Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

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FerrumIntellectus
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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by FerrumIntellectus » October 20th, 2013, 12:06 pm

I'll be waiting to see our debate I am assuming in the Philosopher's Lounge. Take all the time you need, I am not going anywhere. I was ready for this after my first loss. On your mark my friend.
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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Greatest I Was » October 20th, 2013, 8:35 pm

Spiral Out wrote:
Let's be honest here. Are you really seeking truth, or just providing us with your own personal subjective flavor of truth?
Truth isn't a phantom in the midst, Spiral Out. The world is perfect in the sense that everything works the way it does for as long as the universe remains. A lot of people are too busy using their observation kit to make the world a place that makes them feel comfortable with it, such as yourself, however much wiser people such as myself know there is much more than a bubble of our own shadowy charms. The world reacts to our actions whether they good or bad. The world, not myself or you or they. The universe is the gauge that will lead us to the real truth. Inorder to successfully discover such a truth, you have to forget everything you thought was, and start accepting what is externally and internally. The more you venture into the mouth of truth, the more this world makes sense, the more you feel less of a person and a product of the universe while consequences cease on your side. I can handle any circumstance that approaches me, Spiral Out. I guarantee you that subjectivity is not the reason why I have such formidable power over the contentions that come from consequential actions which are always going to happen when you are subjectively thinking for yourself and not objectively thinking about the world. When will you realize the world is the primal artifact of all that is existence? We are nothing but products of a much greater system, but because we are a part of that system and everything we do and say uses the system's actual mechanisms, it would be idiotic of anyone to be the system, but not live the system by creating this false system that is distinctively phantom. It's funny, Spiral Out. You create phantoms, while avoiding truth because you think it's a phantom when you are the phantom and the world is the machine. Let me say this one more time. We are ghosts in the machine.
Tell me, what good is a game without rules? Anyone can win a game that has no rules. All they must do is simply claim that they've won. Anyone with a mouth can spout off their thoughts in uncontrolled and unstructured rants, but it is those who can do the same within a specified set of rules who have the real skill.

The world has rules, no matter what we say and do. You don't seem to comprehend this. This world is consequential and has its own rules. I follow only those rules. I do not create my own. I go where consequences cease. If consequences follow, I am further away from the truth. If consequences cease, then I know the truth is closer because the world's truth is based off of doing what mutually benefits everything. You keep resorting to what you want, and that is why you will always lose this debate. When will you realize that I am a product that is aware of its product qualities in this world, and to challenge me is no different than challenging yourself, Spiral Out. I'm a shadow, a ghost, a nobody. Everything I do is a ploy for others. Deep down, I just want to be honest about how the world works and reacts, but I cannot in this world, so I am forced to play the fake for others to communicate with them. When I speak to people in real life, I don't see bodies. I see information and nothing more. You don't comprehend any of this, and this is why you are resorting to nonsense like if we don't set rules there are no rules. Keep telling yourself that when you decide to wrestle with a 1000 pound boulder that has not much left holding it in place and end up infront of the boulder. Or how about mowing the law on wet grass? Or how about driving on the ice? None of this has anything to do with what we think will happen out there. Everything happens because the world has its own rules, and I know these rules better than everyone.

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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Spiral Out » October 20th, 2013, 10:06 pm

And yet another senseless rant. You're hopelessly stuck in your own nightmare of subjective truths, and self-imposed mistruths, as we all are. Good luck to you.
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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Greatest I Was » October 20th, 2013, 10:36 pm

Spiral Out wrote:And yet another senseless rant. You're hopelessly stuck in your own nightmare of subjective truths, and self-imposed mistruths, as we all are. Good luck to you.
I escaped from it. I don't trust my feelings, I understand them. Something you will never understand as long as you think there is a cheese at the end of this maze we start in. Climb over the walls, and you will see the world that made the cheese, the maze and yourself. You will then realize that you are no longer trapped in a subjective system, but an objective one. So it goes like this, Spiral Out.

Subjective System > Escapes > Objective System

Subjective System > Imprisoned > Subjective System

You are only going in circles, Spiral Out. When I go into your maze, you squeek at me and wish to gnaw at me with the very subjective feelings that imprison you and keep you from seeing the truth beyond the maze's walls.

