Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often thought?
- Newme
- Posts: 1401
- Joined: December 13th, 2011, 1:21 am
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
- Okisites
- Posts: 1286
- Joined: April 20th, 2012, 7:53 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Nature
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
I beg a pardon, because I didn't considered the matter that there's also a risk on the mother's part. Though I will say that I didn't know whether she approached police after being caught in criminal activity or not. If She approached police immediately then pregnancy should be aborted but if she is not then it should not be aborted because in this case she is also be considered as she might agree with those act however she being raped forcibly against her will because she didn't approached the police immediately. If the law let them abort then i think there would be more probability that such reason or argument will be made by the such criminals of future by having a false medical report. It should be remember that the humans whether doctors or officials even lawyers and so on, can be purchased giving a bribe for making a false medical report. Therefore it is actually a green flag shown for having an abortion in such cases whether or not the would-be newborn will get any severe disorders. I think considering all humans at a time, humans cannot be trusted. Actually what happens fully naturally is always correct if there's no human interference between. I think it is right that no such criminal will want such baby will have to take birth. And the law is absolutely correct to not to have an abortion in any case. There's no doubt that this will increase the carelessness in part of criminals to commit such crime. Actually what happens is the Humans actually fear social punishment more than the legal punishment. Any crime actually can brings two types of punishment first is social and second is legal. Many people do not fear legal punishments. But generally people fears social punishment highly that is why i say that regarding any criminal activity people has to think judicially. We have to be very careful in judging about any criminal activity about whether in our decision do we unknowingly forgiving the criminals socially. Society do this thing most of the times unknowingly and emotions motivate them to do this and that's why I think that emotions are invalid and disastrous. Society must bind criminals to have social punishment and should not let them saved by this.
I think even the embryo is nerveless, brainless, non-sentient but it couldn’t be considered as non-humans because if we think so than the abortion will no more a crime. But abortion is a crime because it has a potential to increase the crime rate. And what can increase the crime rate should not be legalize, it’s a fact. Also we must consider embryo as human though it is nerveless brainless and non-sentient. As we like our photo not to be disrespected in front of us though photograph is nerveless, brainless and non-sentient. Anybody cannot hit the statue of justice by shoes whether it is nerveless and brainless and have no sentiments. It will be the contempt of court and anybody will get the punishment. Therefore I cannot consider embryo as non-sentient point of view as it is I think, it is much higher than anybody’s photograph and statue of justice.
John (wooden shoe)
It is very nice to see you very moralistic and compassionate but try this morals be compatible with future consequences also. Not for this case. I may gone wrong conditionally. And natural punishment is better, nobody needs to use weapons or anything, it is automatic.
-
- Posts: 48
- Joined: April 11th, 2012, 11:09 am
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
I mind you that being raped is a mental scar that can be incredibly frightful, it is an inhuman act that takes all power away from another human, and makes sure it will be hard for them to ever regain it. Many (not most not all)rape victims are unable to even tell people of what has happened to them simply because it was such a frightening experience they are afraid to be punished (this is a common tendency if you are subjected to it more than once and people disbelieve you). these people would not even dare seek the police, they would never think anything positive (nor be able to) about the parasites slowly tearing them down inside their very own bodies are you saying that they should no be allowed an abortion?
Now let's move away from that.
There are in fact several other situations were an abortion should still be allowed, a handicaped child should always be a consideration yes sure they could live, but another healthy child could also take its place and lead an even more happy life.
That's an obvious one. Now there is the more difficult question about how some families are entitled to get an abortion. We are not talking about your body here, it is not you who is going to care for this child you would not want for 9 months. It's not you who would have to suffer from the experience of giving birth to an unwanted child, to burden yourself with the responsibilities of being a parent(while not wanting it).
Yes Abortion might as well be considered murder. Now that we consider it for what it is, now is to ask the question of who else we murder.
We murder in war terrorists figureheads that other people look up to, we do not think twice about this. We justify murder with murder. Just because one is a murder does not justify you murdering. In the end a many murderess still have sanity as well as people who believe and love them.
We also murder criminals (war criminals especially because that defy even laws on execution)
We also murder people simply by not helping them, plenty of people could have been saved with your help (in more ways than you or I could think of) you would take on this guilt no matter what. Saying that you can not sacrifice yourself for them would be like a mother wanting an abortion not wanting to use time resources and put strain on herself through pregnancy. (saying that it's killing of the mother even if you do not consider the other statement as killing is wrong, simply because that the child would not sustain itself without the mother. (still being a part of her option, ending up as a heavily handicapped child is almost the same, since they cannot sustain themselves either they either need help from the government or the mother))
Do you think this is okay? if you do your a hypocrite if not well you would be justified to have your own opinion on the matter
There are also several other cases of believe in which your logic is justified.
Examples.
