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Homicidal Pacifist
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New Forum for Films, TV, Books, Music, and Comics?

Post by Homicidal Pacifist »

I think it would be cool to implant a new forum section (like the Ethics, Politics, and Religoun sections) and title it The Philosophy of Films, TV, Books, Music, Comics, and Video Games. where we could exclusively discuss claims and arguments found in the aforementioned categories.

Anybody with me?
Last edited by Homicidal Pacifist on September 19th, 2009, 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by existential yellow snow »

Yes, I greatly enjoy discussing ludology.

Here is an example:

Moral ambiguity works better in games. The player's actions should not be judged based off a moral compass; it alienates the player making him a slave to the mentality of the game creator's morals. For example, in Star War KOTOR, the player is given the option to help a poor widow by buying her worthless plate. By choosing "no", the player is plunged to the dark side regardless of his or her rationale.

A game that successfully employs moral ambiguity: Fallout 2

In one scene, you witness 2 POWERFUL guards harass and kill a family. If you interfere, you are as good as dead. Based off your courage and OWN morality, you can try to save the family whilst suffering severe damage. Regardless of your decision, without any pressure from a moral compass, the game does not compliment nor insult the player's individual morality. PLAYER AGENCY possesses more importance than an artificial moral compass implemented in the game (e.g., Star Wars' Light and Dark system).

"What about the Karma system in Fallout 2!"

Society will always judge the actions of others and prosecute them for it. The game, itself, is not judging the actions of a player. Rather, the dynamic society, portrayed in the game, is judging the character. Furthermore, different societies have different definitions of bad. Shooting someone in one town sets no alarm, "the Den", but shooting someone in another town may cause panic or indignation (e.g., bounty hunters will hunt you). That is good story-telling, not moral absolutism. It shows how people have to be careful of their choices in society, and the system does not condemn nor compliment the player's actions. Conversely, in Knights of the Old Republic, the actions of the player effect his appearance and position on the dark and light schema. The Jedi's "dark deeds" may make him look sinister, but the player may object to the game's rigid moral schema and rigidly given attributes to its own perceived notions of good and evil.

Finally, the term "karma" has many connotations. It is referring to one's level of respect in a society, not how evil or good one's deeds are.

Fallout 2 does not rely on black and white morality scales.

In order to better comprehend my point, please consult Maher's review of Majesty of Colors.
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Homicidal Pacifist
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Post by Homicidal Pacifist »

Cool man.

Yeah, add video games to the list.

I like the idea of less censorship and extremely flexible morality when it comes to video games; it is after all just a game; an non-harmful outlet for our sinister desires.

I like the moral ambiguity/relativism/subjectivism and the lack of moral judging that you're talking about (again, when it comes to video games) because it lets the player freely make his own choices and see first hand the possible outcomes of different moral decisions and then decide for himself which are best.
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Post by Homicidal Pacifist »

If we had a new forum for these kinds of things I would like to see (among many others):

The Philosophies of:

Lost

Dexter

Heroes

Breaking Bad

---

One Flew Over A Cuckoo's Nest

The Shawshank Redemption

The Green Mile

Seven

Of Mice And Men

Being John Malcovich

Magnolia

Castaway

District 9

Surrogate

Inglorious Basterds


ETC........


Help me convince Scott to add this new forum. Hound him with private messages.
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Post by whitetrshsoldier »

My favorite, of course, is House. But you can dicuss "House's" choices in the Epistemology section. I agree it would be nice, but how many sections can we break this site in to ???
"I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings! I'm obviously just insecure with the ineptitudes of my logic and rational faculties. Forgive me - I'm a "lost soul", blinded by my "ignorant belief" that there's such a thing as reality and truth in the world"
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Post by Homicidal Pacifist »

House is cool; I haven't seen enough of it yet.

But there's more philosophy to House than just epistemology though, right? That's we need a topic devoted just to House in a new forum.

Back me up.
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Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

This is an interesting idea. To be simpler, would you mind if I made the title of the category, "Philosophy of Art."

But would we actually be having philosophical discussion about artistic mediums or would we just discuss the particular philosophical arguments that happen to be made in any particular movie, show, etc. If it's the latter, then can't we just place the thread in whichever current category best fits those arguments (which if it's not particularly religious, political or moral issue, it is probably best suited for the general section or the epistemology/metaphysics section).

And if more than one philosophical argument or issue is present in any given movie, perhaps it would make sense to create an individual thread for each individual issue, in which we can discuss the points made by any given movie about that issue. What do you think?

