[Inappropriate Complaint]

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Okisites
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[Inappropriate Complaint]

Post by Okisites »

Okay the question is for Scott Sir, (and everybody instead of Spiral Out )

I have noticed in the thread called "Why are there so few Nihilist", that something non-justifiable is going on, as to me it seems that the moderator "Spiral Out" had locked the topic because he is losing the grounds. And I do not see any other logic to lock this thread. If any moderator or administrator or contributor can come forward for the defense of this act of locking a thread, with some logical explanation, then I will accept it to be justifiable. Otherwise, it is clear misuse of power. And it is not good for the forum, I believe.

So I would like everybody to express their views about it, and if I am wrong, then express your view about my perception of it.

The thread is here, where it is locked :-

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... 20#p211516

What is justification for this, by the moderators other than "Spiral Out".

At last I will ask for forgiveness for Spiral Out.
Last edited by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes on August 28th, 2014, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: change title
Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong.” ― Thomas Fuller
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Spiral Out
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Re:

Post by Spiral Out »

Thanks for your feedback, Okisites. I appreciate the honest critique.

I locked the topic in question in order to clean up the thread by removing off-topic personal attacks and in accordance with the forum rules. I only deleted the off-topic rule-breaking portions of the posts in question even though I could have deleted the entire post in accordance with the forum rules.

I am routinely accused of "abusing my moderator status" even when I'm merely arguing my philosophical position on any given topic as was the case in the thread in question. I have removed the off-topic portions of those posts only. I believe that was more than fair. Also, I only rarely issue warnings, and I did not issue any warnings in this case even though I could have in accordance with the forum rules.

As a moderator, everything I do in that capacity is logged and is available for review by the site administrator. I have never abused my moderator status and I don't plan to at any point. There's simply no reason for me to do so.

Everything I've done in my duties as moderator has been in accordance with the forum rules. I'm not perfect but I do my best to maintain consistency in adhering to the rules myself and holding others to those rules.

I will welcome the feedback of the other forum members, moderators and the site admin.
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Misty
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Re:

Post by Misty »

Okisites wrote:
Okisites wrote:Okay the question is for Scott Sir, (and everybody instead of Spiral Out )

I have noticed in the thread called "Why are there so few Nihilist", that something non-justifiable is going on, as to me it seems that the moderator "Spiral Out" had locked the topic because he is losing the grounds. And I do not see any other logic to lock this thread. If any moderator or administrator or contributor can come forward for the defense of this act of locking a thread, with some logical explanation, then I will accept it to be justifiable. Otherwise, it is clear misuse of power. And it is not good for the forum, I believe.

So I would like everybody to express their views about it, and if I am wrong, then express your view about my perception of it.

The thread is here, where it is locked :-

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... 20#p211516

What is justification for this, by the moderators other than "Spiral Out".

At last I will ask for forgiveness for Spiral Out.
Okisites, You are completely right, and, Spiral did not monitor and delete his rule breakers on this topic. Also my link to the real meaning of nihilism on link http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism was disabled. Why? I guess the truth hurts some people. Misty
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

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Spiral Out
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Re:

Post by Spiral Out »

Misty wrote:Spiral, Is this the only way you can win a debate?
I deleted only off-topic insults and personal attacks, nothing more. (FYI: the above is yet another personal attack (ad hom) in suggesting that I'm somehow abusing my moderator status) My arguments stand firmly on their own based on logic and reason.
Misty wrote:You "monitored me and Newme (even deleted her agreeing with me)
Her "agreement" with you was simply yet another personal attack contrary to rule A, specifically the rule to "Please keep discussion focused on the issues of the specific topics, and not on the character of those discussing the issues."
Misty wrote:When did it become OK for you to tell others to "read" something?
It is not, and has never been, against the forum rules to suggest that someone review the OP for clarification.
Misty wrote:You also disabled my link to the meaning of nihilism.
That's quite an absurd claim. I have no such ability.
Misty wrote:Just because YOU disagree with my interpretation and proof of nihilism, one that made you look bad, you delete it.
I did not delete any definition of nihilism that you had posted. I only deleted off-topic personal attacks.
Misty wrote:Spiral did not monitor and delete his rule breakers on this topic.
If you believe that I broke the forum rules then you should report it. I do not interfere with reports against me. The site admin handles those, and I have the warnings to prove it.

