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Nick

Joined: 10 Sep 2009 Posts: 71 Location: Yiwu City, China
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Post: #16 Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi everybody!
I am reminded of the example of when two American Christian parents were living in Japan and sending their childen to public school in Japan. One day the school had a assembly for a Buddhist national holiday occuring that day. The American parents became very angry, because the assembly was very supportive of Buddhism. All of the Japanese people at the school were completely baffled by the American parents' protests.
I agree that we cannot have activities in public schools in America that are supportive of one particular religion. The study of comparitive religions in school is the way to go, as long as the classes do not end up supporting one particular religion. Unfortunately, such classes can cause students in the class to start proselytizing other students in the class, whether or not the teacher intended for such proselytizing to occur. A Hindu child, Buddhist child, etc., should never be put into a position of having to put up with proselytizing at school, especially as the result of official classroom activity.
Last edited by Nick on Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Scott Site Admin

Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1081
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Post: #17 Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to point what I feel is a problem for education not just in regards to this issues addressed in this thread. That problem is the lack of choice. I think students do not have enough choice over their classes. For instance, in high school I had to take earth science was a required course in my school. The need to understand the basic concepts of science and to practice applying them made sense to me, but the same goal could have been achieved from any type of science--biology, astronomy, etc.--so why would I have to take a class the bores me rather than get to chose which type of science to learn. I had no desire nor need to practice the scientific method on random rocks from the school's backyard. Similarly, children who want to learn about the scientific history of religion could take that class, while kids who wanted to focus on other aspects of history or social science could do that. There is a few general classes and general topics that all students would need to learn, but the vast majority of the particular focus of any class is irrelevant. The idea is to teach kids how to learn, to study, to work, to think critically and to know and use the scientific method. Let the kids and the parents choose the subjects and focuses that most interest or least offend them. _________________ Online Philosophy Club - Please tell me how to improve this website! |
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Nick_A
Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Posts: 1461
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Post: #18 Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick wrote: |
Hi everybody!
I am reminded of the example of when two American Christian parents were living in Japan and sending their childen to public school in Japan. One day the school had a assembly for a Buddhist national holiday occuring that day. The American parents became very angry, because the assembly was very supportive of Buddhism. All of the Japanese people at the school were completely baffled by the American parents' protests.
I agree that we cannot have activities in public schools in America that are supportive of one particular religion. The study of comparitive religions in school is the way to go, as long as the classes do not end up supporting one particular religion. Unfortunately, such classes can cause students in the class to start proselytizing other students in the class, whether or not the teacher intended for such proselytizing to occur. A Hindu child, Buddhist child, etc., should never be put into a position of having to put up with proselytizing at school, especially as the result of offical classroom activity. |
Hi Nick
I have to leave shortly but I'm glad you are on this thread since your knowledge of Theosophy can add meaningful ideas not often considered. I have to find some things to add.
I take the Platonic and Simone Weil view towards education. It emphasizes developing the qualities that can balance the earthly, societal, and higher conscious influences. Modern public education is sadly lacking any awareness of this and only concerned with parroting head knowledge where real education should help the young to become capable of "understanding"- acquiring a more human perspective and not just a functiong expression of one of the myriad of whims of the Great Beast. _________________ Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace |
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Belinda Contributor
Joined: 10 Jul 2008 Posts: 2812
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Post: #19 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| Nick wrote: |
Hi everybody!
I am reminded of the example of when two American Christian parents were living in Japan and sending their childen to public school in Japan. One day the school had a assembly for a Buddhist national holiday occuring that day. The American parents became very angry, because the assembly was very supportive of Buddhism. All of the Japanese people at the school were completely baffled by the American parents' protests.
I agree that we cannot have activities in public schools in America that are supportive of one particular religion. The study of comparitive religions in school is the way to go, as long as the classes do not end up supporting one particular religion. Unfortunately, such classes can cause students in the class to start proselytizing other students in the class, whether or not the teacher intended for such proselytizing to occur. A Hindu child, Buddhist child, etc., should never be put into a position of having to put up with proselytizing at school, especially as the result of official classroom activity. |
Could the problem be solved if everybody remembered that there is no such being as a Hindu child,a Christian child, a Buddhist child, a Conservative child, or a Socialist child?They are all children. Isn't the proper aim of education to prepare the child for independent freedom of thought?
How serious is the problem of stroppy parents?
********* ********
Scott #17 Perhaps the school was too small to be able to afford the cash for a wider curricular choice? Each addition to the curriculum needs a separate teacher, classroom and examination, I suppose. _________________ Socialist |
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Nick

