwise, one wishes to exercise due intelligence.
Belinda
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Belinda »

Obvious Leo wrote:
Belinda wrote: For instance trained soldiers were bolder after their bayonet training.
We lurk into our creepiest places, sister, when we speak of such things, for these are truths which define the antithesis of human freedom. Are we truly bold enough to investigate these darkest corners of what it means to be homo sapiens? I ask this question in both hope and despair.

Regards Leo
I believe that there is a hierarchy with good at the top but none of us gets to be Jesus Christ. Therefore there is such a thing as a relatively just war and justifiable violence. In the case of a hands-on violence such as bayonets the cost is partly borne by the people who wield the bayonets. In a less dramatic way none of us is entirely innocent of the total violence and evil.


I am not saying that there is an ideal good, or an ideal justice which true philosophers know as a kind of mysterious remembering. I mean that we have to work out for ourselves what is the balance of good and evil. This is a major reason why history is important, the historical precedents. And this is why free speech is important , so that historians and reporters get it as right as they can.
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Misty
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Misty »

Obvious Leo wrote:We all live in pretend worlds, Misty, because we make our own realities. The worlds of some are more real than the worlds of others but no tools exist for us to make the distinction beyond the tools of human reason. If we deny the efficacy of these tools we may as well all pack up our crap and go fishing because that's what philosophy is.
Misty wrote: There is no freedom on the way to consciousness or moving away from consciousness.


By "moving away from consciousness" I presume you mean dying. It's a pathetic end to the examined life which seeks its freedom in death.

Regards Leo
If one makes his/her own reality then it is not a pretend world, but a world made from real and available materials to build with. Yes, I did mean dying by "moving away from consciousness." I don't think one finds freedom in death, just freedom from life. Death is a mystery for the living, maybe we will be surprised and maybe it is just the end. If humans could learn to live and let live, the examined life would belong to all .... as freedom.
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
Synthesis
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Synthesis »

Freedom is not doing what you want to, but instead, what you have to.
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Present awareness
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Re: Defining Freedom

Post by Present awareness »

The ability to physically move, without restraint, would be physical freedom. The ability to think without any kind of mind control, would be mental freedom. The ability to feel emotions as they arise, without surpression, would be emotional freedom. We do not have the freedom to defy laws of nature, like gravity for example, but we may live freely within those natural laws. I would define freedom as unrestricted movement, be it physical, mental, emotional or spiritual. Water is like freedom in action. Water in a river, has the freedom to flow over, under or around any object on it’s way to the lowest point. Water has the freedom to flow or be still, whatever circumstances dictate.
Even though you can see me, I might not be here.
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