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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Spiral Out » October 21st, 2013, 9:42 am

Conflict is a prime example of the subjective nature of our existence. Every post you make reinforces my position. If things were as objective as you claim then conflict would be nonexistent.

Your childish signature and your silly name-calling clearly demonstrate your level of intellect.

Your signature: "Sometimes when I'm wearing a T-Shirt, I like to lie down on my back while masturbating, with my head cocked to the side, and my head resting on my shoulder blade, so I look like I have no arms and it was someone else playing with my cock."

Is that what "ghosts in the machine" do? How objective is something like that?
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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Logic_ill » October 21st, 2013, 10:20 am

I'll step in or intrude to back up spiral out. I don't always agree with him, but he has many sensible ideas. That misinterpretation by Greatest I was of Spiral Out's posts on what is existence proves the former's hostility. I enjoy reading Greatest I was or naughtarious or Dirty Universe, but I also think Spiral Out is a good thinker.

I'm yet trying to understand his point on existence completely. I think Spiral Out is trying to say that in not knowing absolute truth or absolutely everything, we cannot make accurate assertions and that renders humans as subjective beings.

If this is the case, I agree with Spiral Out, but it doesn't matter to me that we are subjective beings because it seems we will be so, no matter what we do. My take on this is to simply try to figure things out in human terms and explain as best we can, whatever we can to ourselves, and put that knowledge to good use. I mean that it should benefit mankind.

One of Spiral Out's greatest qualities is his organization. He seems to have an ordered mind and that reflects in his writing. I hope I don't make him blush as I did Theophane some time ago. ;) It's my nature to seek out people's strong points.

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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Spiral Out » October 21st, 2013, 12:59 pm

Thanks Logic_ill. I very much appreciate your support.

My explanations to Misty of my thoughts on existence have failed both of us. I will post a better explanation as soon as I can come up with one. It's not an easy concept for me to describe.

Thanks again.
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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Greatest I Was » October 21st, 2013, 9:53 pm

Spiral Out wrote:Conflict is a prime example of the subjective nature of our existence. Every post you make reinforces my position. If things were as objective as you claim then conflict would be nonexistent.

Your childish signature and your silly name-calling clearly demonstrate your level of intellect.

Your signature: "Sometimes when I'm wearing a T-Shirt, I like to lie down on my back while masturbating, with my head cocked to the side, and my head resting on my shoulder blade, so I look like I have no arms and it was someone else playing with my cock."

Is that what "ghosts in the machine" do? How objective is something like that?
Now I get to turn around - and this time - accurately state "sorry kid" you do not understand my discussion - in fact, you are so confined by your own false epistemological fallacies that you refuse to see that I have stated, in a deeper form, what Logic-Ill said. I will even tie everything from his post to my post to demonstrate that I do have you figured out through and through. You simply do not want to accept it, because you would much rather someone figure you out through and through that agrees with you - but if this were the case, the fonder would be a massive crock of lies! It's impossible to agree with you because you limit human potential and ignore the tools we have that do work with the objective systems of nature and this is why science is beyond any conjecture, theory or concept. Science doesn't come from us, it comes from the world based on us creating a language to communicate how the world works. We do not only name nature, we know how nature works. We also know how humans works. Do you not comprehend the sheer potential we have to psychologically break down the person but not know the person and philosophically break down the world and not know the world? Do you have ANY COMPREHENSION? Because you did not catch my purposeful childish red flags to begin with! You clearly are too self-destructive to actually think clearly when the bloody discussion involves your own precious mental children. Guess what, your mental children are autistic. They are not special in a good way this time around. You are a great thinker, but like everyone that has to face themsleves, everything you do and say never ever relates to your non-self thinking. It's absolutely ludicrous that someone that thinks greater outside of themselves can still be an extremely stupid thought-mangler and cry subjectivity! You are a burning crock of self-delusion, but since self-delusion only involves the self, you are very wise when it comes to non-personal subjects. I am sick and tired of coming across great thinkers that stop everything that is reason and logic and thought and sense and axiom and productive for this subjective horse shenanigans!

And by the way, my signature is not childish because the perspective that it contains it beyond any angsty teenager brat that thinks they have the world figured out. It's witty and clever. You are simply projecting your personal spite through my signature because You. Are. The. Child. Why else must you de-maturity me? It's quite clear that you are feeling less mature than I am deep down behind that denial and descontructivism!