And then maybe we could just create one thread with links to all of the other threads in the forums that happen to be based on a philosophical topic brought up in one or more movies, shows, etc. instead of creating a whole forum for philosophy of art. What do you think?
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

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I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Post by Homicidal Pacifist »

Scott - Thanks for replying.

I like the idea of the title The Philosophy of Art.

You said, "But would we actually be having philosophical discussion about artistic mediums or would we just discuss the particular philosophical arguments that happen to be made in any particular movie, show, etc."

I would think both types of conversations would occur. For example, one thread could discuss the benefits and technical aspects of implaniting philosophy into screenwriting, directing, etc. in general and the next thread could more directly discuss the philosophy instilled in a particular movie, etc.

You also said, "And if more than one philosophical argument or issue is present in any given movie, perhaps it would make sense to create an individual thread for each individual issue, in which we can discuss the points made by any given movie about that issue."

We could have a thread called "Lost and Morality" as well as "Lost and Epistemology", etc. or we could just have "Lost" and see where the conversations lead. I think I like the first option better because it is more precise. Good thinking Scott.

We could just put all of this into the Genreral Philosophy forum, but I think it would be easier to access in its own forum. I would be distressed if I wanted to discuss philosophies of morality, religoun, epistemology, politics, etc. of Lost but had to find it 4 different sections. All things Lost should be found together. Hee, Hee; that's kinda funny.

Additionally, I think that The Philosophy of Art is immensely important to all cultures and I feel that it deserve the respect of its own forum.


Thank you for the consideration.
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Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Homicidal Pacifist
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Post by Homicidal Pacifist »

Thanks mate. That's wicked cool.
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Post by Nick_A »

The trouble is that philosophy of art is one thing and chatting about media is another. I don't believe any good comes from combining them.

For example, Those interested could discuss what Frederic Church intended by his painting called "The Heart of the Andes"

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/hurs/ho_09.95.htm

Others can discuss Jennifer Anniston's behind and its implictions.

http://www.music-juice.com/celebrity-ne ... ehind.html

Both are worth discussing but I don't think it is beneficial to mix the two.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Yes, good point Nick_A. Perhaps, we could reserve the philosophy of art section for philosophical topics about art (e.g. "what is art," "what makes art good," etc.), but could have a few sticky threads that have links to threads from the other categories in the forums (like a list that could include of links a thread about attractive movie-stars from the off-topic section, a thread about reality based on the matrix from the metaphysics section, and a thread about the political arguments made in a certain movie from the philosophy of politics section). What do you think?
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Post by whitetrshsoldier »

whitetrshsoldier wrote:I know you said to go to HP's thread with our questions, but this is just an endorsement of the idea for you, Scott.

I think music especially encourages us to explore many of the ideas that we discuss on this site [it does so for me]. It also often reflects our deepest seated fears/emotions/desires/thoughts.

If we had this forum, we could quote lyrics and discuss how we interpreted them, and how they led us to conclusions about life, metaphysics, epistemlogy, etc.

I think this is an outstanding idea!!!
I originally wrote this for the "voting" post that Scott had made regarding this topic.

I think that "Art" includes all kinds of 'artistic expression'.

That would include music and other forms of media, wouldn't it?
"I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings! I'm obviously just insecure with the ineptitudes of my logic and rational faculties. Forgive me - I'm a "lost soul", blinded by my "ignorant belief" that there's such a thing as reality and truth in the world"
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Post by Nick_A »

Scott wrote:Yes, good point Nick_A. Perhaps, we could reserve the philosophy of art section for philosophical topics about art (e.g. "what is art," "what makes art good," etc.), but could have a few sticky threads that have links to threads from the other categories in the forums (like a list that could include of links a thread about attractive movie-stars from the off-topic section, a thread about reality based on the matrix from the metaphysics section, and a thread about the political arguments made in a certain movie from the philosophy of politics section). What do you think?
We accept relative qualities of intellectual intelligence but are generally unaware of differing qualities of emotional intelligence and usually just associate it with some form of culturally approved reactions.

An instruction manual is designed to increase intellectual awareness. A work of real art does the same with our emotions. It allows us to experience a quality of emotion we usually never experience in our daily lives and is connected more with our emotional potential.

I believe Technically it would be good to separate art philosophy from casual media and expression. But are we collectively willing to respect quality in art as we do in the intellect? We respect quality in scientific exploration but are we willing to do likewise for the emotions through art?
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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