1) If you somehow think that people who think differently are not entitled to the right of a human
2) If you think that it is entirely different with people being from different countries, and that it makes them worth less. (basically making you somewhat close to what racist is)
3) Remember animal? we kill to eat do we not? others are the same as we see animals killing our own kin is different indeed.
4) You don't give a ****
5) You don't really care what I say.
Please mind that much of this, is lacking backing and would be something I would need to give separately. Also do note that after reading this you would still most likely have no real clue as to what my own opinion is. I'm just stating a few things that are in some ways quite flawed (I do agree) but nice to chew on.
- Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
- The admin formerly known as Scott
- Posts: 5765
- Joined: January 20th, 2007, 6:24 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
- Contact:
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
***
Okisites, I personally wouldn't want a rape victim to be denied abortion simply because she didn't go to the police quick enough for the reasons pointed out by TheCrowSword. However, I am willing to agree to disagree on that point because you do agree that you want it to be legal for the woman to get an abortion if she does go to the police immediately. That is enough to support my conclusion that abortion is not as diametrically divisive as often thought because as we have seen so far almost everyone wants certain kinds of abortion to be legal and certain kind of abortions to be illegal; we just all vary moderately on the gray areas in-between an abortion at one week by the incestuous rape victim and the abortion at 5-days-past-due by the healthy, wealthy woman.
"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."
I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
- Misty
- Premium Member
- Posts: 5934
- Joined: August 10th, 2011, 8:13 pm
- Location: United States of America
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
I think the wealthy woman should make her own decision as well.
True morality is self imposed.
Society needs better education for all in the areas of sexuality, reproduction and responsibility. Sexuality and reproduction are personal. Being a victim of a sexual crime is also personal and should be handled that way. Privately.
Abortion should never be used as a birth control 'method'. But there again, education is the key, I think.
While I do believe life is conception to death (possibility of normal life span) I do not think government has the right to make such personal agonizing decisions for the individual who has to experience the decision.
My own dream is to get to the point of building a society where these decisions are moot because mankind has evolved beyond humans perpetrating crimes on fellow humans. I know, I know, it is a dream!
The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.
I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
-
- Posts: 48
- Joined: April 11th, 2012, 11:09 am
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
The reason the government exist is to exert force on humans, it is there to control us, but in doing so it also assures us that we will not be killed by another government (and their population).Misty wrote:I think the teenager should make the decision whether she wants to abort or not.
I think the wealthy woman should make her own decision as well.
True morality is self imposed.
Society needs better education for all in the areas of sexuality, reproduction and responsibility. Sexuality and reproduction are personal. Being a victim of a sexual crime is also personal and should be handled that way. Privately.
Abortion should never be used as a birth control 'method'. But there again, education is the key, I think.
While I do believe life is conception to death (possibility of normal life span) I do not think government has the right to make such personal agonizing decisions for the individual who has to experience the decision.
My own dream is to get to the point of building a society where these decisions are moot because mankind has evolved beyond humans perpetrating crimes on fellow humans. I know, I know, it is a dream!
and by the way, your dream is death and annihilation of the human race. Because that which makes us commit these crimes is also what allows our survival.
- Misty
- Premium Member
- Posts: 5934
- Joined: August 10th, 2011, 8:13 pm
- Location: United States of America
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
I am sorry, as I misread about the wealthy woman. I thought it meant 5 days past due date of menstrual cycle, not the due date of birth. So how can I correct this on the survey? I do not think she should abort.
-- Updated Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:14 pm to add the following --
I corrected a part of my post. Now I do not understand your reasoning for your last sentence. Could you explain?TheCrowSword wrote:The reason the government exist is to exert force on humans, it is there to control us, but in doing so it also assures us that we will not be killed by another government (and their population).Misty wrote:I think the teenager should make the decision whether she wants to abort or not.
I think the wealthy woman should make her own decision as well.
True morality is self imposed.
Society needs better education for all in the areas of sexuality, reproduction and responsibility. Sexuality and reproduction are personal. Being a victim of a sexual crime is also personal and should be handled that way. Privately.
Abortion should never be used as a birth control 'method'. But there again, education is the key, I think.
While I do believe life is conception to death (possibility of normal life span) I do not think government has the right to make such personal agonizing decisions for the individual who has to experience the decision.
My own dream is to get to the point of building a society where these decisions are moot because mankind has evolved beyond humans perpetrating crimes on fellow humans. I know, I know, it is a dream!
and by the way, your dream is death and annihilation of the human race. Because that which makes us commit these crimes is also what allows our survival.
The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.
I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
-
- Posts: 48
- Joined: April 11th, 2012, 11:09 am
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
I'm starting to feel bad for Scott, everyone seems to misunderstand his question xD (oh well not everyone, but it seems many do)Misty wrote:HELP!!
I am sorry, as I misread about the wealthy woman. I thought it meant 5 days past due date of menstrual cycle, not the due date of birth. So how can I correct this on the survey? I do not think she should abort.