Out of fairness, I also did not delete your off-topic post (#86) in that thread that obviously is contrary to the rule that states: "Do not tell others they are violating the forum rules and especially do not quote rule-breaking posts. Simply use the report button (the exclamation point on the upper-right-hand side of the post you wish to report) to report the post and then ignore the reported post until a moderator closes the report or deletes the reported post."

I've sent a message to the site administrator to stop these false and irresponsible accusations. I will not stand for it.

**Note: Misty had posted the above statements and had then edited out some of her statements during the process of my responding to it (lest I now be accused of fabricating statements).
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Misty
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Re:

Post by Misty »

Spiral Out wrote:
Misty wrote:Spiral, Is this the only way you can win a debate?
I deleted only off-topic insults and personal attacks, nothing more. (FYI: the above is yet another personal attack (ad hom) in suggesting that I'm somehow abusing my moderator status) My arguments stand firmly on their own based on logic and reason.
Misty wrote:You "monitored me and Newme (even deleted her agreeing with me)
Her "agreement" with you was simply yet another personal attack contrary to rule A, specifically the rule to "Please keep discussion focused on the issues of the specific topics, and not on the character of those discussing the issues."
Misty wrote:When did it become OK for you to tell others to "read" something?
It is not, and has never been, against the forum rules to suggest that someone review the OP for clarification.
Misty wrote:You also disabled my link to the meaning of nihilism.
That's quite an absurd claim. I have no such ability.
Misty wrote:Just because YOU disagree with my interpretation and proof of nihilism, one that made you look bad, you delete it.
I did not delete any definition of nihilism that you had posted. I only deleted off-topic personal attacks.
Misty wrote:Spiral did not monitor and delete his rule breakers on this topic.
If you believe that I broke the forum rules then you should report it. I do not interfere with reports against me. The site admin handles those, and I have the warnings to prove it.

Out of fairness, I also did not delete your off-topic post (#86) in that thread that obviously is contrary to the rule that states: "Do not tell others they are violating the forum rules and especially do not quote rule-breaking posts. Simply use the report button (the exclamation point on the upper-right-hand side of the post you wish to report) to report the post and then ignore the reported post until a moderator closes the report or deletes the reported post."

I've sent a message to the site administrator to stop these false and irresponsible accusations. I will not stand for it.

**Note: Misty had posted the above statements and had then edited out some of her statements during the process of my responding to it.
Spiral Out, The above sentence does not make sense to me. What statements? If I did edit my post is that against the rules? If I did edit my post while you were responding, how was I to know you were responding? Does one have the right to edit ones post? To change ones mind? To edit for the purpose of being more clear or for any reason? I am baffled, Spiral.

When I logged onto PC today and tried to read my link http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism (several times) it came back as" not provided by this server." I thought it was disabled. Sometime later I tried it again and it worked. I am sorry if that hurt you Spiral Out, but it upset me. Misunderstandings are human and I don't think there is a person on this website that does not misunderstand or is misunderstood or that makes mistakes.
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
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Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Re:

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Okisites wrote:Okay the question is for Scott Sir, (and everybody instead of Spiral Out )

I have noticed in the thread called "Why are there so few Nihilist", that something non-justifiable is going on, as to me it seems that the moderator "Spiral Out" had locked the topic because he is losing the grounds. And I do not see any other logic to lock this thread. If any moderator or administrator or contributor can come forward for the defense of this act of locking a thread, with some logical explanation, then I will accept it to be justifiable. Otherwise, it is clear misuse of power. And it is not good for the forum, I believe.

So I would like everybody to express their views about it, and if I am wrong, then express your view about my perception of it.

The thread is here, where it is locked :-

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... 20#p211516

What is justification for this, by the moderators other than "Spiral Out".

At last I will ask for forgiveness for Spiral Out.
This complaint is inappropriate.

If you have an issue with a moderator's decision to edit or delete your post, or to close a report without action on a post you think should have been edited or deleted, please post the exact content in question and I will determine whether or not I think it is rule-breaking and why or why not. The same goes if you disagree with my action; I will allow you to post about that particular action and we can discuss whether or not the exact post in question violated the forum rules or not.

