How can we deal with insane users of these forums

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by -1- » July 31st, 2017, 10:17 pm

(Assuming an evil smile and fingertips clicking away against each other), ... wow... I can pay my way to become an admin myself... and change the system from within. I could pull down all the posts by other admins... and eventually hang the king, and rail at all his servants... and of course grab the jewel of all posters, the beautiful and brainy Greta, like a serpentine dragon grabs the youngest and fairest princess from the king's bevy of beautiful babes...

But alas, I am too much of a pacifist wienie to do such a forceful thing... oh, well, one day...

-- Updated 2017 July 31st, 10:30 pm to add the following --
Steve3007 wrote: ...that would involve me declaring myself insane to try to get thrown out of this website and being told by a moderator that being able to declare myself insane demonstrates that I'm not. Maybe it's Catch 21.

I think if you declared to the forum that you are insane, you would be banned because calling a user insane is a personal, flaming attack.


If you were reading this I think it would give you food for thought.
Thanks, but I can't, possibly, take another helping. I'm so full... ooy, I can't eat a thing.

Btw, everyone keeps talking about food for thought, but nobody talks about sh*t for thought. Although a supervisor of mine back a thousand years ago, used the expression "sh*t for brain" quite extensively.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Greta » July 31st, 2017, 11:37 pm

-1- wrote:... I can pay my way to become an admin myself... and change the system from within. I could pull down all the posts by other admins... and eventually hang the king, and rail at all his servants... and of course grab the jewel of all posters, the beautiful and brainy Greta, like a serpentine dragon grabs the youngest and fairest princess from the king's bevy of beautiful babes...
Seems like a decent idea, -1-. Although you may have a role wrong in the above narrative because I am a old dragon these days, mellow mainly through being too tired and lazy to breathe smoke and fire any more. The mission is ideally the rescue of these oppressed forum members from the wicked old dragon, Greta. I have on good authority (well, a determined "authority") that I am a staunch advocate of The Great Beast and an intolerant secularist who oppresses innocent theists. In truth, I was intolerant to persistent ad hominem attacks.

I have generally followed the lead of mods I've seen in action on other forums. While complaints about moderation are to be expected, especially with a drongo like me as Admin, insulting mods is seemingly always a sackable offence. I think the logic is that, since we do the work for free, we do not need to put up with unnecessary aggravations inflicted by the self-indulgent. I dislike banning immensely but I did notice that, with each banning, the standard and tenor of forum conversations improved.

Interesting that such bannings are basically a practical application of the trolley problem, but of course the trolley problem itself is an absolute bastard of a thing when you are the sucker who has to make a decision. It's not much fun for the poor schmuck forum intransigent set adrift for the good of the many either, even if their "injuries" are inevitably self inflicted.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Steve3007 » August 1st, 2017, 4:48 am

Greta:
Sometimes it's like watching a slow motion train crash. You see the crappy post. Then you see a couple of sane posts afterwards simply continuing the conversation. All will be going fine until some fool comes across the problem, ignores the sensible postings and goes hard at the antagonist who, like a fisherman, feels "the pull on the line" and starts reeling ...
Yes, I've both observed and taken part in this process myself before too.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Woodart » August 1st, 2017, 9:03 am

-1- wrote:(Assuming an evil smile and fingertips clicking away against each other), ... wow... I can pay my way to become an admin myself... and change the system from within. I could pull down all the posts by other admins... and eventually hang the king, and rail at all his servants...

There is a real downside to being a moderator - it is not all fun and games.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by -1- » August 1st, 2017, 12:34 pm

Woodart wrote: There is a real downside to being a moderator - it is not all fun and games.
That is one of the reasons for which I've decided a long time ago to not become one.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Greta » August 1st, 2017, 8:53 pm

Steve3007 wrote:Greta:
Sometimes it's like watching a slow motion train crash. You see the crappy post. Then you see a couple of sane posts afterwards simply continuing the conversation. All will be going fine until some fool comes across the problem, ignores the sensible postings and goes hard at the antagonist who, like a fisherman, feels "the pull on the line" and starts reeling ...
Yes, I've both observed and taken part in this process myself before too.
Ditto Steve, although I think you are one of the better ones.