Furthermore I am one of the most mature minds you will ever have the luck to come across in your life! I work hard on my music, and someone votes 0 because they have nothing else better to do with their life, I do not throw a fit, I reflect on things like this and I let reality sit on my face! Unlike you, I do not wrap myself with my feelings and desires, I face the world's cold surface and I lie myself naked upon this nameless surface and I swim and make no-angels with my body to further stress how much of a nobody I am and how much passion and intuition I have locked away deep within me. Do not test me, Spiral Out. Test yourself! For the sake of any productivity!
Last edited by Greatest I Was on October 21st, 2013, 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Spiral Out » October 21st, 2013, 10:04 pm

Do you fear subjectivity because it isolates you from others? Do you try to find some sense of objective commonality in order to feel some type of communion with the rest of Humanity?

You seem a bit too adverse to subjectivity for it to be anything less than an ultimately personal aspect of your history.

I readily acknowledge the potential for an objective environment, but I have good reason to assert the subjective over the objective. I don't understand why you put so much faith in the so-called "objective" realm when it's fundamentally out of your reach.

And why do you feel you must devalue me by altering my username to ridiculous terms?
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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Greatest I Was » October 21st, 2013, 10:18 pm

Spiral Out wrote:Do you fear subjectivity because it isolates you from others? Do you try to find some sense of objective commonality in order to feel some type of communion with the rest of Humanity?

You seem a bit too adverse to subjectivity for it to be anything less than an ultimately personal aspect of your history.

I readily acknowledge the potential for an objective environment, but I have good reason to assert the subjective over the objective. I don't understand why you put so much faith in the so-called "objective" realm when it's fundamentally out of your reach.

And why do you feel you must devalue me by altering my username to ridiculous terms?
Do I fear subjectivity because of isolation? No! Subjectivity is what brings people together based on lies and mutual illusions! If I feared isolation, I wouldn't be tearing away at what makes us human for the sake of truth and nothing but the truth - while at the same time, acknowledging what could challenge my own thoughts! I do question whether or not we should question ourselves and reverse-engineer our human qualities or embrace the child we are, but that does not stop me from loving the child in me and dualistically tearing that child apart!

I was purposely acting childish to reflect off of your assertions of my character without any argument to back any of it up. So I played as you perceived me like the shadowy roleplayer that I have built myself diligently to successfully become; the very thing people run away from because they are not consciously aware enough to have lucid dreams and figure themselves out with their own thinking! You are the one that devalues me! You think this is all that I am? There is much more to my character that even I seldomly have the moment to experience! My passion and intuition runs so deep, that it goes beyond my feelings and emotions and roots itself into the tools that break down people and the world systematically, but not structurally - and mind you, your subjective antics are counter-productive. Every "subjective" thought is placed under an objective light because I am trying to demonstrate that we are objectivists in our minds and subjectivists at heart. You onyl deny such a powerful statement because you know it's true. Where's your argument? Making this about me and making false assumptions of my character is not an argument! Where is your argument? While you cover yourself in subjective flatulence, Science will remain shaping this world whether you accept the objective system it is or not. It doesn't matter how you perceive objectivism. As long as you expect people to name this planet, and discount everything we have discovered with our ability to scientifically examine the world, you are never going to understand your self-delusion!

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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Jklint » October 22nd, 2013, 3:01 am

Greatest I Was wrote:
...Science will remain shaping this world whether you accept the objective system it is or not. It doesn't matter how you perceive objectivism. As long as you expect people to name this planet, and discount everything we have discovered with our ability to scientifically examine the world, you are never going to understand your self-delusion!
So true but also a tricky business being a condition which persists until self delusion which only breeds more of the same begins to question itself. A single impurity not previously noticed sneaks into the rear of the psyche and begins to crack its distorting inverted images from within and voila a new Weltanschauung commences not yet totally devoid of illusion which remains a necessary ingredient to understand the nature of what we term reality, namely those anonymous superabundant energies existing within what seems delimited by law and virtually frozen by it.