Joined: 10 Sep 2009 Posts: 71 Location: Yiwu City, China
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Post: #20 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:25 am Post subject: |
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Belinda, you said,
"...there is no such being as a Hindu child...."
--> I disagree.
"Isn't the proper aim of education to prepare the child for independent freedom of thought?"
--> The aim of education is to protect children from propoganda, much less instigate propoganda against those children.
Nick A., you said,
"Modern public education is sadly lacking any awareness of [earthly, societal, and higher conscious influences] and only concerned with parroting head knowledge...."
--> I am reminded of a true story in an American public school. One child had not bathed in quite some time, and the smell got so bad that the other children started complaining. The teacher finally sent a note home to the parent addressing the issue. Insensed (pun intended), the parent came running angrily to the teacher and basically said, don't smell my child just teach him. People refuse to let our schools teach values to childen in school, while refusing to teach those same values to their own children.
Last edited by Nick on Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Scott Site Admin

Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1081
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Post: #21 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Belinda wrote: |
| Scott #17 Perhaps the school was too small to be able to afford the cash for a wider curricular choice? Each addition to the curriculum needs a separate teacher, classroom and examination, I suppose. |
In a small school that may limit the ability to give children curricular choice. Anecdotally, it was not the issue in my overcrowded school. With about a thousand people in my class (and thus about 4 thousand in the 4-grade school), each one required to take Earth science in the same grade (They don't even get to choose which year they take it!), you can figure out about how many classes that was--let alone counting people who fail the class and have to repeat the class. I doubt much would have changed regarding costs and number of teachers if some of those many classes were turned into a few different types of science that would be just as specifically unuseful later in life (unless the student gets a job in that very specific field) but just as well at teaching the scientific method, work habits and studying habits. _________________ Online Philosophy Club - Please tell me how to improve this website! |
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Nick_A
Joined: 19 Apr 2009 Posts: 1461
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Post: #22 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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Plato wrote that he highest goal of all education is knowledge of the good. Does are increasingly secularized society remember what this means? No
The lowest level of understanding is the classification of shadows on the wall of the cave and furthers our imagination.
Above that is the classification of things of the visible realm and taken together form our beliefs.
Moving further upward we become aware of simple forms such as numbers and shapes.
Above that we become open to the higher forms such as equality in context, beauty, truth, and of course the "good" itself which can be apprehended by ones intuition where objective knowledge resides in Man.
Education then should be structured as to further this structure of understanding which can lead to direct knowledge of the "good." The trouble is that the secular experts in education have denied this opportunity for the young and glorified cave life. It is continued by a societal process described by Simone Weil:
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| Weil lamented that education had become no more than "an instrument manipulated by teachers for manufacturing more teachers, who in their turn will manufacture more teachers." rather than a guide to getting out of the cave. |
There simply is no way a secularized educational system can open the young to freedom from the cave when with rare exceptions they are paid to further and glorify cave life.
Thank goodness for private education which is capable of revealing the "good" for the young by teaching them "how to know." _________________ Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace |
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Palimere
Joined: 01 Dec 2009 Posts: 6
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Post: #23 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| xowally3 wrote: |
| Schools should be reserved for the teaching of fact, not opinion. |
So, by your own admission, evolution should not be allowed to be taught in schools, as this is not a proven fact. Rather, it is a theory, created a few hundred years ago by a man who wanted to explain away God. But it is still an opinion. But I'm sure if the government tried to remove the teaching of evolution as fact from public schools, a whole lot of people would have one giant, collective fit. |
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