One challenge I am trying to deal with is translating the babble in my head into something short and readable. I am just a beginner here, and still at the "constantly stuffing up" stage.

If we can keep monologues down, and add para breaks that are appropriate to screen rather than print reading, then I think there will be more understanding. It's hard to express complex concepts without falling into tl:dr. Often people will pick "red flag" comments out of a post without the context because the jabber was too much for them.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Aristocles » August 2nd, 2017, 1:13 am

LuckyR wrote:Still waiting for an example of an insane post, or a thread hijacked by insanity
From atheism being most logical thread:
-1- wrote:I hope to clear the original argument up for those who will read this post. This following post will not clearly show my point; my point was expressed on page three of this thread, in post #40.

I ask you to please read that post. This follwing is too discombobulated to see any clarity of the original argument. This post is a refutation of criticism by -0+, and it contains references to my original post, but not any clarity as to what I actually said.

--------------

-0+ you criticized all my points, and "independently" came to the same conclusions as I.

Your criticism, for almost or quite the entire part of it, consisted of denigrative attacks: for instance, you described my assumptions with the word "big". What's a big assumption compared to a small or medium assumption? You could have written "impossible to assume" or "improbable assumption" or "not likely to be true", or even "possible, but not likely". In each of these cases, that could cover your naming my claims for assumptions "big assumptions", you never denied the validity of my assumptions. So the assumptions were valid, and you agreed they were valid. I believe all you achieved with this section of the criticism is to soften up the reader, and train his mind to accept that I may have been wrong. You did not dismantle my logic and proved it wrong. You used purely psychological forces, and you cleverly did not go beyond that, lest you be shown to be wrong. You did not say, "-1- was wrong in this assumption", because you could be proven wrong. No, you just called my assumptions "big", and wrote a treatise why they were big, but you never refuted or invalidated or disagreed with any of them.

Later, you gave your version of the system. In essence, your description of the system was the same as mine, except you presented it in a light that mine was wrong and yours was right. What was the purpose of that?

Continuing with your criticism. You called one of my conclusions "questionable" but you did not prove it wrong. You agreed with it, because you did not prove it wrong. Again, just to soften up the audience.

Then came a criticism in two separate points, which I have to defend in its particularity:


-1- wrote:
If their ideology was clouded by "but it could be explained by the act of the supernatural", then the scientists could stretch, yawn, and give up their jobs, in futility.


-0+ wrote:
The idea that something could be explained by an act of the supernatural must also be accompanied by the idea that it could be explained by natural forces.
YOU, -0+, ARE IGNORING THE SEPARATION OF SUPERNATURAL FROM NATURAL BY THEIR WAY OF BEING UNPREDICTABLE VS PREDICTABLE IN THIS ARGUMENT OF YOURS. THIS IS WHY THIS POINT IS INCONSEQUENTIAL. Supernatural forces may or may not exist. Scientists can proceed with their examinations of nature and work to reverse engineer laws of predictability without any concern about whether the supernatural exists or not.

-1- wrote:
So the committing to the scientific assumption of no supernatural thingies is not logically necessary, and its validity can't be logically proven, but it has tremendous practical value.


-0+ wrote:
What tremendous practical value does committing to this provide?
THE PRACTICAL VALUE IS THAT WE CAN PREDICT THE FUTURE OF SOME OF THE ACTIONS IN THE UNIVERSE. Committing to either side could provide false confidence which could lead to a prolonged search for something that may end up having little or no practical value. YOU TRY TO GET A RESEARCH GRANT SAYING THAT YOU WILL INCORPORATE ALL FINDINGS OF UNPREDICTED RANDOM EVENTS DUE TO SUPERNATURAL FORCES IN YOUR STUDY. I MEANT TO SAY A BIT SARCASTICALLY, THAT YOU CAN'T LEARN TO USE THE UNPREDICTABLE TO PREDICT THE FUTURE. THAT IS THE PRACTICAL VALUE I ALLUDED TO. I'm sorry that I did not spell it out in full meaning in the original post.
============

To other readers of this forum but -0+ : I would like to suggest, if you are confused by my refutation of the criticism by -0+ of my earlier post, that you read my earlier post in full, without the interruptions of make-belief (what I consider make-belief) points by -0+. I hope to clear this argument up, and I hope that reading my original script in full, without interruptions, will make you understand clearly and relatively effortlessly what I had been trying to say. That should do it easier, than this discombobulated text of refutation of criticisms of claims. That was post #40 on page 3 of this thread.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by LuckyR » August 2nd, 2017, 7:20 pm

Thanks for the effort. I didn't follow that thread, so it sounds very strange out of context (I agree).

