Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

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Eonblue
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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Eonblue » May 8th, 2013, 4:47 pm

Quotidian wrote:This is the voice of fear, isn't it? Can't you see this is only fear speaking? Once it takes hold, it spirals, so everyone must have a gun, because of the fear you will be the only one unarmed.
So I want to arm the mentally ill and felon because I'm afraid of being the only one unarmed? Your drawing conclusions with thin air. If you want to know who I think should own a gun and who should not just ask. I realize your posturing with rhetoric but your statement is not worth responding so let me tell you what I fear.

I fear the progressive shadow of regulation. A shadow that would creep into every aspect of human life and try to control it. The progressive shadow wont stop at gun. Taking a gun out of the hand of law abiding citizens wont be enough. The crusade will continue on till you have camera on every street corner watching your every move. Not even the dark of night will give you privacy. They will see through your walls and your windows. I fear the future. I fear the loss of our free will. You would willingly give away the only true form of protest. Without a gun we are sheep in the fields. You would willingly let the strong dominate the weak because you have faith it will all be alright in the end. You can't regulate the criminal. Your not eliminating the victim your just redirecting numbers.

Xris
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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Xris » May 8th, 2013, 5:16 pm

Eonblue wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


So I want to arm the mentally ill and felon because I'm afraid of being the only one unarmed? Your drawing conclusions with thin air. If you want to know who I think should own a gun and who should not just ask. I realize your posturing with rhetoric but your statement is not worth responding so let me tell you what I fear.

I fear the progressive shadow of regulation. A shadow that would creep into every aspect of human life and try to control it. The progressive shadow wont stop at gun. Taking a gun out of the hand of law abiding citizens wont be enough. The crusade will continue on till you have camera on every street corner watching your every move. Not even the dark of night will give you privacy. They will see through your walls and your windows. I fear the future. I fear the loss of our free will. You would willingly give away the only true form of protest. Without a gun we are sheep in the fields. You would willingly let the strong dominate the weak because you have faith it will all be alright in the end. You can't regulate the criminal. Your not eliminating the victim your just redirecting numbers.
so you do not believe in gun control.So with your fear why not let every one be permitted to keep explosives, missiles, tanks, even fighter jets? Why not?

Eonblue
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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Eonblue » May 8th, 2013, 8:42 pm

[/quote]
so you do not believe in gun control.So with your fear why not let every one be permitted to keep explosives, missiles, tanks, even fighter jets? Why not?[/quote]

Your assumption is wrong. I agree with gun control. I agree with it on a state level and I support the federal government in banning certain types of assault rifles. This thread is not centered around gun control though. The topic is "should people be allowed to own gun?". This is not moderation or control. It's a ban that if violated would have severe punishment under federal law. Essentially you would be punishing a woman for wanting to protect herself. Your punishing a hunter for providing food. Your banning a parent from protecting their kids. A federal ban is not the answer. I support harsher penalties for gun law violators, thorough background checks, mental illness prevention, and I would love the federal government to reinforce the states on prevention and regulation.

Let me give a homework assignment. I want everyone to research the gun crime rates in the major cities. All the highest rates will be in cities with the strictest gun control laws.

You can't stop the criminal if he wants to get a gun. The progressives can try with every little regulating bone in their body to curb illegal gun sales but if they ban guns all they will do is balloon the illegal markets and put SUBSTANTIALLY more money into the hands of the cartels and criminals.

Lastly I'm not going to answer questions about tanks and missiles. I don't need to justify myself by working my way around straw man fallacies.

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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by wanabe » May 8th, 2013, 10:16 pm

Quotidian,

We can all wonder what the founders meant, but they knew the horrors of war, there was a reason they ensured people had arms, that reason was insurance from tyranny, that means keeping up with the technology.

Xris,

Yes, I agree with gun control. Since the beginning of this thread I have said that people should have licensing to own and operate whatever guns they like.

Keithprosser3,
Only people who don't want a gun should be allowed to have one.

They would probably all become statistics. Poetic though.
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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Xris » May 9th, 2013, 8:29 am

wanabe wrote:Quotidian,

We can all wonder what the founders meant, but they knew the horrors of war, there was a reason they ensured people had arms, that reason was insurance from tyranny, that means keeping up with the technology.

Xris,

Yes, I agree with gun control. Since the beginning of this thread I have said that people should have licensing to own and operate whatever guns they like.

