Trying Not To Offend People

Chat about anything your heart desires here, just be civil. Factual or scientific questions about philosophy go here (e.g. "When was Socrates born?"), and so most homework help questions belong here. Note, posts in the off-topic section will not increase new members post counts. This includes the introductions and feedback sections.
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TigerNinja
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Trying Not To Offend People

Post by TigerNinja » February 14th, 2018, 11:49 am

How ironic, the description of this area includes "Just be civil.". I find a problem with that. Consistently, whenever I try to portray an idea that's a bit out of the ordinary or radical, such as "What is the use of those who aren't intelligent or physically able enough to help society" (Find this specific discussion under General Philosophy as "What use to society are those which cannot aid it") always end up offending someone. I offend them, but the very nature of the idea is offensive. How on Earth am I meant to portray an offensive idea that has reasoning, that is not simply offensive for the sake of being so, without making people feel sad? What about in scenarios, whereby fact is clearly more powerful than emotions yet people are adamant that either the strength of their emotions or volume of their voice makes them correct? Just tell me your ideas on offending people, offensive ideas, and how to avoid offending people when that is in the nature of an argument without just tossing away a perfectly reasonable or logical argument.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer

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Vivek7
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by Vivek7 » February 14th, 2018, 12:10 pm

I often cannot help it. I will offend myself if I do not offend others or vice versa. When an argument commences I have to agree or disagree and if I choose to agree to the thing I have already disagreed there arises a problem and I am in that case offending myself. I must do justice to myself or else I may silently be conflicting with the person I have agreed with. This demands a great deal of meditation but we humans living in a city of hustle bustle try to comfort at our expenses it creates a mountain of pains.

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TigerNinja
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by TigerNinja » February 26th, 2018, 4:35 pm

Vivek7 wrote:
February 14th, 2018, 12:10 pm
I often cannot help it. I will offend myself if I do not offend others or vice versa. When an argument commences I have to agree or disagree and if I choose to agree to the thing I have already disagreed there arises a problem and I am in that case offending myself. I must do justice to myself or else I may silently be conflicting with the person I have agreed with. This demands a great deal of meditation but we humans living in a city of hustle bustle try to comfort at our expenses it creates a mountain of pains.
I agree, but the true struggles com into play whereby you are being controversial and struggling to say "Just hear me out, no matter how crazy and immoral and wildly insane my idea sounds, it's worth a listen." In acknowledging its abstract or 'out' nature, for lack of a better term, you have won and lost half the battle. You may win or lose in the battle, but who knows what will happen in the long term 'war of ideas'.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer

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ernestm
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by ernestm » March 5th, 2018, 1:33 pm

If people are offended, and you did not intend to hurt their feelings, it's not your problem. It's their's. )

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LuckyR
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by LuckyR » March 8th, 2018, 1:48 am

There is a big difference between espousing ideas that run counter to other's and thereby imply (yet not explicitly state) that their worldview is wrong on the one hand and resorting to infantile name-calling and insults on the other.
"As usual... it depends."

Lone Wolf
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by Lone Wolf » May 24th, 2018, 11:31 pm

To me the term "being civil" doesn't mean you won't offend people. It means that you do not insult or demean them because they have a different opinion of whatever subject is under discussion. For example, it is not being civil to tell someone they are intellectual midgets, stupid, ignorant, etc. simply because of a difference of opinion. Your opinion of their intellect is not for discussion if you wish to be civil.

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Brian5
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by Brian5 » June 5th, 2018, 5:26 pm

I was banned from facebook for a month and a day. I like to blame individual associates for my failing as a man. I'm OK and as an old man like retirement from the world of finance and sociology.

