God like attitudes of forum administrators.

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Xris
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God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Xris » June 9th, 2013, 3:48 pm

Coming from a none academic perspective I find it hard to understand how a philosophical forum can be constrained and operated by the judgement of one man with no recall to an independent adjudicator. It seems to me to oppose much of the well understood arguments on philosophical ethics and the reasoning we mostly express against dictatorships.Forums are in general the antithesis of what they propose to promote.One man can consider one reply abusive but ignore what most to be abusive and we have to meekly accept it without argument.Is this what philosophy represents? I have now been told it is only 2 sentences long. When in fact it was 4 but then I have added these to placate the machine.

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Scott
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Scott » June 11th, 2013, 12:19 pm

I do appreciate your feedback, Xris.

My forum is run kind of like a dictatorship. My home is run kind of like a dictatorship too. If you wanted to paint my kitchen red, but I don't want it to be red, I won't let you paint it red and there will be no recall to an independent adjudicator to decide if you paint my kitchen red. Similarly, if one wishes to store their writings on my computer's hard drives and use my servers to disseminate those posts they would need my permission just as much as they would need my permission to store their leaflets in my car and use my car to drive around and hand out those leaflets. Much like a magazine that may publish submitted articles, I have policies which I make public regarding which submissions I will publish and which ones I will refuse to publish in my magazine/online-forum. Those are listed in the forum rules.
Xris wrote:One man can consider one reply abusive but ignore what most to be abusive and we have to meekly accept it without argument.Is this what philosophy represents?
I don't ignore reported posts. If a member uses the report button, I will review the reported post and make a non-ignorant decision. It is quite often that one person's post gets reported by a second person and then the first person complains to me about deleting the first person's post but 'ignoring' the second person's alleged violation even though the first person did not report the second person's post. If you report a post and after several days I have not taken action, please feel free to send me a PM asking for an explanation about your report and exactly which rules by letter you think the post violated.

While I am under no obligation to use or abide by an adjudicator, I am confident enough that the forum rules are clear and that my decisions regarding reported posts reflect a strict adherence to the forum rules that I would gladly offer an adjudicator the chance to review a decision I made vs. the forum rules when a poster feels he has had his posts deleted in contradiction to the forum rules or that a report was 'ignored' in contradiction to the forum rules at the request of that member and the volunteering of some relatively trusted independent adjudicator at the request of the complaining poster. Please note, every warning is stored privately in the database for admin review, but I generally would not wish to humiliate members by airing their collection of angry childish personal attacks, pseudo-arguments if you will, made to strangers on the internet in an otherwise leisurely philosophical chat, except at that member's request.
Xris wrote: I have now been told it is only 2 sentences long. When in fact it was 4 but then I have added these to placate the machine.
Use a space after end-of-sentence periods.
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Xris
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Xris » June 11th, 2013, 2:57 pm

Thanks for your reply Scott. I appreciate that it is your forum and certain aspects have to be protected.I feel on more than one occasion your judgement has been harsh and one sided to the point that I find it difficult to understand how you operate. I have suffered many an abusive comment in the same page where I have had posts deleted. Is it a matter of first complained gains the advantage? I can withstand certain abuse but do I now have to report every post I find directed at me rather than my opinion.Just in case my reply is seen as a personal insult? I do not want to paint your forum red but I would appreciate an ability to defend myself without resorting to petty disputes over every decision you make. This is one of the best if not the best philosophical forum on the net and I would hate to leave simply because certain posters are quite capable of giving abuse but too readily complain when they receive equal treatment. Thanks again Scott for posting this thread,xris.

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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Simply Wee » June 12th, 2013, 6:49 am

I don't think I ever felt the need to complain, at least I can't remember ever having too. I'm sure I have been harshly judged, but that is something I too am guilty of. The forum is not perfect, it does appear to adhere to university standard which in itself will never cater for the great thinkers, those who like the fish that can climb mountains, is made to appear foolish when compared to other fish. I guess.
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Misty
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Misty » June 12th, 2013, 8:49 am

I have NEVER pushed the button on legitimate forum users. I am an adult and feel I can defend myself. I find it petty that adults cannot have conversations which include at the moment feelings only to be discarded by one who seemingly can't take what they dish out. I would rather have one apologize for wrong doing then to be spanked like a child. It ruins the flow of the discussions to erase a post. I think there is a difference in one wanting to destroy a topic by consistent bad behavior (where banning is OK) and the occasional posters who say things in jest or from the heart that may or may not be meant as insults or simply taken wrong. I don't care what anyone thinks of me or what they say to me, that is how I discern friend and foe. Sometimes others misunderstand what is going on between two people posting and push that button. I think the rules need to be modified to more adult responsibility.
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Philobot » June 13th, 2013, 8:31 am

I think the rules need to be modified to more adult responsibility.
Sorry Misty, as much as I agree with most of the content of your post, I do not support the statement above. I have had my fair share of warnings too as I am not exactly the all cuddly philosopher type. But still, I think, Scott does his job reasonably well. He seems not too intrusive to me all in all. If it was my personal playground, it was probably different too, more anarchic, but I think he is right in saying that it is not my playground. And now as I think of it, maybe the reason why this is not my playground is precisely because I do think more in 'anarchic and nomadic' terms: I would never think of starting a project such as this.

People who complain about, well whatever.., do it usually because they cannot think of alternatives, and this is probably due to lack of imagination and creativity: they feel themselves trapped in some kind of back to the wall situation. In my opinion, only very rarely are we in such a situation. There is almost always an alternative if we care to think about it.

I am all for adult responsibility. But it seems to me that adult responsibility is not really what most people desire in their life. Therefore, we cannot really expect to be treated as adults all the time in a social environment where people usually are more than happy to shirk responsibility and let all kinds of institutions do the thinking and caring for them. Independent thought and self-sufficiency appears to be a scary thing to have at ones own disposal in many cases. This is not meant to be finger-pointing as everyone gets what he deserves in the end.