Going backwards reality seems to disintegrate, to discharge itself into nothing at all; it is that Nothing which science seeks to discover and name into Something and everything subsequent which coalesces into a reality from that incipience. Give it a name and a reason. Or as J.S. Bach once responded to a pupil who was astounded by his technique. "Not a problem! Just hit the right notes at the right time!" It's by the number of right notes we hit that WE measure our success in creating the right metaphors by with to replay the reality track back to the point where it was Nothing yet created everything in its wake.

Happy to make myself incomprehensible once again! :?

BTW, Isn't "Greater I was" something of a misnomer? Being resurrected should make you greater than you were. Your speech seems more chromatic a la Nietzsche. You now seem more prone to offer toxic snuff as an insult to adversaries instead of crushing them with boulders. Your style seems much more refined. I like it. Shouldn't you now call yourself "Greater I Be" instead of "I was"?

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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Greatest I Was » October 22nd, 2013, 8:23 am

Jklint wrote:
So true but also a tricky business being a condition which persists until self delusion which only breeds more of the same begins to question itself. A single impurity not previously noticed sneaks into the rear of the psyche and begins to crack its distorting inverted images from within and voila a new Weltanschauung commences not yet totally devoid of illusion which remains a necessary ingredient to understand the nature of what we term reality, namely those anonymous superabundant energies existing within what seems delimited by law and virtually frozen by it.
Here's how I explained this to my wolf princess; the things we do influence the world. When we do good, our influences do not hold consequences or less consequence than any other action. When we do bad, our influences hold consequences. Now imagine how limited we are and prone we are in making mistakes on a daily basis. This would be similar to one person throwing a stone into this ocean before us - now, imagine 8,000,000,000 stones be tossed into the ocean, and how distorted the surface may become then. The universe is one massive, yet dualistic, spacial complex of cosmological orchestra. The things we do, and don't do, cause vibrations throughout the world similar to the ripples of a pond. If you ever looked at my thread "Mind Sentience", I do have a theory that calls forth the notion which space and oceans are one in the same, but symbolically different. If this is true, then everything we do truly creates ripples whether it be in space, or in the ocean. The entire system is reactive, so when we make stupid reactions, the system ends up with stupid consequences.
Going backwards reality seems to disintegrate, to discharge itself into nothing at all; it is that Nothing which science seeks to discover and name into Something and everything subsequent which coalesces into a reality from that incipience. Give it a name and a reason. Or as J.S. Bach once responded to a pupil who was astounded by his technique. "Not a problem! Just hit the right notes at the right time!" It's by the number of right notes we hit that WE measure our success in creating the right metaphors by with to replay the reality track back to the point where it was Nothing yet created everything in its wake.
When we hit the right notes, the ocean stays calm, but when we screw with the ocean too much, which we do on a daily basis, chaos ensues. Imagine if the 8,000,000,000 actually took their self-awareness to a responsible level and we looked more harmonized and coherent as an off-set orchestra. Here's an important note, like existence, we cannot call something "nothing" because of what we are able to limitly perceive. We either have something that can be anchored down objectively, or we are in layman's terms, a fool. And giving it a name does NOT make it "something". Labels do not involve the apparatuses that are observation, analysis, assessment, demonstration and objective/subjective (it atleast has to have occam's razor exercized) theories that can only be tied down with objective laws which function and exist with or without our own wonderings.
BTW, Isn't "Greater I was" something of a misnomer? Being resurrected should make you greater than you were. Your speech seems more chromatic a la Nietzsche. You now seem more prone to offer toxic snuff as an insult to adversaries instead of crushing them with boulders. Your style seems much more refined. I like it. Shouldn't you now call yourself "Greater I Be" instead of "I was"?
It's a double-edged misnomer, as in it's a misnomer in one perspective, but doubly-so, it's also a message in another perspective. The word "greater" is a sarcastic one, because I am a nobody that does not rest on power created by myself, but the power of the universe and how everything without one or the other would cast the universe into certain doom. When I say that I was "greater", I am implying the fleet of ego. The ego is not about being great, it's about assumed identity. The fact that the ego only is concerned with itself, it is a logical fallacy to the world. I do not agree with what people think of the ego - I think the ego is a blackhole that excuses itself and rationalizes itself through and through. It is not a toy, in fact, it's one of the most destructive forces in the entirety of this world, for it destroys perspective and it leads what is otherwise intelligence into inconspicuous damnation along with itself.

