The Source Of Human Problems

[Present awareness]

Ormond said,
"Yes, because it is the divisive nature of thought which creates the illusion of time. Time is a conceptual division, right? There is no actual real world place called "the past" or "the future". We believe deeply in these concepts because they feel so real to us, but the past and future are as devoid of concrete tangible substance as any god ever proclaimed."

Well said Ormond! Humans like to slice into parts, that which is indivisible. The divisive nature of thought, not only creates the illusion of time, but also the illusion of our own seperate existence. The line drawn between me and not me, is imaginary. We may imagine that everything beyond our physical body is not "us". Yet we are all connected directly to the same atmosphere, with air flowing in and out of our lungs. At what point exactly, does the air flowing in become "us", and the air flowing out become "not us"?

[Ormond]

It seems entirely logical that someone with the screen name "present awareness" would get all this on their own without the need of my compulsively wordy never ending sermons which are essentially arguments with themselves.

If you'd like to share how you explore present awareness, please do.

[Sy Borg]

Hi Greta the Great!

Enjoying some Christmas cheer, by any chance? :)

Push visuals and words out of your head, and reality seems very different - much more present moment oriented.

Yes, because it is the divisive nature of thought which creates the illusion of time. Time is a conceptual division, right? There is no actual real world place called "the past" or "the future". We believe deeply in these concepts because they feel so real to us, but the past and future are as devoid of concrete tangible substance as any god ever proclaimed.[/quote]
But how meaningful is life without deep consideration of past and future? Insects seem to live purely in the present, but I don't see their state of being as desirable. The present moment is an elusive cipher, never grasped, nor even graspable. The degree of balance between the sensuous now and abstracted past and future would seem pivotal, and probably individual.

Actually, I was just observing that our uneven use of senses gives us an unbalanced view of reality. As you'd agree, as a geek, that most of human abstractions are based on visual information. This does affect what we think of as the self. We figure that our skin and its casing fully encloses "me" and what is outside is "not me". Yet we are surrounded by non visible biological, radioactive and gravitational fields that are very much part of us, just not considered "important" by our evolved nervous systems.

When reality is considered in lieu of visuals, it can seem rather alien and weird. Or is that just me? lol

The present moment for many people is awful, and it's no surprise that they often retreat into the mental world of religion.

There's no fundamental difference between the person who distracts themselves from personal pain with immersion in religion, and the person who distracts themselves from personal pain with immersion in anti-religion. The apparent great divide between these two groups is mostly an illusion.

Can be, but often not. Most secularists are passively not interested in the Abrahamic myths, just as they don't believe in ancient Greek, Roman, Nordic, Egyptian or indigenous myths. The active and passive are not equivalent. But yes, secularists have their own mental an emotional "toys" to keep them amused.

In both cases, religious and secular, we suffer from the thought generated illusion of division. And in both cases we try to heal that wound by applying more thought, that which is causing the wound.

Nothing wrong with giving the brain a rest. Still, it depends. Problems that are not directly dealt with can fester amorphously like mould in our unconscious unless exposed to the light of knowledge. This internal pressure can manifest in problematic ways unless dealt with.

What I love most about knowledge (aside from usual curiosity) is that it can rob our fears of their power. What I like least about it is that it can alert us to other fears when ignorance would be more "blissful".

Experiments on brain function and reaction times have shown us that humans, like other species, are largely a bundle of unthinking programmed and conditioned compulsions. However, unlike humans, other species are less likely to engage in post hoc rationalisations :)

This theory explains why such conversations have been going round and round and round for endless centuries, and they never accomplish anything. It's like trying to cure alcoholism with cases of scotch. The more thought booze we consume, the deeper our addiction becomes, the more we suffer, and thus the more we reach for the next bottle.

How does one break that cycle?

If a consumer has a problem with a faulty product, then it's the buyer who effectively pays for that CQ with their time and effort.

Good God woman, you are a mind reader too!

If you want to find a major, major source of human problems look no further than the relationship between institutions and individuals. Politicians no longer represent and govern for people but institutions. What choice do they have? The rise of humanity at large was a source of great hardship for wild animals and humans living in small groups. The rise of institutions will similarly be a source of great hardship for unaligned human individuals. In nature it seems there is always a new "big dog in town" to displace the last.

Since consumer watchdogs everywhere have been de-fanged and de-barked, companies can play this game with impunity, effectively using their customer as unpaid employees.

Seriously, did you somehow discover the thread linked to above on your own? If not, this is really spooky!

