Welcome to the Philosophy Forums! If you already are a member, please log in. If you are not a member, please join the forums now. It's completely free, and all viewpoints are welcome.
| View previous topic :: View next topic :: |
Blacksad
Joined: 29 Nov 2009 Posts: 1
|
Post: #1 Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:31 pm Post subject: Age Disparity In Relationships: Does Love Have Restrictions? |
|
|
|
Hello all, I am a long time lurker, first time poster.
We've all heard the saying "Love is blind". While not many people openly disagree with this saying, age disparity in a relationship seems to be a hot topic amongst people. The social "rule" for age differences in a relationship is half your age plus seven years. Is it fair of us to place age restrictions, or for that matter, any restrictions upon love?
Western culture has placed a taboo upon older men lusting after younger women, yet on the other hand embraces older women sexually pursuing younger men. Older women who pursue younger men are labeled as "cougars" and considered socially acceptable while older men who pursue younger women are labeled as perverts or pedophiles and ostracized by others. Why the double standard?
I believe that society has become too strict in its definition of pedophilia. Yes, I think it is safe to assume that a 5 year old girl would be ignorant to the serious nature of sexual intercourse and lack the sufficient knowledge to make any form of decision relating to coitus. Can we really say the same for a 14 or 15 year old girl? At this age, most human beings have sexually experimented in some form, be it masturbation or with another person. Why is 18 the "magic number" regarding consensual sex? I know many sexually responsible teenagers, and I also know many more sexually irresponsible adults.
I guess my moral query is, can we as a society really place an age restriction upon something as uncontrollable as love? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ape
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 Posts: 2756
|
Post: #2 Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
| Blacksad wrote: |
Hello all, I am a long time lurker, first time poster.
|
Hi Blacksad!
Welcome in from the shade!
| Blacksad wrote: |
We've all heard the saying "Love is blind". |
Love is blind because, just as a blind man does not change his focus no matter on who or what his gaze is on, so too Love does not change its focus of Love no matter who or what it sees or doesn't see because it loves the beauty and the ugly, the sighted and the blind, the old and the young, having sex and not having sex.
(Love is totally different to sex or to not having sex.)
So Love is blind because Love is actually also the best thing to see by!
| Blacksad wrote: |
While not many people openly disagree with this saying, age disparity in a relationship seems to be a hot topic amongst people.
|
That is because among most people there is agism: Love of the young mixed with Hate of the old, and vice versa; sexism: Love of women coupled with Hate of men, and vice versa. And other isms like paternalism, classism, racism, homophobism/homophobia, and other isms.
Example:
Love loves to have sex and to not have sex, loves what it wants and love what it does not want.
So Love is totally different to sex and is extant before sex, during sex and after sex, and especially when there is no sex contemplated at all.
Love is what we get or have sex in, and is in what we get or have no sex.
| Blacksad wrote: |
The social "rule" for age differences in a relationship is half your age plus seven years. Is it fair of us to place age restrictions, or for that matter, any restrictions upon love?
|
Do you see how you are conflating sex with Love?
Example: I love God and my mom as much as my wife but I never have sex with God nor my mom and have sex with my wife.
See?
So we can rewrite that like this:
The social "rule" for age differences FOR HAVING SEX in a relationship is half your age plus seven years. Is it fair of us to place age restrictions, or for that matter, any restrictions upon SEX WHILE PUTTING NO RESTRICTIONS ON LOVE?
YES to both questions.
And so to not make this too long, I will just add my words in CAPS:
Western culture AND ALL OTHER CULTURES haVE placed a taboo upon older men lusting after younger women OR UPON OLDER MEN WANTING YOUNGER WOMEN OUT OF HATE FOR OLDER WOMEN, --WHICH IS WHAT LUST IS---yet on the other hand embraces older women WHO IN HATE OF OLDER MEN ARE sexually pursuing younger men. CLEARLY THAT SAME OLD DOUBLE STANDARD OF LOVE FOR ONE AND HATE FOR THE OTHER. Older women who pursue younger men are LOVED AND labeled IN LOVE as "cougars" and considered socially acceptable while older men who pursue younger women are HATED AND labeled IN HATE as perverts or pedophiles and ostracized by others.
| Blacksad wrote: |
Why the double standard?
|
Because all cultures are based on the fundamantal double-standard of Love for one combined with Hate for the opposite-other.
