Welcome to the Philosophy Forums! If you already are a member, please log in. If you are not a member, please join the forums now. It's completely free, and all viewpoints are welcome.
| View previous topic :: View next topic :: |
James S Saint
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 403
|
Post: #16  Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: Satan |
  |
|
|
| JPhillips wrote: |
| I think some of you who reject Christianity do not realize that to Christians, Satan represents the hater of both God and men. According to Christian belief, Satan now realizes he can never defeat God and that he is damned for eternity. The only way he can get back at God is by destroying as many souls and by dragging as many souls to hell with him as possible. |
I wouldn't say that Satan "hates" men. Satan wants to govern Man, so he tries to tempt Man into following his lead. He tempts Man into deceiving others, dictating good and evil and thus spreads deception which then yields control to the deceiver. God, being the actual Truth, is then supplanted by the false perception of Truth. "Perception is reality", "Reality is only in your mind", "God is a myth", "You are your own God", "There are no absolutes", "Truth is relative", "Why not",... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
athena
Contributor
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 739
|
| Post: #17 Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
OTavern wrote:
| Quote: |
| I am sure Hitler started by listening to that little voice in his head telling him to be bad. Seemed innocuous at the time, but look where it got him. Little steps. You really don't know what you are promoting. Deception has many guises. Starts out as "What's wrong with..." and ends up with... |
I think you have said the most important thing to be said. We do not know where our minds will go, and it is best to take care with our thoughts. I think Jesus's advise to not even think about things we would not want to do, is a good idea. Or we can go the other way and discuss our thought with a counselor and work through the thought without having to act out.
I have a strange agreement and disagreement with Christians. I believe God and Satan have as much power as we give them. However, I believe the power is a placebo effect of our own thinking, not the power of supernatural beings. Harboring Satanic thoughts and feeding them with say, stories and pictures of crime, torture and murder, can lead to being overwhelmed by this thinking, and thinking one must act on these ideas, or that one is possessed by a supernatural evil spirit. It is a dangerous thinking pattern to develop. We attract, or become more readily aware of, that which we think about. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ape
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 2762
|
| Post: #18 Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| James S Saint wrote: |
| ape wrote: |
Isaiah 11:
6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. |
"Shall" when?  |
Hi JSS!
Whenever we repent of the sin of Hate for wolves or pitbulls as per Acts 2:38-40, by loving ourselves as wolves so we automatically love wolves as ourselves and so lvoe the Wolfman as ourselves as per Matthew 25:35-40!
Example:
My neigbor's pitbull which he trains to hate strangers and neigbors can't bite me since i love myself as it and love it as myself! One day i was in my yard and I sensed something or someone behind me: I turned around, and it was that pitbul crawling on his belly to smell and lick the back of my boots! As soon as I turned around, he ran away!
On another occasion, I was talking to the owner in his yard and the pitbull got away from his pen and came up licking my hands! The owner was shooing the dog away and upset that the dog was so friendly and more mad that I was not afraid! And I was saying: Hey good buddy and patting his head! I even told him: He can't bite me because he knows I love him!
God made all animals with the ability to sense attitudes! That's also why the lions did not eat Daniel: they smelled his Love for them! Love makes pussycats of the big and small cats and all animals as in zoos!
Don't try this at home -- ---till you commit to loving you as a dog and as all of God's creation! Then that Love wd so exude from you, not one dog will even bark at you! Exodus 11:7. smile
Something sorta like this:
Acts 28
1And when they were escaped, then they knew that the island was called Melita [Malta].
2And the barbarous people shewed us no little kindness: for they kindled a fire, and received us every one, because of the present rain, and because of the cold.
3And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened [in Love] on his hand.
4And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5 And he [in Love] shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
6Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
"And when Love speaks, the voice of all the gods
Makes heaven drowsy with the harmony.
Never durst poet touch a pen to write
Until his ink were temper'd with Love's sighs;
O, then his lines would ravish savage ears
And plant in tyrants mild humility."
Love's Labour's Lost
[IV, 3]
"The reason is, your spirits [of Love] are attentive:
For do but note a wild and wanton herd,
Or race of youthful and unhandled colts,
Fetching mad bounds, bellowing and neighing loud,
Which is the hot condition of their blood;
If they but hear perchance a trumpet sound [they love],
Or any air of music [they love] touch their ears,
You shall perceive them make a mutual stand,
Their savage eyes turn'd to a modest gaze
By the sweet power of [the] music [of Love]: therefore the poet
Did feign that Orpheus drew trees, stones and floods;
Since nought so stockish, hard and full of [the] rage [of Hate],
But [the] music [of Love] for the time doth change his nature.