Logical convergence of ideas because we are often subject to similar influences - such as being routinely burnt by apparently untouchable companies!

From the start humans have been compelled to live in groups, "social animals", as they say. The bigger the group, the more power, then the better chance of surviving. So we gathered in greater and greater numbers. What gives us competitive advantages today gives us the existential threat of environmental system breakdowns.

Yes, the urbanization of humanity. As best I can tell, the next stage now beginning will be the digitization of humanity, going "in to the Matrix" so to speak.

Think about it. We select particular people as friends in order to better control our inner psychological experience. So for instance, if I yell too much, you'll dump me as a friend because I'm creating too much noise inside of your head. The key here is to see that friends are not really the issue, they are just a means to the end of managing our internal experience. And so the question arises...

How much longer are any of us going to be interested in real humans whom we have to compromise and negotiate with etc when...

Digital life forms can be anything we want them to be.

Once this forum is updated to the next software version, I'm going to click the button that turns all of you in to gorgeous 25 year redheads who think I'm the most handsome brilliant genius you have ever laid eyes on. The rest of the story is X rated, so go mind your own business... :-)

I think digitisation is our only hope. There's studies showing that those living with more space around them tend to be happier than urbanites (once a baseline level of affluence is achieved), supported by logic and experience. It seems to me that one who is "plugged into the Matrix" in a small room is impacting the environment less than one who is engaging in physical activities that involve machines or large land areas.

It seems to me that traffic, crowding, pollution, cultural barrenness, the decline of "meatspace retail" along with the expanding online services will make leaving home both less necessary and attractive, for either work or play. Like a new form of mitochondria powering up our "cells", we humans will have food and information sent to our doors and to our screens. Like mitochondria, we will no longer swim freely (or those who did, perished) and instead our role is to energise the "cells" (internet-connected homes), driving energy and information in and out, back and forth between institutions and its individuals.

[Ormond]

Enjoying some Christmas cheer, by any chance?

In the Allman Brothers tune "Wasted Words" Greg Allman soulfully sang...

Well, I ain't no saint and sure as hell ain't no savior,
Every other Christmas I would practice good behavior.
That was then, this is now, don't ask me to be Mister Clean,
'cause baby, I don't know how.

If anyone else would like me to display social skills in their direction, you have 5 more hours to submit your order.

[Present awareness]

Greta, you paint a rather bleak picture at the end of your last post. It is probably already true for some people.
Ormond, I relate to what you are saying and like how you express it using words.

A walk in the forest, is a great place to absorb present moment stimulation. The sound of the birds, or wind through the trees, the smell of pine, the sight of plants, trees and rock, the warmth of the sun on your skin etc. All of those things are there, even if one is lost in thought about whether the stock market is going up or down.

Compulsive thinking may very well be the source of human discontentment. One may not stop the thinking process by thinking about not thinking. Meditation, is an attempt to still the mind, by focussing on something else other then thoughts. The thoughts will always be there, but by not paying attention to them, they seem to fall into the background. The practice is not quite as easy as it sounds, but it does help to still the mind. In the same way that still water becomes like a mirror, a still mind reflects stimulation to the source, aware but detached. By looking at nothing in particular, it is looking at everything in general.

[Sy Borg]

Greta, you paint a rather bleak picture at the end of your last post. It is probably already true for some people.

The big picture is necessarily bleak because it must either develop or stagnate. Conditions always change, yet we prefer stability. The personal arena, as Ormond suggests, provides some possibility of temporary stillness/stability, being a domain that's small enough for us to control.

Still, with enough distance everything is beautiful, and the fractal echo of "human mitochondria" is fascinating, even if cyborgism doesn't appeal to everyone. It's an interesting aspect of evolution, where species thrive in captivity better than when free - seemingly during times when when the broader environment is undergoing dangerous change.

A walk in the forest, is a great place to absorb present moment stimulation. The sound of the birds, or wind through the trees, the smell of pine, the sight of plants, trees and rock, the warmth of the sun on your skin etc. All of those things are there, even if one is lost in thought about whether the stock market is going up or down.

It depends. The birds are often shouting abuse and warnings - dinosaur roars prettified to our ear by the reduced scale. The plants that bring us peace tend to be engaged in life-and-death slow motion combat with other plants, tussling for ground space and access to sunlight. The distant, romantic view is fun but, like the dream of the noble savage, there is a distance and suspended empathy required, akin to suspending belief to enjoy a movie.

