Defining Freedom

I do not yet, intend to analyze the subject, but, I found something I'd like to share, which pertains to this matter:

Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

“For I perceived that man’s estate is as a citadel: he may throw down the walls to gain what he calls freedom, but then nothing of him remains save a dismantled fortress, open to the stars.

And then begins the anguish of not-being.

Far better for him were it to achieve his truth in the homely smell of blazing vine shoots, or of the sheep he has to shear. Truth strikes deep, like a well.

A gaze that wanders loses sight of God. And that wise man who, keeping his thoughts in hand, knows little more than the weight of his flock’s wool has a clearer vision of God than [anyone].

Citadel, I will build you in men’s hearts.”

Saint-Exupéry is a great thinker, and beautifully expresses such deep thoughts as these. Then, just one more addition, that I found interesting in the way it tackles the subject... Seems I can't post the link I wish to. Here's a bit of it:

"Start with “will", because everything starts with will. One dictionary definition of it, and the one closest to how I will use it here, is: “The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action”. All purposeful actions have to begin with will, with the decision to act. You cannot impose your will, nor can you submit to another’s will. Those are useful terms for a more complex series of decisions and actions, but they cannot literally be done. You cannot fully cause another’s actions, you can only influence him to will those actions himself." By kylben, on his blog.

Good time, maybe, to remind everyone of the most optimistic proclamation ever about the hope for freedom. This from Yeshua (Jesus),

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

Putting aside the usual pious response to this, we see a seven step process with outrageous promise.

1. Tune into Yeshua (Jesus)
2. Identify with the Jews.
3. Decide that His teachings and life were a good way to make life choices. (usual definition of believe.)
4. Abide in His word. (Interesting thought. Abide? Look at teachings regularly, systematically review, and compare actions?)
5. Identify self as a disciple of Yeshua.
6. Trust what you think is true actualy is true.
7, Be free.

The rewards here are knowing the truth, and being free. That's about as good as it gets. The costs are substantial, but rather modest in comparison.

Icarus invites us to consider some other ways of getting to freedom, with attendent risks. Freedom begins with our looking plainly at the various choices, as he also reminds us.

Your freedom is defined in the context of rights of others. so what's the rights? the right domain is "don't Violate the rights of others."

Is freedom not defined as that which is without limitation?

Is freedom not defined as that which is without limitation?

Wouldn't that be just one end of the freedom "spectrum"?


The balance of freedoms between people is pretty damn interesting. Not violating the rights of others, deciding wether my right to do X is as important, or more important than your right to not have X done.

Perhaps in relation to something other than itself, freedom has a spectrum, but freedom itself has no varying degree nor spectrum, it simply exists as itself or does not. Furthermore, it cannot be defined, for the moment it is defined, a relationship is created, and this relationship becomes a limition upon freedom, whereby it becomes something other than itself and ceases to exist. Freedom can only be defined by itself, hence the only proof we have that freedom even exists; through our ability to relate to it.

We enjoy games because we have choices, of what card to play, of where to move our backgammon or chess pieces. and so on. This is freedom. But it can only exist in a setting where there are rules and consequences. The more complex the rules, the greater the freedom, because there are more choices with consequences.

The exercise of freedom, of making choices, free will and responsibility, courts of law and consequences, is a very human distinctive. We find the very concept of justice depends on there being true freedom.

Under seduction and oppression, we find persons hoping to rob others of freedom, wanting to enslave others, either by lying to them or threatening them. The enslaved usually allows this to happen, choosing to be "free" from responsibility, which is a contradiction in terms. Untrue freedom, and vaguely dissatisfying.

In truth, the players in the game of life include, probably, living beings which are a part of our ecosystem which are beyond our senses and ken. Some enslave, some liberate. The enslavers hide, so that they can seduce and oppress without detection. The liberators advertise. Those who use what freedom they have, who know the very simple game of "find the truth," and play it, learn the rules of the game of life. So, they get more life, more human life that is, more freedom.

We make choices through cost benefit analysis, which requires being "sapiens," hence our species name. But, really, other creatures we can observe are often quite clever. Our species ought to be named, Homo liberatus. Among the organic living beings, we appear to be the only one with any semblance of courts of justice, and the expression of freedom/responsibility those courts reflect.

We enjoy games because we have choices, of what card to play, of where to move our backgammon or chess pieces. and so on. This is freedom. But it can only exist in a setting where there are rules and consequences. The more complex the rules, the greater the freedom, because there are more choices with consequences.

The exercise of freedom, of making choices, free will and responsibility, courts of law and consequences, is a very human distinctive. We find the very concept of justice depends on there being true freedom.

Under seduction and oppression, we find persons hoping to rob others of freedom, wanting to enslave others, either by lying to them or threatening them. The enslaved usually allows this to happen, choosing to be "free" from responsibility, which is a contradiction in terms. Untrue freedom, and vaguely dissatisfying.

In truth, the players in the game of life include, probably, living beings which are a part of our ecosystem which are beyond our senses and ken. Some enslave, some liberate. The enslavers hide, so that they can seduce and oppress without detection. The liberators advertise. Those who use what freedom they have, who know the very simple game of "find the truth," and play it, learn the rules of the game of life. So, they get more life, more human life that is, more freedom.

