The temptation of Eternal Sleep (Death)

[ThamiorTheThinker]

I have given, in the title of this post, a label to the temptation of suicide and other related causes of biological death.

It's fascinating, isn't it? We homosapiens have the ability to override our natural instinct to live. We can actually tempt ourselves to enter an eternal resting place - the black void of nothingness that is non-existence. We actually have the ability to kill ourselves.

I've wondered for years how it is that a being can desire non-existence, how a human can push itself past the limitations of its animal instinct and brain and commit suicide. We are by nature and essence self-preserving entities. Yet, we find reasons to cease our own existence. There are cases in which people don't find reason to continue living, and so they can actually DECIDE that they desire eternal unconsciousness as opposed to all the wonders life can bring.

For any of you that may have had suicidal thoughts, may I ask you (consider this an intellectual curiosity) what is so tempting about the void that is non-existence/death? What beckons/has beckoned you forth so strongly that you have actually thought it possible that you could put cease to your own life?

I'm not encouraging suicide through these words, if anybody is worried. I'm neutral about the subject. I believe that one is allowed to do what they wish with their body and brain. However, I shall not say whether or not one SHOULD commit suicide - please don't misconstrue my words. I am NOT asking if one is willing to kill themselves or that they ought to. I am only asking what is so tempting about the notion of doing so.

[Empiricist-Bruno]

I'm not sure that the temptation is an intellectual one. At least, it wasn't for me, back in those depressed days. You just see the subway coming and the thought of running in front of it crosses your mind and for some unexplainable reason, it gives you a great feeling and bang, you just act on this hunch. It's just about doing what feels like the right thing. It feels good.

And anyway, there is no evidence that anyone of us will enter an eternal resting place. That's just a cultural concept, just like death is such a concept too. No one is ever there anymore when one dies, right? And life does not just bring wonders. Depression is not so much of a wonderful thing. Life does has this to offer you.

[ThamiorTheThinker]

I'm not sure that the temptation is an intellectual one. At least, it wasn't for me, back in those depressed days. You just see the subway coming and the thought of running in front of it crosses your mind and for some unexplainable reason, it gives you a great feeling and bang, you just act on this hunch. It's just about doing what feels like the right thing. It feels good.

And anyway, there is no evidence that anyone of us will enter an eternal resting place. That's just a cultural concept, just like death is such a concept too. No one is ever there anymore when one dies, right? And life does not just bring wonders. Depression is not so much of a wonderful thing. Life does has this to offer you.

What I was referring to is the fact that you (likely) lose all conscious experience upon death. When I was referring to an "eternal resting place", I was using a metaphor for the lack of consciousness, akin to when one falls asleep. I was equating death to eternal sleep without dreams, because you won't be aware of anything ever again.

If there is no afterlife, reincarnation, et cetera, then certainly we shall be forever at rest after our bodies and brains die. Nothing shall harm you further, because you shall not be alive, conscious and awake to be harmed.

Derek Muller from the YouTube channel Veritasium describes the state of non-existence as not being an experience at all: "A nothingness so complete, you won't even miss it", to put it into his words.

If death is the final frontier, then I can understand why. It would not be painful, boring or stressful, for you cannot experience a lack of experiences. You would simply fall asleep, and never wake up.

[RyanDoede13]

I will answer this from an evolutionary and philosophical standpoint but also mention that I did indeed have similar temptations at one point. Now, I can say though, in agreeing with you, that it's an insane thing to think to desire to kill one's self. We as humans know that that life has many possibilities and has so many experiences yet to experience at every moment, yet sometimes we seem to want death
The first will be quick, in that it is only a loose theory of mine, and could probably be easily disagreed with. As far as evolutionary psychologists go, they would say that Depression is a sort of weakness, and that it is a character of someone who is low on the evolutionary chain. I would think that its possible that suicidal temptations exist in order to "get rid" of the weak.
Thinking about death lately a lot, there is a reason why death can be good, and the one word answer to your question would be "suffering". That naturally, someone who is in a state of suffering, wants to get out of it. If me, sitting in a chair right now, were to feel uncomfortable, I would squirm and find a new position. Suicidal temptation is part of the mind's desire to get away from the pain when there seems to be no simple solution. Solutions like eating when your hungry and squirming out of uncomfortability. Like the other person in this discussion, it is a temptation and simply is there and it "feels right", out of the desire to escape suffering. No one who commits purposeful suicide, is someone who is not in a state of some kind of suffering.
While this still seems weird, because we as humans realize that both that the sun rises after the darkest night and that there is so much to live for in life, we defy these known beliefs and still want to kill ourselves. This is due to that "Moods Assail Us" - Heidegger, that we seem to become overcome by certain moods. This is where I get to apply my own philosophical idea that our reality is skewed by these moods at times. That when certain moods and feelings come onto us strongly, we start to view life differently. And that this, to some degree is out of our control and seems at times to defy rationale and logic and therefore make us act illogically. Doing this just because it "feels right". One example could be someone who is so happy, excited and so "in-the-moment" that they make stupid decisions such as doing drugs, alcohol or other things one may do and regret later. Going off that, I sort of think emotions sometimes as drugs, that when intoxicated, we can't perceive life rationally.
When in the state of suffering, the desire to escape it causes the desire to die and the overwhelming judgement change would remove the logical realization that there are many reasons to live. I apologize for not sharing a personal experience, but when looking back on it, my two stated reasons for why someone would commit suicide, are very relevant to my exact state of mind when I did have those feelings.