Keithprosser3,


(Nested quote removed.)

They would probably all become statistics. Poetic though.
You can not agree with gun control and then dictate what that control might be. If you agree that a citizen can hold any gun he likes for the argument given why not ballistic missiles or explosives. The argument you put forward could be used to own any weapon to secure your freedom, from any threat. So what would you permit ? I don't think anyone has denied guns completely even though the thread asked that question. I think you are marginalised if you support the ownership of assault rifles or machine guns. Compromise by consensus and argument has to be the sensible way forward.Stricter measures on who owns what has to be made law for the safety of all Americans.

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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by wanabe » May 9th, 2013, 1:12 pm

Xris,
Xris wrote:You can not agree with gun control and then dictate what that control might be. If you agree that a citizen can hold any gun he likes for the argument given why not ballistic missiles or explosives. The argument you put forward could be used to own any weapon to secure your freedom, from any threat. So what would you permit ? I don't think anyone has denied guns completely even though the thread asked that question. I think you are marginalized if you support the ownership of assault rifles or machine guns. Compromise by consensus and argument has to be the sensible way forward.Stricter measures on who owns what has to be made law for the safety of all Americans.
I just did. Because missiles/explosives cause WAY more collateral damage. No, I don't intend to argue that. Guns, I would permit guns. People have said that guns should be banned completely, and I agree, but given the proper timing. Yes, I'm marginalized for being moderate. I don't think billy-bob will ever need a ballistic missile nor could he buy one, nor could he have all the equipment to actually operate one. Argument and compromise, that's what we're doing.
Secret To Eternal Life: Live Life To The Fullest, Help All Others To Do So.Meaning of Life Is Choice. Increase choice through direct perception. Golden rule+universality principal+Promote benefits-harm+logical consistency=morality.BeTheChange.

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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Xris » May 9th, 2013, 2:40 pm

wanabe wrote:Xris,


(Nested quote removed.)


I just did. Because missiles/explosives cause WAY more collateral damage. No, I don't intend to argue that. Guns, I would permit guns. People have said that guns should be banned completely, and I agree, but given the proper timing. Yes, I'm marginalized for being moderate. I don't think billy-bob will ever need a ballistic missile nor could he buy one, nor could he have all the equipment to actually operate one. Argument and compromise, that's what we're doing.
So you would want a gun that can fire a thousand rounds per second but not a pound of explosives? I am confused, you want a machine gun but you believe guns should be banned but not yet. When exactly? To be honest I am totally confused what the gun lobbyist supporters on this thread really want and what compromise they are willing to make on gun control.

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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Spiral Out » May 9th, 2013, 5:57 pm

Xris wrote:So you would want a gun that can fire a thousand rounds per second but not a pound of explosives?
People who like guns appreciate the design, feel, operation and use of guns. Explosives doesn't offer the same feel. There is no appreciable design element or operative use to explosives. Firing a RPG, bazooka or missile wouldn't have the same appeal that firing a gun would.

If you don't like guns then you can't really understand it. I guess that's why you're asking the type of questions like the one above.
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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Xris » May 10th, 2013, 6:02 am

Spiral Out wrote: (Nested quote removed.)


People who like guns appreciate the design, feel, operation and use of guns. Explosives doesn't offer the same feel. There is no appreciable design element or operative use to explosives. Firing a RPG, bazooka or missile wouldn't have the same appeal that firing a gun would.

If you don't like guns then you can't really understand it. I guess that's why you're asking the type of questions like the one above.
So it comes down to some kind of childish desire why guns are going to be continually used to kill innocent children.As a soldier in her magesties army, my training included the use of many weapons and I did enjoy firing them but to take that enjoyment back to civilian street would never have entered my head.My battalion was the last to fire the vickers machine gun dating back to WW. It was a frightening machine and to even start to imagine any civilian could possibly own one has me wondering if you are all simply mad.

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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Spiral Out » May 10th, 2013, 6:30 am

childish desire
Why is the appreciation for guns childish?
continually used to kill innocent children
Responsible gun owners don't kill innocent children.
As a soldier in her magesties army, my training included the use of many weapons and I did enjoy firing them but to take that enjoyment back to civilian street would never have entered my head.
Nor any other responsible gun owner. What's your point?
It was a frightening machine and to even start to imagine any civilian could possibly own one has me wondering if you are all simply mad.
There's a big difference between "owning" and "using to kill innocent children."