Example:
It is the same double-standard if I only love sex and hate not getting any.
| Blacksad wrote: |
I believe that society has become too strict in its definition of pedophilia. |
First of all, the name pedophilia: Love of children shd be misopedia: Hate for self as a child compounded by Hate for self as not getting any sex.
So the definition is NOT strict enough.
Yes, I think it is safe to assume that a 5 year old girl would be ignorant to the serious nature of sexual intercourse and lack the sufficient knowledge to make any form of decision relating to coitus BUT AT THE SAME TIME BE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT LOVE.
| Blacksad wrote: |
Can we really say the same for a 14 or 15 year old girl? |
No, we can't say YES when it comes to sex, but we can definitely say NO when it comes to Love! So those 12-18 year olds and older are basically definitely having sex without all the Love needed to make a benefit of having sex and so are having sex out of Hate for getting none which is what and where lust and rape and etc and fatherless kids come from!
| Blacksad wrote: |
At this age, most human beings have sexually experimented in some form, be it masturbation or with another person. |
But they have by this time also bottomed out on the Love they had as toddlers and kindergarten kids so that all of their activities and goals are based on what they hate!
To prove this, all we wd have to is ask any teen: Do you love and/or respect yourself as a foolish virgin or as a loser or as a failure?
| Blacksad wrote: |
Why is 18 the "magic
number" regarding consensual sex? |
18 is not the magic number but it is a reasonable age based on when young people can be expected to be be independently responsible for themselves and for any sex they have and for any kids they have and for any of the other good and bad consequences.
At 10 maybe, kids are physically ready to have sex but not ready spiritually nor psychologically for its consequences.
At 18 and above, adults are still ready for sex but most do not have the Love to make the sex work and for making having no sex work!
| Blacksad wrote: |
I know many sexually responsible teenagers, and I also know many more sexually irresponsible adults. |
I heard that!
| Blacksad wrote: |
I guess my moral query is, can we as a society really place an age restriction upon something as uncontrollable as love? |
No, there shd be no and there can not be not any restrictions on Love which is for all ages. But yes, there shd and must be restrictions on sex.
Example:
I taught my son and dtr to love themselves having sex and not having sex so that their Love for themselves wd be always present in their hearts and minds with or without sex. And in that Love, they shd not have sex before they were living on their own!
This meant that when any guys approached my dtr for sex, the convos wd go like this:
Guy:If you loved me, you wd prove it by giving it up and having sex with me!
Dtr: If you loved me, you wd prove it by NOT having sex with me since you wd love me whether we had sex or not!
Guy: But sex is Love!
Dtr: Yes but Love is both sex and no sex! See? Then when we were not having sex, you wd still love me! But if we have to have sex to prove I love you, then no sex, no Love! Right? And we can't have sex all the time. And altho I want to have sex, I don't want it at this time since I can't afford it and especially since you can't afford it!
And because I love myself and you with sex and without sex, I can wait, I can take it or leave it: and I choose to leave it alone!
Plus: You working? No. You stealing? No. You dealing? No. You're a magician? No? So you're not even ready physically for sex and babies.
Plus without Love for you as sexed and unsexed, you are not ready for yourself nor me: you can't handle you nor me! See? So, do you love me if I don't give you sex?
Guy: You have to prove your Love by doing something, by your actions!
Dtr: Well, I am proving my Love for you by having the action of NO sex with you, and you have to prove to me that you love me by the action of NOT having sex with me! What say you?
Guy: No way! It's sex or the hi way!
Dtr: See what I mean? You only have part-time Love: no sex, no Love. Ok. So bye, altho I still love you!
Qed.
Hope that helps. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Homicidal Pacifist

Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 540 Location: Your mom's house. Ha.
|
Post: #3 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:07 am Post subject: . |
|
|
|
I started seeing my girlfriend of 2 years when I was 26. She was 17. I was robbin' the cradle and she was robbin' the grave. It was she who pursued me. I hesitated for a month or two because of the 9 year difference and because I was her boss (naughty!) but I finally gave in.