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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Spiral Out » October 22nd, 2013, 6:54 pm

Greatest I Was wrote:...you are never going to understand your self-delusion!
Or you yours. When you are aware enough to realize that you have only your own subjective perception to rely on, then you'll not be so quick to accuse others of delusion.

Can you prove that you're not the one who's deluded? To what objective reference will you measure your level of knowing?

The insane are in fact sane relative to their own sense of reality. Who's to say you're not one of them? Can you prove your sanity relative to some other potential "objective" world?
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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Greatest I Was » October 23rd, 2013, 1:18 am

Spiral Out wrote:
Or you yours. When you are aware enough to realize that you have only your own subjective perception to rely on, then you'll not be so quick to accuse others of delusion.

Can you prove that you're not the one who's deluded? To what objective reference will you measure your level of knowing?

The insane are in fact sane relative to their own sense of reality. Who's to say you're not one of them? Can you prove your sanity relative to some other potential "objective" world?

And this is why my passion burns greater than all of our futures combined! You, of all people, having one of the most admirable NON-PERSONAL processes of thinking on here, are refusing to understand how ludicrous and out-dated subjectivity is!

If you can question subjectivity, then we are already well on our way in LEAVING SUBJECTIVITY. If we can question our sanity, it leads us into insanity. If we question our morals, we end up in immorality! If we question ourselves, there is nobody to question! We can break out of one dualistic part of the system into another because of the way the two systems are different from each other. All it takes for us to do is out-think the system by SYSTEMATICALLY questioning it, and not STRUCTURALLY or asking WHY. We need to ask HOW, and that's when we gain something over the system. A gain that you refuse the existence of! It's called INVERSIONISM.

Subjectivity is subjectively a truth, but objectively a lie! Just because we all see the same bloody cloud at the end of the day, doesn't mean we are living in different worlds that involve different rules. We are still sharing this objective world where natural laws thwart everything we try to be. Consequences follow our actions for the world is one massive orchestra and we are the OFF-SET orchestra. You should go to my Mind Sentience thread and make up more excuses for me there, because I blow your subjectivity out of the damned water in that thread where I am free to my own mind and I do not have to be bloody distracted by all of this shameful thinking! The brain doesn't deserve such naivity!

Guess what, Spiral Out. You got it backwards! I am insane. We are all insane (which is why we can easily kills ourselves with the wrong curiosity in-part as a child). I was raised by insanity. I questioned my sanity, and I watched how other people created their own bubbles of sanity. Insanity is the true sanity, for it's the actual mind at work, but takes a hell a lot more responsibility to work with because if you do not know your virtues you may end up killing people or other "things", like when I was at my primitive stage in life, with no control over my emotions or anything about life, I ended up killing my cat by stomping on it 3 times; it dies a few months later. Nothing in life ever taught me, until I created a consequence. A consequence and the shadow in my dream have raised me through and through! Insanity is NOT free from subjective crap, however. All it does is promote absolute freedom from anything that imprisoned us as long as we acknowledge that freedom. This is why insane people are bloody brilliant more than half of the time, but they always think they are held back by some monster they created and forgot about. I am somewhat of a master of chaos! I understand the monster and what people are capable of more than anyone - for now. I also know what subjectivity does to people, and how it originates. I can take the most simplest step by comparing the productivity of a child to an adult, or a child-like adult to an adult. When will you understand that subjectivity is when you do not have the responbility to worry about the woes of nature? When you grow out of your child-like mind, subjectivity is no longer useful! All it does is encourage ignorance and lies!

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Re: Dirty Universe/Naughtorious

Post by Spiral Out » October 23rd, 2013, 10:30 pm

Greatest I Was wrote:When you grow out of your child-like mind, subjectivity is no longer useful! All it does is encourage ignorance and lies!
You've not sufficiently demonstrated how subjective thought would "encourage ignorance and lies" or how you could reasonably gauge this against some mysterious objective reference.

So far all I see in your posts are subjective assertions, which are fine in themselves, but you're treating them as objectively founded principles. You'll have to justify any claimed objective qualities of your assertions with some kind of "scientific proof".
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