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Misty
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Misty » June 13th, 2013, 9:12 am

Philobot wrote: This is not meant to be finger-pointing as everyone gets what he deserves in the end.

Is this statement your beliefs about life in general or just for this forum?
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Fanman
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Fanman » June 13th, 2013, 2:13 pm

I think I've had two or three warnings from Scott, and on all occasions I had broken the forum rules - so what can I complain about? I have also reported a couple of posts when I felt that I was personally insulted by someone else. Scott has been helpful to me when I asked for assistance, and given myself and Spectrum open praise on the forum. I think that he does a good job here and I really like this forum and it's format, I've made some good friends here. In the end, it is his forum, and he runs it how he sees is best.

Also, in Scott's favour, I find that when I am tempted to say something that might be construed as personal or offensive, I reconsider what I am going to say and re-write it, as not to cause offence. This is conducive to productive philosophical debate, and prevents discussion from descending into a trade of insults. Were it not for the warnings that I received, would I have learned that lesson?
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Wuliheron
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Wuliheron » June 13th, 2013, 3:16 pm

Scott's not so bad, misguided and confused in some ways if you ask me, but certainly not a despot. However, I agree forums like this can be managed differently. The women's movement in particular figured out ways to deal with the issue by having everyone who participates do rotating shifts as moderators and making decisions consensually. However, that is work and requires people actually want to participate and give back to the website which often requires the website to be nonprofit, while Scott is here to make a profit which why it has the ".com" suffix. All academic philosophy is a "for profit" venture.

Xris
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Xris » June 13th, 2013, 3:24 pm

I may be wrong but I believe Scott has not the time to consider the consequences or the background to the complaints he receives.I have been waiting over 24 hours to have my posts reviewed for posting as I am on probation for committing several alleged abusive posts.This post will not been seen or posted for at least 24 hours.I have had several warnings and have accepted them without complaint but this recent spate of complaints in my opinion did not warrant the harsh treatment I have received. This petty attention is not conducive to open debate and no matter how much I would regret leaving if it continues I will have no alternative.So to all those friends and advesories, if this is my last post( I hope it is not) thank you for the last three years of interesting and informative digestion.xris.

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The Quirkster
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by The Quirkster » June 13th, 2013, 3:43 pm

I can understand your feelings, Xris, as I've read a number of posters who feel the same.

In saying that, though, the civility and regulation of these forums is by far the best I've ever experienced on the Internet. I've seen the worst of the worst. Considering the range that philosophy encompasses as the whole of the human experience, and the different perspectives and opinions that come along with them, I believe Scott does his best. I also believe that for the forums to be as civil as they are, there must be some measure of strong regulation, however, I don't think Scott harbours any grudge or desire to censor specific people. I don't believe he has certain people under closer watch than others.

But, that being said, your experience, Xris, is your experience, and no-one can argue that you aren't justified in asking these questions if you feel hard done by. I think it's important you air these grievances, because I believe Scott is better able to run the forum when he can read the individual feedback from some of its most respected posters, let alone those who are new.

Just my thoughts, as vapid as they usually are.
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Fanman
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Fanman » June 13th, 2013, 4:07 pm

The Quirkster,

I think that it would of been a better idea for Xris to address his concerns to Scott in a private message. By choosing to address the issues on the actual forum, in an open topic, he has made it a political issue. Thereby causing people to take his or Scott's side. When the actual issue of: "Did Xris actually deserve the warning and to have his posts deleted" is lost and forgotten. I have had many arguments with Xris, and I have found his arguments on occasion to contain ad hominem and strawman fallicies (which I indicated to him). That is against the forum rules. That is that. Therefore, it is merely a case of Scott applying the forum rules to Xris, and not Scott unfairly prohibiting Xris' freedom of speech, being a dictator and 'bullying' Xris as his OP would cause one unknowing to believe. I believe that Aristotle would call Xris' OP - political rhetoric. Here, Scott is Xris' opponent.
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Geordie Ross
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Geordie Ross » June 13th, 2013, 6:00 pm

Apparently, the popular phrase "feeding the troll" is more offensive, than topics and discussions that are, inciting hatred. I'm getting the impression that phrases from anti bullying campaigns, are far more abusive than promoting genocide. I find this rather unsettling for a philosophy forum.
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Misty
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Misty » June 13th, 2013, 8:18 pm

On the contrary, Xris expressing his concerns in an open forum helps all of us. No person or forum is above improvement.
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

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Philobot
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Re: God like attitudes of forum administrators.

Post by Philobot » June 14th, 2013, 4:26 am

Fanman wrote: I think that it would of been a better idea for Xris to address his concerns to Scott in a private message.
Though It is not always easy to do so, we all know, I think communication works the better the more open it is. Behold The Internet! it is basically open communication. I do not see anything wrong whith that approach. In my opinion, the Internet thrives on openness, if it ever becomes private, it simply withers away and dies.
Fanman wrote: I have had many arguments with Xris, and I have found his arguments on occasion to contain ad hominem and strawman fallicies (which I indicated to him).
But then why censorship? Don't you think that your own position would look stronger, if you let the others see Xris supposedly offensive comments, since they would then see that he is 'wrong' and you are not?
Fanman wrote:
I believe that Aristotle would call Xris' OP - political rhetoric. Here, Scott is Xris' opponent.
I think Aristotle would probably not have resorted to such, I dare say, unphilosophical means as to silence him by using violence, that is by calling in the authority or the police. That would have been below his dignity as a philosopher, at least that is what I hope, respecting Aristotle as, however mythical as a person, a great philosopher.

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