The necessity of looking like an idiot from time to time

[setelement]

This is an important aspect of growing as a thinker. That is to be shown to be incontravertably wrong.

The reason for this importance is to better our growth as a philosopher. For the lessons that we learn the most from are those lessons that make us look foolish in not only our thoughts but also those critquing us.

This can come from errors in judgment, and also out right misinterpretation of the concepts and ideas of others. What do you guys think.
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7. Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent.

-Wittgenstein

[wanabe]

I agree in a sense, however I wouldn't call it a necessity. It may lead to a better memory on the topic, but "looking like an idiot" is not needed. There are other ways to remember things.
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The Secret To Eternal Life: Live Life To The Fullest, And Help All Others To Do So. Fear is weakness leaving the mind.

[ape]

Xlnt!
Which is why Philosophy is about the Wisdom of Love, which Love loves each word and its interdefinable opposite, and so allows us to admit we are fools because we are wise even before we believe or think or speak or make foolish mistakes.

Example:
The Interdefinability of words and their opposites means that being a fool and being wise, being smart and being dumb go together,-- which is why the first thing a wise man knows is that he is a fool; where ignorance is bliss, tis wise to be a fool; only fools fall in Love; and etc.
This interdefinability means I can't love being wise without automatically loving also to be dumb; and that the first mistake in thinking is to believe in hating myself as a fool.

[setelement]

[athena]

Thank goodness it is okay to be wrong. I say things I really want to be wrong, hoping someone will prove me wrong.

On the other hand, I think the right mix of education is the closest we can get to a good solution, and I don't want to be wrong about that.

When it comes to being wrong because of incorrect memory- I really don't like that, but then, I think this is part of creativity? When we remember little pieces of many different things, our heads can put those pieces together in new ways, creating new thought. Forgetting is an important part of being able to think, unfortunately though, I seem to be too good at forgetting.

[Juice]

"Stupid is as stupid does"
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When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

[Nothingman]

Sup setelement,

Funny you posted this, I was thinking of this kinda thing last week.

Throughout the past three years I have been in constant awareness of my actions, emotions and most of all thoughts. I came to the realization that I am a constant hypocrite. I kept judging others as if I would never do these things, no matter how trivial they seem to be. As I judged people of what they did, I was ending up doing the same thing either 30 seconds or 5 minutes or an hour later. The moment after I did them I was realizing that I just complained about the other person doing these things! Over and over and over, countless times throughout each day. I was constantly getting aggrevated with myself for judging others and being this constant hypocrite.

Ex: A guy at work took the coffee pot out before the coffee was done dripping. I knew he was going to do this and got irritated. A couple of seconds later I got a thought that I was probably going to do the same thing because I complained(in my mind) about it. Ten minutes later I went to fill my coffee mug up, noticed it wasn't done dripping and as I was taking it out I realized that I was about to do the same thing I complained of another doing. I did it anyway.

In doing so I laughed at myself instead of getting aggrevated with myself. I felt privileged to actually notice I was wrong. A gift. A sense of equality overwhelmed me. I realized I have been arrogant and egoist. Judging others humans and knowing I would never do these things was egoist in itself. It humbled me. I realized that there is a point(or maybe millions) in being wrong. Especially about others.

Now when I judge people negatively in my mind, I stop and reflect on myself. How do I know I wouldn't do or be like this? The truth is, I don't and if I am not certain, it is foolish to certainly judge others. Being wrong has helped me in this way. In my view, one of the most important ways.

PS: I don't know if I would have ever been happy with myself about being wrong without reading ape's posts all the time.

So I thank you, oh hairy one.
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"Maybe, might be the only philosophical sanity"

Fatalist. I hope fate last forever. Love you God.

[athena]

It ain't easy being human, and agreed, Ape, makes it easier for us to accept our humanness.

[ape]

Setelement:
Thanx! And please remember that it takes an eloquent one to know one! A guru to know a guru! !

Athena:
That's so right: forgetting and memory work as one! When we remember that we forget, our memories and our forgetfulness are working just fine! So no one needs to worry about Alzheimer's if we love to remember and love to forget, if we love ourselves as wise and as foolish: for then we always remember one thing: Love for ourselves as all words and their opposites: which one Love is always so easy to remember and so impossible to forget!
Example:
Ever notice how Alzheimer's patients always forget first what they HATE and always remember first and forget last what they LOVE? I knew a person about 24 who forgot and cd not remember her how to properly button up her blouse which buttoning-up she did not love, but cd play what she loved: Beethoven's 5th and whoever's Moonlight Sonata: from memory!

So if you seem to be too good at forgetting, it must mean that you are also good at recalling AND bad at recalling--certain things! Just examine yourself for: do you love yourself as forgetful? Do you love you as having an idiotic memory? Do you love you as senile, as alzheimeresque, as etc? Do you ever forget yourself?
When we do not remember that we forget or that we should forget is when we are already in deep trouble!
And thanx for the encouragement!

Nothingman:
I was actually going to write encouraging you that you were on your way to loving yourself all the way and that by 'egoist' and etc you meant 'hatist' or 'hategoist' --BEFORE I read that 'hairy one' comment!. So you DO know that you are already everyone else! Xlnt!
The only difference in what we think and say and do as compared to others is in HOW we think and say and do: we think and speak and do in Love and thus at mostly the right times while others think and say and do in Hate and so mostly at the wrong times. Qed!
Thanx for the encouragement too!

[Nothingman]

[Scott]

I would agree that the biggest idiot is the person who thinks their poo doesn't stink and who cannot laugh at themselves sometimes. We all do stupid things from time to time.

I do not think you have to be made to look like a fool to grow as thinker. One can argue a point, and then later realize that that against which one was arguing is actually logical and/or true, or one can realize that their own argument contains a fallacy or an untrue statement. Acknowledging this does not make one look like a fool. Quite the opposite, IMO, I think it shows one's wise modesty and self-awareness.

I believe that he who thinks he is least the fool is for that reason the biggest fool of all.
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Online Philosophy Club - Please tell me how to improve this website!

[Nick_A]

[Juice]

You guys are lucky! I'm still trying to learn from my mistakes, and other peoples too.
_________________
When everyone looks to better their own future then the future will be better for everyone.

An explanation of cause is not a justification by reason.
C. S. Lewis

Fight the illusion!

[ape]

Hi Nothingman!
Well thanks for the credit and the encouragement, and not necessarily in that order!

[setelement]