We are very happy together.
There's got to be some kind of restriction because otherwise, 30 year old dudes would doing some messed up stuff to 10 year olds. The Line might need to vary depending on the people and the circumstances, and penalties may not need to be overly severe when it is consentual and the youngin is at least has the legal right to drive a car. Driving is as serious a situation as f*cking and entails as much responsibility, caution, and understanding. _________________ "If Ignorance Is Bliss, Then Knock The Smile Off My Face!"
- Rage Against The Machine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Scott Site Admin

Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1081
|
Post: #4 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
I also think the age of consent is too high in most places.
The issue of adults having sex with children is very different than the issue of wrinkly old people having sex with significantly younger adults. Firstly, almost nobody wants the latter to be illegal while almost everybody wants the former to be illegal--even though may disagree slightly on where to draw the line between child and the age of consent.
I assume people feel negatively about a 65-year-old having a sexual relationship with a 25-year-old for the many of the same reasons they would feel negatively about a super hot person being in a sexual relationship with an ugly, morbidly obese person of the same age. It could be jealousy. It could be the belief that one of the people is taking advantage of the other. For instance, is it gold-digging, implicit prostitution, abusive, career-driven or what?
While statutory rape and that which is close to it is commonly viewed as a problem with male perpetrators, I have not noticed a significant difference in people's opinions about an elderly man and a younger adult being together as opposed to an elderly woman and a younger adult. Is there any evidence to support the claim to the contrary such as a scientific poll? _________________ Online Philosophy Club - Please tell me how to improve this website! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alun

Joined: 11 Jul 2009 Posts: 686
|
Post: #5 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Welcome to the forum Blacksad,
I think it is fair to mandate restrictions on love based on what love actually is. Love is a deliberate affection; in order for people to have a loving relationship, those individuals need to choose to enter it. Making an informed choice can require at least some experience; in the case of love, as a society we find that quite a bit of life experience is necessary to guard against a non-consensual, and thus non-loving, relationship.
So, as has been said, there's definitely a restriction in age somewhere. However, mandates by society are, imo, generalizations on the side of caution. We are willing to make all 16 year olds (in Texas) wait until their next birthday, since we think at least a statistically significant portion of them aren't ready--that doesn't mean they're magically matured at 17, just that on average the majority of people will be ready to choose for themselves by then.
I think what you're really asking, though, is not about pedophilia or teenage lust, but about age disparity among people who are unquestionably adults. Should a 24 year-old woman be allowed to see a 58 year-old man? Well, I think it should be allowed. However, I think there's also some wisdom behind the stereotype against age differences. People in a committed relationship grow together--but age is a huge determinant of life experiences, so it's hard to imagine that an older person will be affected by circumstances the way a younger person might.
However, both parties are fully capable of figuring out whether they fall under this generalization; I honestly believe that, for some people, even a substantial age disparity is more desirable, healthy, and fulfilling than age equality. I just doubt this is the case for most people. _________________ "I have nothing new to teach the world" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
athena Contributor
Joined: 11 Jun 2009 Posts: 739
|
Post: #6 Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
At least two female teachers have been persecuted for having sex with under age male students. For sure one went to prison for a few years. If someone is persecuted for having sex with a minor, depends to some degree on the minor's parents. If the parents do not object, it is unlikely the law will take action, unless the minor is very young. It is not saver for the female than it is for the male, to have sex with minors, and when it comes to older women having affairs with younger men, I would not say society looks on this well.
In the past, we married 14 year old girls off to older men. This serves a practical purpose, considering how unruly a 14 year old girl can get, and the cost of providing for her, especially if she has a baby out of wed lock. It is best to marry off the girls when they are old enough to get pregnant.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Homicidal Pacifist

Joined: 19 Jul 2009 Posts: 540 Location: Your mom's house. Ha.
|
Post: #7 Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:08 am Post subject: . |
|
|
|
The older can potentially guide the younger and the younger can potentially revitalize the older. _________________ "If Ignorance Is Bliss, Then Knock The Smile Off My Face!"
- Rage Against The Machine |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|