-- Updated Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:14 pm to add the following --
I corrected a part of my post. Now I do not understand your reasoning for your last sentence. Could you explain?TheCrowSword wrote: The reason the government exist is to exert force on humans, it is there to control us, but in doing so it also assures us that we will not be killed by another government (and their population).
and by the way, your dream is death and annihilation of the human race. Because that which makes us commit these crimes is also what allows our survival.
and what I meant with that is a longer discussion, in short greed makes many things happen for humans but in the end it is also what keeps us alive and running :p
- Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
- The admin formerly known as Scott
- Posts: 5765
- Joined: January 20th, 2007, 6:24 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
- Contact:
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."
I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
- Misty
- Premium Member
- Posts: 5934
- Joined: August 10th, 2011, 8:13 pm
- Location: United States of America
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
TheCrowSword wrote:I'm starting to feel bad for Scott, everyone seems to misunderstand his question xD (oh well not everyone, but it seems many do)Misty wrote:HELP!!
I am sorry, as I misread about the wealthy woman. I thought it meant 5 days past due date of menstrual cycle, not the due date of birth. So how can I correct this on the survey? I do not think she should abort.
-- Updated Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:14 pm to add the following --
I corrected a part of my post. Now I do not understand your reasoning for your last sentence. Could you explain?
and what I meant with that is a longer discussion, in short greed makes many things happen for humans but in the end it is also what keeps us alive and running :p
Is the longer discussion applicable to this topic? I would like to pursue it What did I say in my post that insinuated
greed? How does greed generate good and bad?
The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.
I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
-
- Posts: 48
- Joined: April 11th, 2012, 11:09 am
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
But yes irrelevant to the topic, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to discuss that subject.
- Misty
- Premium Member
- Posts: 5934
- Joined: August 10th, 2011, 8:13 pm
- Location: United States of America
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
OK, I will try to start a topic on greed, however, please tell me where in my original post did I insinuate greed?TheCrowSword wrote:@Misty you could try starting a new thread on the question of greed, and if there is anything good on it. (if there isn't such a thread already)
But yes irrelevant to the topic, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to discuss that subject.
The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.
I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
-
- Posts: 48
- Joined: April 11th, 2012, 11:09 am
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
Misty wrote: Society needs better education for all in the areas of sexuality, reproduction and responsibility. Sexuality and reproduction are personal. Being a victim of a sexual crime is also personal and should be handled that way. Privately.
Misty wrote: My own dream is to get to the point of building a society where these decisions are moot because mankind has evolved beyond humans perpetrating crimes on fellow humans. I know, I know, it is a dream!
This can all be connected to greed.
- Misty
- Premium Member
- Posts: 5934
- Joined: August 10th, 2011, 8:13 pm
- Location: United States of America
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
How?TheCrowSword wrote:Misty wrote: Society needs better education for all in the areas of sexuality, reproduction and responsibility. Sexuality and reproduction are personal. Being a victim of a sexual crime is also personal and should be handled that way. Privately.This can all be connected to greed.Misty wrote: My own dream is to get to the point of building a society where these decisions are moot because mankind has evolved beyond humans perpetrating crimes on fellow humans. I know, I know, it is a dream!
New thread on greed started on forum ethics and morality.
-- Updated Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:07 am to add the following --
While I do think abortion is ending the life of a person in it's earliest development, I think the life of children
or women who are found pregnant in any situation that has been forced upon them, should be that person's decision
whether to abort or not. There are other situations that may also merit abortions. War, children who cannot make
their own decision, severely mentally handicapped females, are just a few.
-- Updated Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:06 am to add the following --
Only a female can know how it feels to be in a position of degredation when violated by rape/pregnancy. Being pregnant is hard enough when one thinks they are in love and are loved by the one who impregnates. All females do not have the same
fortitude to always select to carry an unwanted pregnancy, and should not be further violated to do so.
The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.
I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
-
- Posts: 48
- Joined: April 11th, 2012, 11:09 am
Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
Misty wrote:How?TheCrowSword wrote: This can all be connected to greed.
New thread on greed started on forum ethics and morality.
-- Updated Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:07 am to add the following --
While I do think abortion is ending the life of a person in it's earliest development, I think the life of children
or women who are found pregnant in any situation that has been forced upon them, should be that person's decision
whether to abort or not. There are other situations that may also merit abortions. War, children who cannot make
their own decision, severely mentally handicapped females, are just a few.
-- Updated Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:06 am to add the following --
Only a female can know how it feels to be in a position of degredation when violated by rape/pregnancy. Being pregnant is hard enough when one thinks they are in love and are loved by the one who impregnates. All females do not have the same
fortitude to always select to carry an unwanted pregnancy, and should not be further violated to do so.
Yes indeed I do agree on most of that, except that it is very few females that actually would know how it is to be in a position as a victim of a violent situation. (although you do not specify it as such, people could easily get the feeling towards)
I'll respond to the question on greed another day, I'm simply out of time to respond on such a complex problem (complex only because people tend to view it differently)
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023