[Wolfwolfson]

Once while sitting in a pub minding my own business a stranger said to me,why don't you kill yourself?
This person had lots of pals and seemed
to be having a good time.I was on my own and I suppose,looking blue.I think his remark was brutal and cruel,after all
for all he knew I could have been on the
edge.Anyway I wasn't so containing my
anger replied,I can't be bothered.

[ThamiorTheThinker]

Thank you all for the responses! I've learned much about the concept of death as of late. I appreciate all the responses.

[Ormond]

We can actually tempt ourselves to enter an eternal resting place - the black void of nothingness that is non-existence.

Um, we don't know if it's eternal, we don't know if it's a resting place, we don't know if it's a black void of nothingness, and we don't know if it's non-existence. We can tempt ourselves to leap in to the unknown.

The "black void of nothingness" idea seems to arise from the fact that we can't remember anything from before we are born. But then we can't remember the first couple years of life, or that third of our life we spend sleeping, or even most of the waking days of our life either. Thus, not being able to remember something seems a rather poor guide to what that something might be.

[ThamiorTheThinker]

We can actually tempt ourselves to enter an eternal resting place - the black void of nothingness that is non-existence.

Um, we don't know if it's eternal, we don't know if it's a resting place, we don't know if it's a black void of nothingness, and we don't know if it's non-existence. We can tempt ourselves to leap in to the unknown.

The "black void of nothingness" idea seems to arise from the fact that we can't remember anything from before we are born. But then we can't remember the first couple years of life, or that third of our life we spend sleeping, or even most of the waking days of our life either. Thus, not being able to remember something seems a rather poor guide to what that something might be.

That is true, but to make any other assumption is to claim something that science cannot support. If the brain is the center of consciousness and perception, then to kill the brain is to halt perception. Makes sense, no? Regardless, the point remains. Do you have any other input?

[Sy Borg]

I agree with Ormond regarding our unknowing relationship with death. Ormond does not appear to be claiming or assuming anything about death and its aftermath, simply stating that none of us have a clue.

Other species kill themselves too, just that the problem of other minds makes it impossible to know whether they are knowingly killing themselves: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php ... t-suicide/

Terrible as it is for those involved, suicide seems no more significant philosophically than computer glitches. We humans have especially complex systems in our bodies and complex systems have more components to potentially malfunction.

There must certainly come a time for all when life becomes intolerable. Usually it's towards the end of fatal illnesses but sometimes unfortunately mental and emotional malfunctions occur.

[ThamiorTheThinker]

I agree with Ormond regarding our unknowing relationship with death. Ormond does not appear to be claiming or assuming anything about death and its aftermath, simply stating that none of us have a clue.

Other species kill themselves too, just that the problem of other minds makes it impossible to know whether they are knowingly killing themselves: http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php ... t-suicide/

Terrible as it is for those involved, suicide seems no more significant philosophically than computer glitches. We humans have especially complex systems in our bodies and complex systems have more components to potentially malfunction.

There must certainly come a time for all when life becomes intolerable. Usually it's towards the end of fatal illnesses but sometimes unfortunately mental and emotional malfunctions occur.

But we DO have a clue. We know that the brain is linked to perception, memory and sensation, and so these things, we can assume, would end when the brain stops functioning.

[Sy Borg]

But we DO have a clue. We know that the brain is linked to perception, memory and sensation, and so these things, we can assume, would end when the brain stops functioning.

Are you certain that all there is to consciousness is neurons forming patterns via natural selection, bringing an accidental ability that happens to be efficacious to survival? That's all there is?

[ThamiorTheThinker]

But we DO have a clue. We know that the brain is linked to perception, memory and sensation, and so these things, we can assume, would end when the brain stops functioning.

Are you certain that all there is to consciousness is neurons forming patterns via natural selection, bringing an accidental ability that happens to be efficacious to survival? That's all there is?

I'm not certain, but I know that synapses are corollary to perception and awareness. So, I can guess reasonably that they have something in common. Also, when people are in comas or under other forms of limited brain activity, they tend not to recall events that occurred, indicating that they were unconscious. If that happens when the brain isn't fully halted, I can imagine that stopping brain function would produce a similar effect.

-- Updated February 19th, 2016, 12:01 pm to add the following --

(Nested quote removed.)

Are you certain that all there is to consciousness is neurons forming patterns via natural selection, bringing an accidental ability that happens to be efficacious to survival? That's all there is?

I'm not certain, but I know that synapses are corollary to perception and awareness. So, I can guess reasonably that they have something in common. Also, when people are in comas or under other forms of limited brain activity, they tend not to recall events that occurred, indicating that they were unconscious. If that happens when the brain isn't fully halted, I can imagine that stopping brain function would produce a similar effect.

To assume anything beyond this is to rpduce unanswerable questions. Yes, it is true that I do not know what occurs after death for an individual, but I cannot make any assumptions, and thus I must rely on what science can tell me.