Perhaps you are a bit too emotional to have a rational understanding of this topic.
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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Xris » May 10th, 2013, 8:35 am

Responsible citizens would accept their gun culture is causing the death of innocent children.Yes I do get emotional when grown men can not see their childish attachment to guns is causing the death of thousands.You can ignore the statistics, the valid arguments, the moral reasoning but you can not deny the gun culture is destroying more lives, ever year, than any war America has been involved in since the civil war. It makes 9.11 look like a minor road accident in terms of lives lost in any one year.Go get your assault rifle and enjoy yourself but please do not believe it is an adult and responsible sport.

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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Spiral Out » May 10th, 2013, 1:25 pm

Xris wrote:Responsible citizens would accept their gun culture is causing the death of innocent children.
Responsible gun owners are not contributing to the deaths that are happening due to criminals and negligent irresponsible gun owners. Responsible gun owners realize this so they are not inclined to forfeit a right that they are not abusing, and that the criminals and negligent irresponsible gun owners are placing in jeopardy. You cannot punish the many for the actions of the few. Maybe that's how the English do it, but that's not the American way.
Xris wrote:Yes I do get emotional when grown men can not see their childish attachment to guns is causing the death of thousands.
You're too emotional. It's affecting your judgment. Owning, appreciating, respecting and lawfully using guns is simply not childish.
Xris wrote:You can ignore the statistics, the valid arguments, the moral reasoning but you can not deny the gun culture is destroying more lives, ever year, than any war America has been involved in since the civil war.
Yes, you've used statistics to further your argument many times but those statistics are not telling the whole story in any relevant context.
Xris wrote:It makes 9.11 look like a minor road accident in terms of lives lost in any one year.
Those two issues have no analogous relationship to each other whatsoever. You're irresponsibly appealing to emotion.
Xris wrote:Go get your assault rifle and enjoy yourself but please do not believe it is an adult and responsible sport.
You seem unable to use any level of sensible reasoning. How is it not an adult and responsible activity if I simply own a firearm or take it to the range to shoot at practice targets?
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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Xris » May 11th, 2013, 6:16 am

There is no such thing as the average sensible machine gun owner. It is a contradiction in terms.Any grown man who wants to fire a machine gun needs to get a reality check.I can understand why certain weapons are required in certain circumstances but your attitude towards the subject is quite frightening.When any damned fool can obtain the most dangerous of automatic guns, something has to change and your obstinacy is simply delaying that change. I just wonder how many innocent children have to die before you accept that fact.

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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Spiral Out » May 11th, 2013, 7:13 am

Xris wrote:There is no such thing as the average sensible machine gun owner.
Sure there is. I've met a lot of them. They are the most grounded people you will meet.
Xris wrote:It is a contradiction in terms.
Only to those who are emotionally involved in an anti-gun campaign.
Xris wrote:Any grown man who wants to fire a machine gun needs to get a reality check.
And I say any grown man who gets emotionally distraught at the thought of someone owning a firearm needs a reality check. What does it prove? Where is the reasoning?
Xris wrote:I can understand why certain weapons are required in certain circumstances but your attitude towards the subject is quite frightening.
So is it simply necessity that drives this bus? What is your specific criteria for defining what is necessary?
Xris wrote:When any damned fool can obtain the most dangerous of automatic guns, something has to change and your obstinacy is simply delaying that change.
I don't think "any damned fool" should be able to obtain "the most dangerous of automatic guns" either. Do you think that I am one of those "damned fools"?
Xris wrote:I just wonder how many innocent children have to die before you accept that fact.
Many innocent children also die at the hands of drunk drivers. Do you wish to ban all alcohol as well? Do you think that people should only be allowed to have beer but not tequila, such as allowing people to only have handguns but not assault rifles? Perhaps only those "damned fools" are to be denied their alcohol?
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Re: Should People Be Allowed to Own Guns?

Post by Xris » May 11th, 2013, 7:36 am

You are one of those who do not realise that damned fools are obtaining guns legally and even illegally because gun salesmen have no scruples to who they sell them to. I am sorry you find my views on those who want to own machine guns offensive but I am sure you would find it even more offensive if you encountered a fool with one in your back yard. You fail to realise your views are indicative of Americas growing problem with guns. Your love of guns is driving this insanity.

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