Threads routinely get "hijacked", heck I am a medium grade offender myself. However, I keep things rational.

Similarly, I have run into individuals whose logic framework is so clearly different from my own that they appear "insane" to my way of thinking, though I acknowledge that my personal framework is often not standard and likely appears just as odd to a different audience.

I guess the problem I have with the OP isn't the use of the word: "insane", rather the word: "we"; as it implies that there is a group of the non-insane and another of the insane, whereas it is more likely just two different groups.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Aristocles » August 2nd, 2017, 9:54 pm

Agreed. (In sound so, I would likewise agree I can be an offender also, but I do try to keep with the OP.) Additionally, I also would agree adding to the forum dissension does not help the philosophy transpire in threads.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by -1- » August 3rd, 2017, 2:48 pm

Greta wrote: It's hard to express complex concepts without falling into tl:dr. Often people will pick "red flag" comments out of a post without the context because the jabber was too much for them.
You are absolutely dead right about this, Greta. I am a big sinner who commits this often.

What do tl:dr stand for? It is not at all immediately obvious to me. I mean, if I live to be a thousand years old -- which I am planning to do and am fully expecting success in this endeavour-- I still won't know what tl:dr is all about. Some doctor? or drive? or ???

-- Updated 2017 August 3rd, 3:01 pm to add the following --
Aristocles wrote:
LuckyR wrote:Still waiting for an example of an insane post, or a thread hijacked by insanity
From atheism being most logical thread:
-1- wrote:I hope to clear the original argument up for those who will read this post. This following post will not clearly show my point; my point was expressed on page three of this thread, in post #40.

I ask you to please read that post. This follwing is too discombobulated to see any clarity of the original argument. This post is a refutation of criticism by -0+, and it contains references to my original post, but not any clarity as to what I actually said.

--------------
(etc.)
Thanks, Aristocles.

I think aside from proper paragraphing, and aside from enticing or venting anger, one of the most important things we can do on these forum threads is to be clear in the references we intertwine our points with.

For instance, there are some comments that start with "I agree with you" or "I tend to differ from your point of view", and continue on, and nobody knows who the "you" is, and which post or what argument the replier is alluding to.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Greta » August 3rd, 2017, 8:58 pm

-1- wrote:
Greta wrote: It's hard to express complex concepts without falling into tl:dr. Often people will pick "red flag" comments out of a post without the context because the jabber was too much for them.
You are absolutely dead right about this, Greta. I am a big sinner who commits this often.

What do tl:dr stand for? It is not at all immediately obvious to me. I mean, if I live to be a thousand years old -- which I am planning to do and am fully expecting success in this endeavour-- I still won't know what tl:dr is all about. Some doctor? or drive? or ???
A few seconds searching Google could save you a millennium of tormented wondering about that acronym, -1-.

If I may be so bold as to ask, what kind of crappy username is -1-, anyway? :lol: It feels weird addressing someone named -1-.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by -1- » August 4th, 2017, 2:49 am

What kind of crappy username is -1-? I don't know, Greta. Google it.

To the best of my knowledge, there currently exist no consensus on the classification of crappy usernames. I don't know therefore the name of the subgroup of all crappy usernames into which mine belongs --- if one exists in the first place.

You stamped me again, Greta.

-1- is definitely not sexual, or scatological, or enticing evil. It is not sexist, racist, sadist, masochist, religionist, communist, existentialist, Marxist-Leninist, Darwinist, Dawkinist, post-modernist or Trotskiite.

I'll be damned if I could name its specific kind of crap.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Steve3007 » August 4th, 2017, 4:23 pm

I've been meaning to ask this for a while: Are you related to -0+ ? Your names have a certain familial similarity. You vaguely seem like a particle and anti-particle that might annihilate on contact.

