Philosophy of language - Split from "Why Atheism Cannot..."

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EMTe
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Re: Philosophy of language - Split from "Why Atheism Cannot.

Post by EMTe »

Postmodernist generator bot?
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chazwyman
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Re: Philosophy of language - Split from "Why Atheism Cannot.

Post by chazwyman »

EMTe wrote:Postmodernist generator bot?
No, a paraphrasing of Adorno. Did you like it?
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EMTe
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Re: Philosophy of language - Split from "Why Atheism Cannot.

Post by EMTe »

I know the name "Adorno" and I know he was one of you, philosophers, but I certainly don't know his thoughts. I don't even remember if he was leftist or rightist. I am also aware of the existence of postmodernist generator, so if you were mimicking it you were great, but you probably missed the point of this topic and my approach in general. I am trying to destroy philosophy by persuading people to return to scientific observation, not by creating absurd sentences out of logical sentences.
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chazwyman
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Re: Philosophy of language - Split from "Why Atheism Cannot.

Post by chazwyman »

EMTe wrote:I know the name "Adorno" and I know he was one of you, philosophers, but I certainly don't know his thoughts. I don't even remember if he was leftist or rightist. I am also aware of the existence of postmodernist generator, so if you were mimicking it you were great, but you probably missed the point of this topic and my approach in general. I am trying to destroy philosophy by persuading people to return to scientific observation, not by creating absurd sentences out of logical sentences.
Then you do not seem to be achieving your aim. Science has a massive debt to philosophy, indeed for most of history there was not even a distinction between the two, as natural philosophy is what was once science. Science without philosophy is nothing more that looking at things and recording what you see. Science is nothing more than description; philosophy of science makes sure that those observations and interpretations are worthwhile. Further, philosophy is the cognitive realm where all the original questions of science get asked. The regions of speculation and imagination where science seeks to describe in terms of materialism. But it is philosophy that has provided science with its basis; its methodology; its ideology and its scrutiny.

More than all of this philosophy can provide science with its rasion d'etre, and can challenge science's tendency to apply to the social realm what is not appropriate to it. Philosophy asks those important questions that science is not capable of doing - such as should we destroy a forest, should we use that bomb; should we apply mathematica reasoning to social problems?
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EMTe
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Re: Philosophy of language - Split from "Why Atheism Cannot.

Post by EMTe »

Sure science has a debt to philosophy, but it can be also said the other way around, because various activities of humans frequently intersect. So it is justifiable to say that certain philosophical ideas might have inspired certain practical inventions or general pursuit for knowledge in medicine, physics, biology, astronomy etc., but it is also justifiable to say that the latter ones inspired philosophy. Stick never has one end. Anyway, it is hard to believe how philosophy, which was in the past ages practiced by a small number of people could have affected the technological advance of humankind in general. Sure, some philosophers were also mathematicians, physicians, engineers etc. but the limited availability of their works and huge illiteracy amongst masses make me conclude that you overestimate the influence of philosophers on any kind of broadly understood "advance". I think everyday basic needs of simple people had bigger influence on scientific knowledge. And if you look closer, the biggest technological advance came in XX century, the same century in which philosophy practically ceased to exist and converted, partially into neuroscience, partially into postmodernist chaos.

Now as for topic, it is important for me not only what somebody says, but how he does it and why he does it. Imagine that you're sitting in a chair with various electrodes, cables, monitors and any kind of futuristic stuff you can imagine sticked into all holes and organs of your body. Your interlocutor is sitting in the similar chair. On the monitor you both see the data about your opponent, produced on the fly. Temperature of his body, echo of his heart, blood pressure, chemical composition in his intestines, tomography of the brain. Also, you are both equipped with a huge dossier about the opponent. History of his life, his dreams, his hidden desires, things he is ashamed of, professional psychological profile, information about books he read, places he visited and you also have access to the recordings of all the conversations he ever made in his life (I don't know how would you absorb this knowledge though :mrgreen:). Anyway, now one of the philosophers says:

"It always remains a scandal of philosophy and universal human reason that the existence of things outside us should have to be assumed merely on faith and that if it occurs to anyone to doubt it, we should be unable to answer him with a satisfactory proof."

Of course he can also say "I lost my car keys today and had to catch the bus".

Now, wouldn't such a philosophical debate be fun? :mrgreen: It would certainly demystify some of "philosophical" mysteries. ;)

Seriously now, this is hardly the topic discussing the possible creation of philosophy of language section, so if there's no chance for creating it maybe this thread can be moved to philosophy of science section at least. Certainly, it may be interesting for more people than two of us. Hope moderators read it too.
The penultimate goal of the human is to howl like the wolf.
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chazwyman
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Re: Philosophy of language - Split from "Why Atheism Cannot.

Post by chazwyman »

EMTe wrote:Sure science has a debt to philosophy, but it can be also said the other way around, because various activities of humans frequently intersect. So it is justifiable to say that certain philosophical ideas might have inspired certain practical inventions or general pursuit for knowledge in medicine, physics, biology, astronomy etc., but it is also justifiable to say that the latter ones inspired philosophy. Stick never has one end. Anyway, it is hard to believe how philosophy, which was in the past ages practiced by a small number of people could have affected the technological advance of humankind in general. Sure, some philosophers were also mathematicians, physicians, engineers etc. but the limited availability of their works and huge illiteracy amongst masses make me conclude that you overestimate the influence of philosophers on any kind of broadly understood "advance". I think everyday basic needs of simple people had bigger influence on scientific knowledge. And if you look closer, the biggest technological advance came in XX century, the same century in which philosophy practically ceased to exist and converted, partially into neuroscience, partially into postmodernist chaos.
Yo are just presuming a false distinction. Pythagoras, Archimedes, Euclid, Aristotle, Francis Bacon, Aristarchus, Galileo, Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, were all primarily philosophers. You also need to consider Berkeley, Hume and Locke, who practically invented science. Philosophy has not ceased to exist in any sense. [/quote]
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EMTe
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Re: Philosophy of language - Split from "Why Atheism Cannot.

Post by EMTe »

No, you are wrong. What remains of our history up to recent centuries is usually eccentric, innovative, extraordinary, groundbreaking or simply an emanation of power. So we are taught in schools about kings, mathematicians, philosophers, spiritual or military leaders, genocides, comet sightings, pandemics etc. But when it comes to the short and usually dull life of ordinary man philosophy has nothing to say.
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