Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often thought?
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
Fetus or full-term what's the difference? It's closer to a thing not a being. Any opposition is emotional subjective pity. If that's the matter then we should rather open a debate about what's cute and what is not.Wilson wrote:Kieran, you may or may not have not understood the original poll, which was extremely poorly worded. The question was whether the mother should be able to kill her full-term baby - a baby that would be seven pounds/three kilos at birth, not a fetus where the woman was a few days late on her period. Most of us do not like infanticide.
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
I agree. Killing a full term infant, whether in or out, is very harsh, although less harsh than sending them off to pointless wars of aggression 17 years later as supported by many self-proclaimed "right to lifers". It's interesting to see the diversity of views people have; I didn't think anyone would support the second option.Wilson wrote:...the original poll ... was extremely poorly worded. The question was whether the mother should be able to kill her full-term baby - a baby that would be seven pounds/three kilos at birth, not a fetus where the woman was a few days late on her period.
For me, it's not cuteness but capacity to feel pain, which reportedly happens at some stage during the second half of the pregnancy.
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
Keiran,Keiran wrote:Fetus or full-term what's the difference? It's closer to a thing not a being. Any opposition is emotional subjective pity. If that's the matter then we should rather open a debate about what's cute and what is not.Wilson wrote:Kieran, you may or may not have not understood the original poll, which was extremely poorly worded. The question was whether the mother should be able to kill her full-term baby - a baby that would be seven pounds/three kilos at birth, not a fetus where the woman was a few days late on her period. Most of us do not like infanticide.
What are the attributes of a "thing" vs a human fetus?
Misty
-- Updated Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:57 pm to add the following --
[quote="Greta.
For me, it's not cuteness but capacity to feel pain, which reportedly happens at some stage during the second half of the pregnancy.
I read a fetus begins the nervous system growth at 8-10 weeks and is finished at 13 1/2 weeks.
Why is it OK to terminate a fetus because it cannot yet feel pain?
-- Updated Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:57 pm to add the following --
[quote="Greta.
For me, it's not cuteness but capacity to feel pain, which reportedly happens at some stage during the second half of the pregnancy.
I read a fetus begins the nervous system growth at 8-10 weeks and is finished at 13 1/2 weeks.
Why is it OK to terminate a fetus because it cannot yet feel pain?
The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
- Misty
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
The capacity to feel pain should not be the criteria for abortion. There are humans who are born with no capacity to feel pain, so should society decide it is alright to kill them if they are deemed inconvenient? Abortion has gone from medical reasons, i.e., etopic pregnancy and raped victims, to birth control and convenience issues.Greta wrote:Misty, why is it okay to kill intelligent mammals - because it's assumed that the pain they feel is different to human pain? No one denies that they suffer. Only the nature of the suffering.
Are there unintelligent mammals that are OK to kill? Do you eat land and sea creatures?
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
- Misty
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
How depressing. Are your children's lives worth saving?Spiral Out wrote:Why is any life worth saving? Nobody asked to be here. You get thrown in, why not get thrown out?[
The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
Greta wrote:Misty, why is it okay to kill intelligent mammals - because it's assumed that the pain they feel is different to human pain? No one denies that they suffer. Only the nature of the suffering.
You take the pill and buy mod cons if you want birth control and convenience, you don't undergo serious surgery. I am sure that most people who seek abortions are desperate and not ready. It's a misrepresentation to suggest otherwise.Misty wrote:The capacity to feel pain should not be the criteria for abortion. There are humans who are born with no capacity to feel pain, so should society decide it is alright to kill them if they are deemed inconvenient? Abortion has gone from medical reasons, i.e., etopic pregnancy and raped victims, to birth control and convenience issues.
Are there unintelligent mammals that are OK to kill? Do you eat land and sea creatures?
Are you against the pill too? It also prevents life from growing, just a bit earlier in the process.
-- Updated 06 Nov 2015, 22:23 to add the following --
Misty, I realise that you'd like to take me on in this after our poisonous euthanasia debate but it's a waste of time. This same conversation has played out over the internet a million times and made no difference to anything. We might as well copy and paste the views of others who've said all the same things.
Not a single piece of useful, or even interesting, information can come from us debating this.
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
Just about everyone agrees that a woman can manage the outcome of her unfertilized eggs and similarly just about everyone agrees that the same woman cannot arbitrarily decide to terminate after viability, say 24 weeks gestation (out of 40).
Where reasonable people disagree is at what point between these two bookends do women lose the right to manage the goings on within their own bodies.
It is worth mentioning that is it a very common opinion that certian things are felt to be "wrong" but should NOT be illegal.
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
Relative to what/who?Misty wrote:How depressing. Are your children's lives worth saving?Spiral Out wrote:Why is any life worth saving? Nobody asked to be here. You get thrown in, why not get thrown out?[
(Nested quote removed.)
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
Your life matters to you, and so it is to each human being, even those children (developing human beings).Spiral Out wrote:Relative to what/who?Misty wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
How depressing. Are your children's lives worth saving?
I imagine you support ripping apart bodies of defenseless children as a means for birth control, only because you want to justify past actions. The reason I imagine this, is because you are generally more ethical and conservative, as well as logical, except when it comes to this topic.
A life is valuable, no matter who says otherwise. Yes, you, and others who have personal stakes involved, will claim (by word or action) that you have more of a right to life than another, but your claim doesn't make it so. If we as a society continue to devalue life of the most defenseless and innocent, consider what that implies.
I want to Live, by John Denver Can I live, Rick Cannon (based on his own story, expressing gratitude that his mom decided NOT to abort him) Life Inside You, Matthew West
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Re: Abortion - Not as diametrically divisive as often though
Who cares? Do you care if my life matters to me? What are you willing to do to make sure that my life is all that I want it to be?Newme wrote:Your life matters to you, and so it is to each human being, even those children (developing human beings).
Shockingly, I've never ripped apart any defenseless children's bodies. But if I did, who cares? They would not have any idea that it had ever happened.Newme wrote:I imagine you support ripping apart bodies of defenseless children as a means for birth control, only because you want to justify past actions.
You've apparently never read my topics regarding the Void. It's not just the topic of abortion that I take issue with relative to people overreacting to the supposed "critical importance" of life.Newme wrote:The reason I imagine this, is because you are generally more ethical and conservative, as well as logical, except when it comes to this topic.
WHY??? Other than your own personal feelings.Newme wrote:A life is valuable, no matter who says otherwise.
I have never and will never make such a claim.Newme wrote:Yes, you, and others who have personal stakes involved, will claim (by word or action) that you have more of a right to life than another, but your claim doesn't make it so.
I have considered what that implies and I find no significant reason to piss and moan about it.Newme wrote:If we as a society continue to devalue life of the most defenseless and innocent, consider what that implies.
John Denver is wrong in everything he says in that video. He's just appealing to people's emotions with his tone of voice, body language and minor-key music. All underhanded tactics.
Nick Cannon can only be grateful that his mother didn't abort him because his mother didn't abort him, and you can only refer to this in your weepy complaints because your mother didn't abort you, and so on and so on. Everything is dependent on something else.
The Matthew West video is obviously a cheap pro-life propaganda video thrown together without much effort, which is not surprising for the losing pro-life movement. They're getting desperate.
The bottom line is that life does not matter except to your own personal view of it. So, as you had asked previously, why do you matter more than others?
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