-- Updated Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:29 pm to add the following --

Greta:
One challenge I am trying to deal with is translating the babble in my head into something short and readable. I am just a beginner here, and still at the "constantly stuffing up" stage.

If we can keep monologues down, and add para breaks that are appropriate to screen rather than print reading, then I think there will be more understanding. It's hard to express complex concepts without falling into tl:dr. Often people will pick "red flag" comments out of a post without the context because the jabber was too much for them.
Yes, I think one of the reasons I like this forum and have stuck with it (on and off) is that it's good for practicing that skill of taking the head-babble and trying to make it understandable, with a chance of being read.

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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by -1- » August 5th, 2017, 2:09 am

Steve3007 wrote:I've been meaning to ask this for a while: Are you related to -0+ ? Your names have a certain familial similarity. You vaguely seem like a particle and anti-particle that might annihilate on contact.
I don't believe -0+ and I are related, much like Salvador Dali and Muhammad Ali were not related.

But then again, how would I know? It could be my very own brother, except he does not know, either.

There is a dramatic story buried in this, that a resourceful fiction writer could exploit. Brothers, unknown to each other, save the world by interacting on an Internet forum. Or destroy the world, whatever.

I was impressed with -0+ greatly in the beginning, I had thought he or she had been reasonable, smart, and with good depth. I had researched his or her posts, first because I was pissed off that s/he copied my name's style. Later I re-interpreted his copying as a compliment form him or her to me. So then shortly after discovering his or her existence, I researched his or her posts, and found him/her quite smart, reasonable, and not insane.

His or her recent attacks on my posts (there has been a rash of those, or at least to me it seemed so) got me completely by surprize, on the defence, and quickly and unexpectedly. I never saw a post by him or her recently in which s/he has said something, other than to try to debunk my stance.

There are people like that on forums. Not just on this one. Who lie low, do nothing, but concentrate on one or another "successful" user -- take it any way you like, I don't mean i am better than anyone here, including myself, but I do go after to prove my points and defend them -- and when they see a weak post, they swoop down like an eagle and start to peck at them and carve their eyes and guts out with their beaks and talons. I have been the target of such "eagle" users on more than one forum more than one time.

I remember a forum on Craigslist in which I was taken apart by such a user, because I misspelled Horwitzer (as in guns) and called its... I still don't know what the proper naming is, its projectile particle "bullet". He chastised me completely, from head to toe, stating those guns don't have bullets, wtf was I talking about.

-0+ surprised me because his or her attack on my post that occurred last was a weak and feebly put together argument by him or her. And her or his major mistake was to come up with the same idea, same concept, same theory as mine, except calling mine wrong at the same time. I said his or her mistake, meaning by mistake to try to call me out; the mistake was not that he or she had the same opinion as I.

I am not sure now, but it's easy to check, who registered first with the names that we have. If I was the first, then s/he may have picked her or his name with the eventual complete annihilation of each other in sight, as you opined, Steven0007. If s/he was the first, then it's coincidence, as I got my name via completely independent considerations.

His or her moniker actually looks smarter than mine. His / hers resembles a point in the number line, inasmuch as to left of the zero are the negative, and to the right of the zero are the positive numbers. It may have semblance to +or- 0, meaning no tolerance, but it's not. (However, the "no tolerance" may be fitting.)

-- Updated 2017 August 5th, 2:17 am to add the following --

I joined in 2016, and -0+ joined in 2014. So maybe s/he has resentments for my copping his/her moniker. I did not; but the semblance is rightfully suspicious.
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Re: How can we deal with insane users of these forums

Post by Greta » August 5th, 2017, 4:18 am

-1- wrote:What kind of crappy username is -1-? I don't know, Greta. Google it.
No joy, alas.
-1- wrote:-1- is definitely not sexual, or scatological, or enticing evil. It is not sexist, racist, sadist, masochist, religionist, communist, existentialist, Marxist-Leninist, Darwinist, Dawkinist, post-modernist or Trotskiite.

I'll be damned if I could name its specific kind of crap.
You are correct. Nor is it bourgeois, homophobic, bestial or Nazi. Most commendable.

Is your username to be pronounced? "one" or "dash one dash"?

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