The man that hath no music [of Love]in himself,
Nor is not moved with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems and spoils;
The motions of his spirit [of little Love]are dull as night
And his affections [for Hatred] dark as Erebus:
Let no such man be trusted. Mark the music."
Merchant of Venice
[V, 1] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
James S Saint
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 403
|
| Post: #19 Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| ape wrote: |
| Whenever we repent of the sin of Hate for wolves or pitbulls as per Acts 2:38-40, by loving ourselves as wolves so we automatically love wolves as ourselves and so lvoe the Wolfman as ourselves as per Matthew 25:35-40! |
Ever hear the story about the frog and the scorpion?
Ever hear about the pet dog, lion, bear that one day suddenly attacked their loving masters?
There will be a time for love to actually be a realistic endeavor for all, but now is not that time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ape
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 2762
|
| Post: #20 Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| James S Saint wrote: |
Ever hear the story about the frog and the scorpion?
|
Sigh
As Psalms 110:1 says: With God's Unconditional Love, we are able to make our enemies into friends, frogs into frogmen and kermit, scorpions into champions, and real pain into sham pain and champagne!
| James S Saint wrote: |
Ever hear about the pet dog, lion, bear that one day suddenly attacked their loving masters? |
Proverbs 12:10A righteous man regardeth *the life of his beast*: but *the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.*
Those were masters who also hated themselves as dogs and as lions and as bears and as kids, and so, as their human kids were also mistakenly taught to hate their fathers, those animals were unwittingly taught to hate their masters!
Ezekiel 16: 44Behold, every one that useth proverbs shall use this proverb against thee, saying,
As is the mother (and father), so is her daughter (or his son).
45Thou art thy mother's daughter (or father's son), that loaths her husband (or his wife) and her (or his) children; and thou art the sister of thy sisters (or the brother of your brothers), which loathed their husbands (or their wives) and their children: your mother was an Hittite, and your father an Amorite.
| James S Saint wrote: |
There will be a time for love to actually be a realistic endeavor for all, but now is not that time. |
For you, it might not be now, JSS. I hope not!
When do you think is God's time for you to repent, JSS?
Mark 1:15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is *at hand*: repent, and believe the gospel.
Acts 2 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
God's time for me is now!
John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Jeremiah 31:3The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting Love: therefore with Lovingkindness have I drawn thee. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
James S Saint
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 403
|
| Post: #21 Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| ape wrote: |
| As Psalms 110:1 says: With God's Unconditional Love, we are able to make our enemies into friends, frogs into frogmen and kermit, scorpions into champions, and real pain into sham pain and champagne! |
Soo.. emm.. how do you explain 2000 years of Jews hating Christians? It would seem that Jesus would have overcome all enemies by now. 
| ape wrote: |
| When do you think is God's time for you to repent, JSS? |
That's God's timing, not mine. If it were up to me, it would have been years ago. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Belinda
Contributor
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 2812
|
| Post: #22 Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Ape,your love for the poor pit bull that its owner had sought to brutalise is obviously composed of understanding of the pit bull, together with your self confidence, which the pit bull sensed as dogs do. It makes you into a pack leader.
I guess that your self confidence is a product of your commitment to God as powerful Love. I do applaud this version of God both for giving self confidence to individuals who hold to that faith, and as a way of peace between different belief groups.
The psychology and political desirability of your faith stance is not in question by me. What I cannot agree with is the supernatural beliefs that accompany it.
By 'supernatural beliefs' I refer to for instance , demons, which may be taught as actual beings or as imaginative personifications of something good or bad. I disapprove of the former, and approve of the latter.
_________________
Socialist |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ape
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 2762
|
| Post: #23 Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| James S Saint wrote: |
Soo.. emm.. how do you explain 2000 years of Jews hating Christians? It would seem that Jesus would have overcome all enemies by now. |
Elementary! God uses mis-Haters as substitutes for Him --Matthew 25:35-45--- to see if Xtians or those who call themselves followers of God wd love Him as an enemy and as a mis-hater or as any WORD!
Example:
1 John 4:
20If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
That's the same thing He did with Pharaoh and the Egyptians and etc: used them to check out the attitudes of the Israelites whom He had also told to love their enemies and friends, family and strangers, as lovers and haters! See Exodus 23:22.