I will NOT stand for broad complaints about a moderator, let alone personal attacks, to be expressed publicly for a variety of reasons.

You complain that the moderator in question locked a topic for moderation. That is standard procedure. I do it myself. It can take a lot of time to read through an entire topic and delete the rule-breaking posts, and while that is being done the topic often needs to be locked to prevent further rule-breaking posts being tacked onto a derailed topic. If you want to complain about the action, it isn't the locking that is in question but rather something specific that was deleted from the topic that you think was not rule-breaking and should have not have been deleted. You have not provided such a complaint.
Misty wrote:Also my link to the real meaning of nihilism on link http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism was disabled.
Frankly, that's ridiculous. The link does not go to a working webpage (which may mean the administrators of that website deleted the page to which you are trying to link) or you copied the URL wrong. When I enter the URL in my browser, it returns a custom 404 message from the website in question. There is no way this website could cause that site to return a 404 error on that particular folder of their site. We cannot make a webpage on a different site not work. Spiral Out is a volunteer moderator and does a lot of work to help these forums. Please use more restraint before accusing him of such a thing--a request I am making to you kindly. At the very least, you could have asked, Spiral out, did you disable my link rather than just say he did it as if it is fact. More to the point, now I am asking you, did Spiral Out tell you he disabled your link? What made you think Spiral Out disabled your link so confidently that you went and publicly accused him of it as if it was fact not even merely a suspicion?
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Okisites
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Re: Re:

Post by Okisites »

Scott wrote:
Okisites wrote:Okay the question is for Scott Sir, (and everybody instead of Spiral Out )

I have noticed in the thread called "Why are there so few Nihilist", that something non-justifiable is going on, as to me it seems that the moderator "Spiral Out" had locked the topic because he is losing the grounds. And I do not see any other logic to lock this thread. If any moderator or administrator or contributor can come forward for the defense of this act of locking a thread, with some logical explanation, then I will accept it to be justifiable. Otherwise, it is clear misuse of power. And it is not good for the forum, I believe.

So I would like everybody to express their views about it, and if I am wrong, then express your view about my perception of it.

The thread is here, where it is locked :-

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... 20#p211516

What is justification for this, by the moderators other than "Spiral Out".

At last I will ask for forgiveness for Spiral Out.
This complaint is inappropriate.

If you have an issue with a moderator's decision to edit or delete your post, or to close a report without action on a post you think should have been edited or deleted, please post the exact content in question and I will determine whether or not I think it is rule-breaking and why or why not. The same goes if you disagree with my action; I will allow you to post about that particular action and we can discuss whether or not the exact post in question violated the forum rules or not.

I will NOT stand for broad complaints about a moderator, let alone personal attacks, to be expressed publicly for a variety of reasons.

You complain that the moderator in question locked a topic for moderation. That is standard procedure. I do it myself. It can take a lot of time to read through an entire topic and delete the rule-breaking posts, and while that is being done the topic often needs to be locked to prevent further rule-breaking posts being tacked onto a derailed topic. If you want to complain about the action, it isn't the locking that is in question but rather something specific that was deleted from the topic that you think was not rule-breaking and should have not have been deleted. You have not provided such a complaint.
I think I made a mistake by reacting too fast to locking of thread, by seeing locked for moderation. I am sorry for that. I thought it is permanently locked as you sometimes locked a thread for quite a long time, which seemed to me as it is permanently locked. And you did so when there was extreme cases of frequent rule breaking and irrelevant posts, and not in general cases. I think you do ignore minor cases of rule breaking posts. I think this is the right way to simultaneously allow freedom, as well as place restrictions. I think being very scrupulous with rules, can hinder the freedom of expression with speech, as humans with emotions do. Humans talks in wrong way, and they needed to be given a freedom to do so, such that we can know their questions, otherwise we cannot know the questions that general people are concerned, that means we cannot answer their doubts, successfully. So being scrupulous is not a good thing, IMO.