Yet what might it feel like to be these small things living under humanity's yoke? How would it feel to see the huge beasts (ie. us) plodding up the bush path (with their sunglasses and water bottles) like dangerous gods?

Another thought: the problems that panic - the fight-or-flight response - brings to modern lives.

[Present awareness]

There are, of course, many ways to look at things. I prefer to see the forest as a picture of harmony. Without feelings or emotions, the concept of struggle would be unknown to plants. I tend to see all types of vegetation sharing the soil and light, "just as they are" in the present moment, blissfully unaware of their own existence.

As a side note, if vegetables do have feelings, vegetarians should reconsider eating them.

[Sy Borg]

There are, of course, many ways to look at things. I prefer to see the forest as a picture of harmony. Without feelings or emotions, the concept of struggle would be unknown to plants. I tend to see all types of vegetation sharing the soil and light, "just as they are" in the present moment, blissfully unaware of their own existence.

As a side note, if vegetables do have feelings, vegetarians should reconsider eating them.

The forest probably (hopefully) is harmonious on an ecological scale. So is human society, if you stand back far enough. It's not a matter of plants feeling things but each plant's circumstances.

Re: "blissfully unaware of their own existence" - do you think that a state of living that lacks awareness is necessarily blissful? (On any bar a philosophy forum I would have let the phrase go as just a figure of speech :).

[Ormond]

One may not stop the thinking process by thinking about not thinking. Meditation, is an attempt to still the mind, by focussing on something else other then thoughts. The thoughts will always be there, but by not paying attention to them, they seem to fall into the background. The practice is not quite as easy as it sounds, but it does help to still the mind. In the same way that still water becomes like a mirror, a still mind reflects stimulation to the source, aware but detached.

Great description!

It's perhaps helpful here to add that just as the mind affects the body (chronic overthinking can literally make us physically ill) the body can also affect the mind. "Mind" and "body" are of course just nouns that imply a division that doesn't actually exist.

Here's an exercise that some might find useful.

Go for a walk.

When you start, walk at any speed your mind wants to go. Don't try to change anything, just observe the act of walking as closely as you can. We'll call this 10mph walking.

After awhile, tap on the brakes a bit, and bring your walking pace down to 9mph. Just a small change. Now observe this pace for awhile. Once 9mph feels like the natural normal pace to be walking...

Tap the brakes again and slow to 8mph walking. Repeat the process above. Observe this pace until it feels like the natural normal pace to be walking.

Continue with this process, giving each step a generous helping of time.

When you get to 1mph the game becomes to keep walking, as slowly as you can. This requires more concentration as you will have to focus on lifting each foot and then placing it on the ground ahead as slowly as you can. You will look ridiculous to passers by, and that's good, a little humility exercise too.

The point here is, you can control your mind mechanically by controlling your body mechanically. If you patiently slow your body down, if you apply enough patience, your mind will fall in to line with the program and slow down too.

If you should apply such an exercise patiently over time, just as one would patiently do situps over time to get a flatter stomach, sooner or later you will likely find yourself standing in one place for an hour just watching nature happen in front of you. The relentless becoming, becoming, becoming agendas of an over active mind will fade in to the background or vanish altogether, and just being will feel like enough.

Pretend you're a tree. Rooted to the ground. With nowhere to go, and nothing to do. And that's enough.

[Present awareness]

You are rights Greta, it's more of a figure of speech then anything else. Unawareness would also include unawareness of bliss! Prior to my own birth, I was unaware of my own existence for countless billions of years. Although there is no remember happiness during that passage of time, there is no remembered sadness either, no remember pleasure but also no remembered pain.

[Sy Borg]

You are rights Greta, it's more of a figure of speech then anything else. Unawareness would also include unawareness of bliss! Prior to my own birth, I was unaware of my own existence for countless billions of years. Although there is no remembered happiness during that passage of time, there is no remembered sadness either, no remembered pleasure but also no remembered pain.

Which, on a subjective level, means that each life is meaningless - just one more entirely replaceable and expendable ripple in a river that almost immediately dissipates and is entirely forgotten soon after that.

On an objective, level, however, each life plays its role in the universe's grand development and leaves an ultimately permanent mark that could be traced back in detail to the point of accurate reconstruction with sufficiently advanced forensic technology and methods.

[Present awareness]

An interesting walking exercise Ormond. The yoga masters noticed a similar effect, when focussing on the breath and slowing it down. A long slow breath, had the tendency to calm the mind, proving it to be very useful in meditation.