Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
- EMTe
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
Take a breathe of fresh air, meet people, don't philosophise more than necessary, hug the tree, kiss the stone. And never get excited. Excitement is The Devil.
- Rayliikanen
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
I never get excited. At anything. But I hear the Devil knocking on the door. And the window's open right now letting in fresh air. What's he doing at the door?
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
I've registered and am now appearing in the disguise of one of my favorite science fiction movies. Rayliikanen no longer exists.
- EMTe
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
Go to bed at 10 pm.
Don't drink. Don't smoke. These come together with overdosed reading.
^^
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
I like your sense of humor. My wife always gets the better of me. I can never watch movies until after midnight, like I used to as a bachelor. And I never smoked, ever.
And at least eight hour of sleep is mandatory to avoid brain atrophy. I know. I read it in "Beyond Good and Evil." But don't try and find the exact quote.
- Hereandnow
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
Socially speaking, I should add that Ayn Rand was a great proponent of N., though her anticommunist/prolibertarian rant was not what N had in mind. She believed in the master race, the gifted elite, the natural aristocracy that *should* rise to the top and stay there. This is how nature intended. Today's right wing is driven by Ayn Randian thinking: John Galt, Howard Roark, and so on--all ubermensches. Just look at the conservatives on social and economic issues: These "Christians" are as close to Rand's neoNietzschean take as you can get. Of course, N. was not an atheist....he was THE atheist! It is a wonderful irony: These great defenders of Christendom-- church going, Bible loving, and endlessly moralizing, are the very close social policy descendants of Friedrich Nietzsche, the most infamous atheist the ever lived. HA!
PS Most don't realize how important N is because they live so completely in his shadow.
- Breathing_purple
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
There are things that trouble me these days, that we are becoming more of a textbook philosophers.
- Hereandnow
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
- Breathing_purple
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
Hereandnow wrote:Absolutely! He was always ill. But he anticipated the end of rationalism. As to becomng textbook philosophers, I don't see the problem. A text is another person talking to you and taking her time to get it right. Philosophy texts give us interpretative possibilities; they transfigure the worldif you stick with them.
By using the word textbook philosophers I mean learning from the ideas of someone else and forcefully injecting ideas in your head are two different things. I came across certain freethinker closed groups ( Why the hell freethinker group is a closed group ) who claim to be a philosophical rational group try to free the masses from religion, irrationality and mysticism but they act in the same way like the fanatical religious people do.
"Common man doesn't care, while the freethinkers (often belonging to rational religion) and religious groups pushing too hard."
Beyond good and evil is a great book and I love reading it over and over again.
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
Right now I'm reading "Twilight of the Idols," after reading "The Anti-Christ."
Despite the negative depictions in the latter work, I enjoyed reading both of these much more than "Beyond Good and Evil." "Twilight of the Idols," is a superior work to BGE in my estimate, even though it's much shorter. Maybe this brevity explains its superior clarity. At least here, I can definitely see where I take exception to the hammer.
- Hereandnow
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
I do tend to agree with the intolerant free thinkers, though I would leave mysticism off the list. But I am different from them in this: Religion needs to overcome because it stands in the way of people seeing clearly into the real religious human condition. Yes,we have one, but if the bible is all you read, you will never deconstruct your beliefs and never be free of their influence. Nietzsche hated Christianity with great intensity. See his The AntiChrist. Of course, Beyond Good and Evil is a refutation of biblical (and philosophical) moral authority.philosophical rational group try to free the masses from religion, irrationality and mysticism but they act in the same way like the fanatical religious people do.
SoylentGreen wrote
I interpret the hammer as saying we need to incorporate into our thinking 'intuition' as much as 'rational' thinking. Where we lose touch with our intuition our rationality loses its way.
It is more about style and charisma than about intuition. Intution is a term reserved for direct cognitive apprehension. But you, know, Nietzsche was a big fan of Ralph Waldo Emerson, the American transcendentalist, who was very intuitive. In fact, he is considered a moral intuitionist. Nietzsche liked his Self Reliance and the flare of his rhetorical prose, but certainly not his religious bent. Just goes to show you, it is not the ideas so much. Like Aristotle, it is the man himself that made for respect and honor.
- Breathing_purple
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
So, Is intuition really important for the individual and what is the significance of intuition in the society.?Hereandnow wrote:
It is more about style and charisma than about intuition. Intution is a term reserved for direct cognitive apprehension. But you, know, Nietzsche was a big fan of Ralph Waldo Emerson, the American transcendentalist, who was very intuitive. In fact, he is considered a moral intuitionist. Nietzsche liked his Self Reliance and the flare of his rhetorical prose, but certainly not his religious bent. Just goes to show you, it is not the ideas so much. Like Aristotle, it is the man himself that made for respect and honor.
- Hereandnow
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
- Anathematized_one
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
I feel that Beyond Good and Evil is best read/accompanied with On the Genealogy of Morals and with Kierkegaard's Either/Or for a contrasting view (more to contrast "On the Genealogy" than "BGE").
The overall idea is sort of a reevaluation of Aristotelian ethics to me and somewhat a commentary on the subjective view of moral determinations based soley on the action, the motivation or the result of any situation. Example, one may say murder (as in purposeful killing of another) is always immoral, yet the circumstances are different. Is it in self-defence? Is it in retribution? Is the result the loss of a horrible person to all of man or a good person?
Essentially that to say a given action, motivation or outcome alone is "good" or "evil" is highly subjective and an entirely human concept. If you purposely murder an animal for food, is it immoral? Same action, different circumstances. What of a person who alone is a blight on society as a whole? Does it matter if the murder of that person is motivated by anger, retribution or an altruistic "greater good" idea?
The critique being that no action, motivation or result is inherently good or evil, both subjective concepts found only in mankind and that moral determinations are also subjective and purely human. There is no "murder" in "nature", it is in "nature's" nature to have no morality. Morality only exists in mankind and it is due to our need to regulate ourselves as "nature" regulates itself. Because we cannot live beyond subjective "good" and "evil" behaviour, we must have a subjective morality which constantly changes based on our subjective views of good and evil (such as in "Genealogy of" where Christianity, to Nietzsche, takes what was once a good thing of industriousness and saving for your family and turns it to an evil of greed because they were oppressed by those with and they were without).
I'm never indirect/insinuating w/out explicitly saying I am (but may not say exactly what). I have a large vocabulary, but use common speech (not all are the same reading level or speak native English). What I say means exactly that and nothing else.
- Hereandnow
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Re: Discuss Beyond Good and Evil
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
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