Secondly imagine about you yourself participating in the thread, and pointing and deleting the allegations and ad hominem against you (made by others not willingly, but with ignorance), by yourself. Does that will look justified Sir? Especially when you do not seems to be concerned about similar things happening in other threads, in which you are not participating? I don’t think it will look justified, and I perfectly know that you cannot do this very same thing. I think this is the crux of the arousal of the feeling that something not justifiable is going on.

And I certainly know that being very scrupulous about rules will hamper the freedom of speech, and thereby hampering the understanding of the question at hand. So I will not support any actions in this direction, which is neither good for the speaker nor the listener, nor it is good for everybody as a whole.

I do not have any problem with deletion of posts, as you had done once with my post in the thread named “What is thinking”, claiming it to be not understandable or grammatical mistake or something alike.

I am sorry to pass the judgement too fast.

Thank you, Okisites.
Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong.” ― Thomas Fuller
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Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
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Re: [Inappropriate Complaint]

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

I appreciate your response.
Secondly imagine about you yourself participating in the thread, and pointing and deleting the allegations and ad hominem against you (made by others not willingly, but with ignorance), by yourself. Does that will look justified Sir? Especially when you do not seems to be concerned about similar things happening in other threads, in which you are not participating? I don’t think it will look justified, and I perfectly know that you cannot do this very same thing. I think this is the crux of the arousal of the feeling that something not justifiable is going on.
I would agree IF--and this is a big if--the posts containing the "similar things happening in other threads" had been reported. IF the moderator's actions in dealing with those reports was not consistent with actions in the other topic (e.g. closing a report without deleting a post that contains the same rule-breaking for which the moderator noticed in a post that he did delete in a topic he was participating in and/or that happened to be directed at him), then there is a valid complaint to be made using the newly explained Procedure for Complaining about Moderator Actions, either in regard to the moderator incorrectly dealing with the report or the moderator incorrectly deleting the post in the topic noticed. However, IF he posts containing the "similar things happening in other threads" have NOT been reported, then such a complaint is unfair and ludacris. Of course the moderator notices rule-breaking in topics he happens to be reading and/or participating in while using the forum as a typical member does, but doesn't always happen to stumble upon the rule-breaking posts by chance in other topics in which he is not participating.
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Okisites
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Re: [Inappropriate Complaint]

Post by Okisites »

Scott wrote: Of course the moderator notices rule-breaking in topics he happens to be reading and/or participating in while using the forum as a typical member does, but doesn't always happen to stumble upon the rule-breaking posts by chance in other topics in which he is not participating.
I agree to all of you what you said, especially the above one.

But what about the Judge judging the case against himself? :lol:

Sorry if you didn;t liked the question
Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong.” ― Thomas Fuller
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Spiral Out
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Re: [Inappropriate Complaint]

Post by Spiral Out »

Okisites wrote:But what about the Judge judging the case against himself?
The judge is not "judging the case against himself". As I had said before, any reports against me are only handled by the site admin or another moderator. I do not interfere with those at all. As far as moderating threads where I am involved in the discussions, if there is an obvious infringement of the rules then I will make the appropriate changes.

Do you have any specific examples of what you're talking about, as in any cases of unfair or improper biased moderation that we can verify?

To prevent such a situation from reoccurring, I will be comprehensively and exhaustively documenting (in addition to already-existing activity logging) any and all of my moderation activities going forward.
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Okisites
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Re: [Inappropriate Complaint]

Post by Okisites »

Spiral Out wrote:
Okisites wrote:But what about the Judge judging the case against himself?
The judge is not "judging the case against himself". As I had said before, any reports against me are only handled by the site admin or another moderator. I do not interfere with those at all. As far as moderating threads where I am involved in the discussions, if there is an obvious infringement of the rules then I will make the appropriate changes.

Do you have any specific examples of what you're talking about, as in any cases of unfair or improper biased moderation that we can verify?

To prevent such a situation from reoccurring, I will be comprehensively and exhaustively documenting (in addition to already-existing activity logging) any and all of my moderation activities going forward.
Actually what I meant to say is that, the allegations in the thread are against you yourself, and that is why you cannot delete those allegations, imo, what you call as ad hominem, or arguing the person presenting the argument instead of arguing the question at hand.

The allegations are against you(though not in the form of report or complaint), and this is why I think you should not apply your powers there. This I base on my common sense.