Exodus 23:
22But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
Leviticus 19:
17Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
34But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.
Deut 10:
16Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
19Love ye therefore the stranger: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.
Now He is also using Muslims or atheists or whoever we think of as the least of these to see who will love Him as Muslim or as atheist or as the least of these!
| James S Saint wrote: |
| ape wrote: |
| When do you think is God's time for you to repent, JSS? |
That's God's timing, not mine. |
Exactly--as per John 6:44!
| James S Saint wrote: |
If it were up to me, it would have been years ago. |
For me too, it wd have been years ago when I was 12!
So guess what? It may be now for you: God may be using me as his pen to stir up the earnest of His Spirit of Love already in you! :yes:
1 Corinthians 7:
13And the woman [APE] which hath an husband [A FRIEND NAMED JSS] that believeth not, and if he [JSS] be pleased to dwell with her [OR TO BE FRIENDS WITH APE], let her [LET APE] not leave him.
14For the unbelieving husband [OR THE UNBELIEVING FRIEND] is sanctified by the wife [OR BY THE BELIVING FRIEND] , and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
16For what knowest thou, O wife, [OR O APE] whether thou shalt save thy husband [YOUR FRIEND JSS]? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.
So maybe it was God who inspired you to ask me that question about 'When?'
Like this story in Acts 8:26-40!
Last edited by ape on Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
James S Saint
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 403
|
| Post: #24 Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| ape wrote: |
| God uses mis-Haters as substitutes for Him --Matthew 25:35-45--- to see if Xtians or those who call themselves followers of God wd love Him as an enemy and as a mis-hater or as any WORD! |
But if God is "using" them to see something He would really already know, then He would not take kindly to me being rid of them. So my enemies are the intent of God and not to be shed.
So how can it be that my love would eliminate them if God wouldn't allow it? Even Jesus couldn't do it and He seriously tried. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ape
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 2762
|
| Post: #25 Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Belinda wrote: |
Ape, your love for the poor pit bull that its owner had sought to brutalise is obviously composed of understanding of the pit bull, together with your self confidence, which the pit bull sensed as dogs do. It makes you into a pack leader. |
Dearest Belinda! You can only say so because you have the same Love in you! :yes:
That makes you into a Lady Wolverine in Love, who has just conferred on me a Knight, er, I mean, a Wolfhood to go along with my Apehood, which makes me Wolfman and Apeman, and most of all, first of all a Lovehood, which makes me Loveman or Loverman or Lover!
Yes, it's that Confidence in Love and that Understanding of Love in which I have understood confidence whether I am confident and understanding or not, that does the trick!
| Belinda wrote: |
I guess that your self confidence is a product of your commitment to God as powerful Love. I do applaud this version of God both for giving self confidence to individuals who hold to that faith, and as a way of peace between different belief groups. |
Sigh I am humbled by your analysis of what you describe as my ' commitment to God as powerful Love.' Xlnt!
And I can only approvingly re-echo that applause in Love to you for seeing Love's power for peace and for all the good we all want!
:notworthy:
| Belinda wrote: |
The psychology and political desirability of your faith stance is not in question by me. What I cannot agree with is the supernatural beliefs that accompany it. |
I see! I am all ears! Speak on, My Lady!
| Belinda wrote: |
By 'supernatural beliefs' I refer to for instance , demons, which may be taught as actual beings or as imaginative personifications of something good or bad. I disapprove of the former, and approve of the latter. |
Thank you for your explanation of why you disagree with me!
However, may I hasten to reply and humbly submit to you that we are in total agreement?
May I explain?
As you yourself mentioned above, God is both God, and personfies himself as powerful Love! All-powerful Love, I might add.
So as long as we love God as God, and love God as Love, and love Love, we can allow or tolerate or encourage others to love God as ONLY God and NOT ALSO as Love since they don't see him also as Love--as long as they also love God as Love and love Love!
See?
So too with Satan and demons: Satan, being the opposite to God, is both an actual being and/OR the personification of the sin of Hate of any words.
So too, as long as we love Satan and hate Satan's personification as the sin of hating any word, it does not matter if we think of Satan as an actual being or as the personification of the sin of Hate for self any words!
See?
So the whole of what is true about Satan and demons incorporates both your idea of limiting Satan to the imagination as a personification or as an imaginative or metaphorical personification AND my idea which allows him to be both an actual being or a metaphor as Ediaan also believes.