We make choices through cost benefit analysis, which requires being "sapiens," hence our species name. But, really, other creatures we can observe are often quite clever. Our species ought to be named, Homo liberatus. Among the organic living beings, we appear to be the only one with any semblance of courts of justice, and the expression of freedom/responsibility those courts reflect.

Freedom is not the ability to play the card or move the piece. The freedom lies in having the power to challenge the rules. Any dictator allows us to play cards, thus pretending to us that we are free to do so, but when those cards are played to his advantage and the advantage of the elites that support him - what kind of freedom is that? It is the kind of freedom that you have placing a chip on a roulette table or throwing money into a one-armed bandit.

Surely freedom generally means release from some form of supervision or authority. Unless authorized it is of no benefit to the individual because they simply provoked the emnity of every other country the world, spend all their energies on defence, security and insurance and waste their lives complaining how nobody understands them. Enough already; give it up and come home to daddy before you get really hurt.

At the risk of appearing flippant, Frank Zappa's "Teenage Wind" exemplifies one of the key problems of the concept of Freedom, that is the simple fact that freedom is wholly and paradoxically dependent on the means to secure it.

It's a miserable Friday night; I'm so lonely And nobody'll give me a ride To the Grateful Dead concert... Oh rats!

I got to be free Free as the wind Free is the way I got to be Maybe I'm lost Maybe I sinned I got to be Totally free Our parents don't love us Our teachers they say Things that are boring So we're running away And we will be free And people will see That when we are free That's the way we should be Nothing left to do but get out the 'ol glue (Sniff it good now. ..) Our parents don't love us Our teachers they say Things that are boring So we're running away And we will be free And people will see That when we are free That's the way we should be

(WE MUST BE FREE!) The glue! The glue! I can't find the glue! (WE MUST BE FREE AS THE WIND) If I was at the concert now, I'd be RIPPED! (WE WERE FREE WHEN WE WERE BORN!) I could tighten my headband for an extra rush During Jerry's guitar solo Then I could go to a midnite show of 200 MOTELS! (WE WERE BORN FREE, BUT, NOW WE ARE NOT FREE ANYMORE!) "Opal, you hot little bitch!" "You can take this pin n' hang it in yer ass!" "You ain't the devil!" "Where's my waitress?" BUT WE WANNA BE FREE AN'WERE GONNA BE FREE YES, WE WANT TO BE FREE AND WE'RE GONNA BE FREE ...did you know that FREE IS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR NOTHING OR DO NOTHING WE WANT TO BE FREE FREE AS THE WIND FREE IS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR NOTHING OR DO NOTHING WE WANT TO BE FREE FREE AS THE WIND FREE IS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR NOTHING OR DO NOTHING WE WANT TO BE FREE FREE AS THE WIND FREE IS WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR NOTHING OR DO NOTHING WE WANT TO BE FREE FREE AS THE WIND

I've just joined Philosophy Club and these latest posts interest me. I think I must be a materialist - not very familiar with terminologies for all these approaches, but I am much more in line nowadays with the physical body as decider, the brain is part of the body and when our brain cells die off, that's the end of any kind of meaningful freedom, alas. Wish, wish, wish it weren't so.

If you have not already, check out my definition of freedom: What Freedom Means to Me

What do you think? Do you agree with my definition? Do you support 'freedom' as I have defined it?

Do you think my definition accurate represents what most people mean by 'freedom' in the political sense?

If you disagree with my definition of freedom, how would you define it?

Thanks, Scott

"What Freedom Means to Me" is a blast from the past:

Matthew 7:12 "Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Before I Post, Let me lay down the difference between Fact and Opinion. I notice the whole world claiming themselves as fact and just argue like toddlers over a toy. Just say 'anything that comes out of One Persons mouth is an Opinion. If that person is influential enough, he or she will win votes. And to freedom, I believe in the word "Judgement". And if I had the power to change the world to my, "My" not yours, I would Define "Culture" and do not be fooled by it, because you are probably brainwashed. I cannot continue because "Culture" has a long definition and can take volumes, plus the word is not always negative. And for the second thing about freedom, I will talk down the purpose of "Contracts". By the Rich and Clever- They seductively enslave those of less powerful, who Ignore their own Bible to 'whatever' about what it says about "pledges". Trust is also comes after "Judgement". If you lack, get educated. Just one more time- this is an Opinion, so there is no need to argue, I did not say " This is a fact!"

I myself would say that freedom is doing and choosing to live your life the way you like best, and to pursue your own good in your own way; that is, as long as you don't harm other people. As philosopher John Stuart Mill rightly pointed out 150 years ago, ''The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs or impede their efforts to obtain it.''

I myself would say that freedom is doing and choosing to live your life the way you like best, and to pursue your own good in your own way; that is, as long as you don't harm other people. As philosopher John Stuart Mill rightly pointed out 150 years ago, ''The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs or impede their efforts to obtain it.''

Ofcourse freedom is really just having alternative futures available, and in reality many of the available alternatives are horrid.