For example, the post#5 here clearly says that "You(you) have monitored me{Misty} and Newme". Why you monitored them only? You also deleted their mutual agreements, which you seen as ad hominem against you. Why?

You said that you did not delete Misty Mam's off-topic post#86, out of fairness, which is a very good move, but I think the quoted portion of your response in post#86, in that thread itself is rule-breaking, as it contains ad hominem( by saying that "I don't think you are capable of understanding the concept"). This is a ad hominem.

I am sorry if I am hurting you, but I feel that it is not right to indulge and show our powers when something is against us ourself. I may be wrong, and you can explain.

Thank You, Okisites.
Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong.” ― Thomas Fuller
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Spiral Out
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Re: [Inappropriate Complaint]

Post by Spiral Out »

Okisites wrote:Actually what I meant to say is that, the allegations in the thread are against you yourself, and that is why you cannot delete those allegations, imo, what you call as ad hominem, or arguing the person presenting the argument instead of arguing the question at hand.
The allegations were submitted in the on-topic section of the forums so in addition to being ad hominem personal attacks they were off-topic as well. If any allegations are presented in the proper forum and are in accordance with the guidelines set forth by the site administrator then of course I could not, and would not, delete them.

I'm not trying to cover anything up, if that's what you're implying.
Okisites wrote:The allegations are against you(though not in the form of report or complaint), and this is why I think you should not apply your powers there. This I base on my common sense.
I'm a moderator. I am supposed to moderate the forums in accordance with the forum rules. If I am witness to off-topic and/or ad hominem posts then it is my duty to delete or edit them. I also regularly check the list of reported posts and address them accordingly as well.
Okisites wrote:For example, the post#5 here clearly says that "You(you) have monitored me{Misty} and Newme". Why you monitored them only? You also deleted their mutual agreements, which you seen as ad hominem against you. Why?
I don't "monitor" anyone specifically. I was involved in that part of the discussion so I was immediately aware of the off-topic comments. The "mutual agreement" was submitted in the form of an off-topic ad hominem personal attack. It's that simple.
Okisites wrote:You said that you did not delete Misty Mam's off-topic post#86, out of fairness, which is a very good move, but I think the quoted portion of your response in post#86, in that thread itself is rule-breaking, as it contains ad hominem( by saying that "I don't think you are capable of understanding the concept"). This is a ad hominem.
I have suggested that the post be reported if it is thought to be a rule-breaking post. I do not interfere with reports made against me. What's fair is fair. I'm far from perfect and I accept full responsibility for any posts that I submit. I always have and I always will.
Okisites wrote:I am sorry if I am hurting you, but I feel that it is not right to indulge and show our powers when something is against us ourself. I may be wrong, and you can explain.
I understand your perspective and I appreciate your honesty and concern, Okisites. Thank you.
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Okisites
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Re: [Inappropriate Complaint]

Post by Okisites »

I will continue replying here in the site, day after tomorrow.

Thanks, have a good days, Okisites
Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong.” ― Thomas Fuller
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Re: [Inappropriate Complaint]

Post by Newme »

I really dislike tattle telling, but I think it is important if there is to be moderation, that it be fair, that moderators abide by the rules as well & I think Okisites is being reasonable and considerate in bring this up. I've noticed SpiralOut putting Misty down in another thread. It's common to let emotions overrule rules. I acknowledge and apologize again for blanket condemnation of those who adhere to certain schools of thought.

Spiral, I think for the most part you are fair & as mentioned, I admire how you think in many ways, but you're not perfect in your moderating. Nobody's perfect. The one thing imperfection hates the most is imperfection.

I suggest we all learn & do better, and move on.
“Empty is the argument of the philosopher which does not relieve any human suffering.” - Epicurus
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Okisites
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Re: [Inappropriate Complaint]

Post by Okisites »

It's okay Spiral Out Sir, but I suggest you to not to interfere in rule breaking post which is against you, it does look right or justified. This is why the reports against you is entertained by others and not you yourself, therefore imo, you also do not have to delete post which is against you and are rule breaking.

Thank You, Okisites.
Get the facts, or the facts will get you. And when you get them, get them right, or they will get you wrong.” ― Thomas Fuller
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Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021