Whatever you believe in and approve of re. Satan is just fine as long as you also love who or what you do NOT approve of since the only thing we are to never ever approve of is the Hatred of any word or person or place or thing or its opposite word.
So in The Power of Love for all, we can be all persons in Love to all persons, all in Love to one, one in Love to all, one in Love to one, and etc as per 1 Corinthians 9:18-22.
NB: Notice how the Power of Love for opposites also solves all the arguments over whether the Holy Spirit is an actual Person, the 3rd Person of The Blessed Trinity, OR is imaginative personification of The Spirit of the Mind Of God as in 1 Corin 13 and Philippians 2:5 or both!
What do you think about this? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
James S Saint
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 403
|
| Post: #26 Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Demon == an effort (i.e. "spirit") to de-unite or break up the whole. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ape
Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 2762
|
| Post: #27 Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
| James S Saint wrote: |
But if God is "using" them to see something He would really already know, then He would not take kindly to me being rid of them. |
Ah! But it gets better!
Yes, he would take kindly to you getting rid of them AS LONG AS YOU FIRST LOVED THEM so you wd get rid of them in Love and so get rid of them without getting rid of your Love for them, --- since he first actually used them to to send them on you to get you love them because he already knew you already hated them and feared them!
NB: We also get rid of our friends in Love from our homes or we get rid of ourselves in Love from our neighbor's home! So the problem is not ever about getting rid of any friend or enemy, but HOW we get rid of them: in Love or in Hate?
Proverbs 25:17 Withdraw thy foot from thy neighbour's house; lest he be weary of thee, and so hate thee.
Ezekiel 23:28 For thus saith the Lord GOD;
Behold, I will deliver you into the hand of them whom you hatest, into the hand of them from whom your mind is alienated:
Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in Love; but perfect Love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in Love.
| James S Saint wrote: |
So my enemies are the intent of God and not to be shed.
|
Excellent! So just as above with 'getting rid,' we can only get rid of or shed our Hate for enemies since enemies and friends are 2 sides of the same word-coin and we can't have friends without enemies nor enemies without friends and since all words have enemies or oppisites or antonyms or adversaries or contradictions!
God wants us to shed Hate-shedding for enemies and always keep shedding Love or keep Love-shedding for enemies and friends! Loveshedding for enemies and friends means less to none bloodshedding!
| James S Saint wrote: |
So how can it be that my love would eliminate them if God wouldn't allow it? |
Great point as above! It's impossible to shed enemies without also shedding friends! So God only wants us to eliminate Hate for enemies and so eliminate Hate for friends!
| James S Saint wrote: |
Even Jesus couldn't do it and He seriously tried. |
He did not try to get rid of enemies and succeeded in shedding all the Hate of enemies by taking on Love and shedding Love for enemies and friends!
John 13:
35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have Love one to another.
| James S Saint wrote: |
Demon == an effort (i.e. "spirit") to de-unite or break up the whole. |
Xlnt: an effort or spirit to deunite or break up the whole in the spirit of Hate of the part or in Hate of the whole. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
*Izzy*
Joined: 28 Dec 2009
Posts: 418
|
| Post: #28 Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 2:17 am Post subject: Re: Satan and the power of hate |
|
|
|
| athena wrote: |
Epa has given us an opportunity to think what we think about love and hate, by daring to make antisocial statements. We have much to gain by engaging her philosophically.
So let us consider the power of Satan and demons? Does Satanism have something of value?
Can we define hate? What manifest it? |
Satan theoretically is known as the deceiver and trickster, his biggest trick thus far on man was convincing him he does not exist. : Hate is too tame a word..Evil might fit better. Do you think Evil and Demons are valuable? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Belinda
Contributor
Joined: 10 Jul 2008
Posts: 2812
|
| Post: #29 Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 4:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
Izzy, 'evil' and 'demons' are words that carry superstitious connotations. Words with a lot of baggage such as 'evil' and 'demons' are not as useful in philosophy and psychology as words that carry less connotation.
I suggest that 'evil' is better rendered as 'wrong'. And that 'demons' is better rendered as 'supernatural beings that intend harm'.
_________________
Socialist |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
James S Saint
Joined: 14 Oct 2009
Posts: 403
|
| Post: #30 Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
|
"Evil" is the reverse spelling of the word "live" for a reason. Evil is anti-life. In German it is "Efyl", reversed to spell "Lyfe".
Evil must exist simply because life exists. Evil is the effort in the opposite direction as life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