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Mark1955
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by Mark1955 » June 17th, 2018, 5:20 am

LuckyR wrote:
March 8th, 2018, 1:48 am
There is a big difference between espousing ideas that run counter to other's and thereby imply (yet not explicitly state) that their worldview is wrong on the one hand and resorting to infantile name-calling and insults on the other.
and the difference being that in the first case you're relying on the recipient having the intelligence to realise they are being insulted.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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Mark1955
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by Mark1955 » June 17th, 2018, 5:22 am

ernestm wrote:
March 5th, 2018, 1:33 pm
If people are offended, and you did not intend to hurt their feelings, it's not your problem. It's their's. )
So no penalty for manslaughter, just murder.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

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LuckyR
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by LuckyR » June 18th, 2018, 2:13 am

Mark1955 wrote:
June 17th, 2018, 5:20 am
LuckyR wrote:
March 8th, 2018, 1:48 am
There is a big difference between espousing ideas that run counter to other's and thereby imply (yet not explicitly state) that their worldview is wrong on the one hand and resorting to infantile name-calling and insults on the other.
and the difference being that in the first case you're relying on the recipient having the intelligence to realise they are being insulted.
While somewhat true, coming off like a middle schooler always makes one look childish to most with any life experience.
"As usual... it depends."

Karpel Tunnel
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by Karpel Tunnel » June 18th, 2018, 2:33 am

Mark1955 wrote:
June 17th, 2018, 5:20 am
LuckyR wrote:
March 8th, 2018, 1:48 am
There is a big difference between espousing ideas that run counter to other's and thereby imply (yet not explicitly state) that their worldview is wrong on the one hand and resorting to infantile name-calling and insults on the other.
and the difference being that in the first case you're relying on the recipient having the intelligence to realise they are being insulted.
So if someone disagrees with your you interpret this as an insult? IOW your interpretation of 'espousing ideas that run counter to other's' entails that it contains an insult. Subtle insults are not just present in a subset of cases, but all of them.

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Mark1955
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by Mark1955 » June 19th, 2018, 9:29 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 2:33 am
Mark1955 wrote:
June 17th, 2018, 5:20 am

and the difference being that in the first case you're relying on the recipient having the intelligence to realise they are being insulted.
So if someone disagrees with your [opinion] you interpret this as an insult?
No but I know a lot of people who do.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.

Karpel Tunnel
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by Karpel Tunnel » June 19th, 2018, 1:31 pm

Mark1955 wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 9:29 am
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
June 18th, 2018, 2:33 am


So if someone disagrees with your [opinion] you interpret this as an insult?
No but I know a lot of people who do.
Hm.
Lucky R wrote:
There is a big difference between espousing ideas that run counter to other'st and thereby imply (yet not explicitly state) that their worldview is wrong on the one hand and resorting to infantile name-calling and insults on the other.
Two possible approaches are described: 1) one is espousing ideas that run counter the other person's ideas which imply that their worldview is wrong and 2) one where there is name calling and insults.

You wrote, it seemed to me, as if in both cases there is an insult, but in the first case it is implied.

IOW if you challenge someone's worldview it is an insult.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by ThomasHobbes » June 19th, 2018, 1:49 pm

TigerNinja wrote:
February 14th, 2018, 11:49 am
How ironic, the description of this area includes "Just be civil.".
It is interesting to note that this advice is primarily directed to people who are misfortunate to have to live in towns.
The etymology of civil, like civilisation refers to the Latin civitas. When people are crammed together they have a tendency to behave like dickheads to one another, and so we have had to evolve moral mechanisms which suggest we stfu and keep ourselves to ourselves. Being civilized is learning to bite off that anger.
In overcrowded Japan they have this skill down to a tee and tend to be very closed off "inscrutable".
In the USA where a multitude of cultures, urban and country have been thrust together they have resorted to shooting each other.

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LuckyR
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Re: Trying Not To Offend People

Post by LuckyR » June 19th, 2018, 4:01 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
June 19th, 2018, 1:31 pm
Lucky R wrote:
There is a big difference between espousing ideas that run counter to other'st and thereby imply (yet not explicitly state) that their worldview is wrong on the one hand and resorting to infantile name-calling and insults on the other.
Two possible approaches are described: 1) one is espousing ideas that run counter the other person's ideas which imply that their worldview is wrong and 2) one where there is name calling and insults.

You wrote, it seemed to me, as if in both cases there is an insult, but in the first case it is implied.

IOW if you challenge someone's worldview it is an insult.
No, the exact opposite. One is a healthy airing of differences, which aught not lead to "offending people". Yet it does. More and more often all the time. This is in part because of the capitulation of right and wrong, in favor of the confusion of "everyone has merit (as a human)" to "everyone's opinion has merit".
"As usual... it depends."

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