Why Does God Hate Homosexuality?

[whitetrshsoldier]

Ouch. No, really, ouch. And you're the example of all that's good in the world? Please, take some time on your next insult. The world is waiting and watching, holding their breaths to observe the downfall of the example of what they "should not be". All the while, I'm sure they're counting on following your lead; and the world will be a better place once everybody unleashes a tirade of defamatory statements. What a great example you set ...
_________________
"I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings! I'm obviously just insecure with the ineptitudes of my logic and rational faculties. Forgive me - I'm a "lost soul", blinded by my "ignorant belief" that there's such a thing as reality and truth in the world"

[James S Saint]

Still again, you presume.

Who said that I was trying to "set example"?

When that time comes, if it comes, we can discuss it then. Until then, I have higher priorities. You are hardly my priority in life (yet).

But as you argue, for what reason should I concern myself with your hyper-reactive state? Can you present rationale that indicates that you should be of any concern to anyone at all?

If so, then I suggest that you get to it. You might want to address such a topic in the ethics and morality threads already on that subject. Although, I suspect that your reading skills will prevent you from understanding what is written, because you hyper-presume and thus miss the meanings entirely. Perhaps if you merely were to slow down and re-read, maybe take a break between 3-4 readings BEFORE you post anything. But is your call.

[whitetrshsoldier]

OK, "Jamie", a quick lesson in something I like to call "sarcasm" seems to be in order. Ready?

[Palimere]

Can't we all just get along?

This IS meant to be a forum where people can present their thought-out, well-crafted, philosphical ideas and not be attacked for holding them, isn't it? All I see here is attack after attack on good, well-presented ideas.

Personally, I do believe that homosexuality is wrong, as written in the Bible. I also believe it to be unnatural. Going all the way back to HP's post at the beginning of this forum, that homosexuals are homosexuals inherently, I have to respectfully disagree. Homosexuality IS a choice. I have known MANY young men and women who left the homosexual lifestyle they were ingrained in and addicted to, and now are loving parents, with great spouses of the opposite sex. The reason they left that lifestyle? Because after reading the Bible for themselves, with absolutley no outside influence, they decided for themselves that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong. So they JUST QUIT. The same way that many alchoholics and drug addicts have quit their addictions after realizing that the Bible tells them the sinfulness of what they are doing.

And just addressing the question before anyone posts a reply asking-

The way that I know those people read the Bible without outside influence is because I made sure they did. I have a ministry through my local church that ensures that we can get the Bible into the hands of those who we feel need it, and that they read it all the way through before coming to a service and hearing our church's own opinion on the issues.

Thank you for your time and I am very glad for this website. It allows me to use my philosophy and (sometimes)debate skills.

[Homicidal Pacifist]

Palimere -

I am glad to hear that you don't want to brainwash people with your church. But brainwashing them with the Bible is just as bad.

You said, "Can't we all just get along? This IS meant to be a forum where people can present their thought-out, well-crafted, philosphical ideas and not be attacked for holding them, isn't it? All I see here is attack after attack on good, well-presented ideas."

Not for me it isn't. Just as I reserve the right to call out a person who supports the holocaust or child molestation or murder so to do I expect and hope that others will tell me I am out of line when they think I am. I may or may agree with their assessment. Nevertheless, I can 'get along' with a pedophile, but I will still voice my opinion and tell him he is full of S***.

You don't have to respectfully disagree with me. After all, I AM calling your Bible a Book Of Lies.

I will meet you halfway (hopefully you will do the same) by saying that I am not positive that homosexuality is a choice IN ALL CIRCUMSTANCES. By this I mean that I cannot be sure that every gay person does not have a choice in whether or not to be gay just as you do not have the ability to say that every person does have the choice of whether or not to be gay. The reformed gays that you have known seem to be able to abandon the gayness, while the ones I have met seem to be unable think of the opposite sex in a sexual nature.

Perhaps they are just unwilling. But I know I'd be pissed off if some group kept telling me that I had to start getting erections by looking at men.

Anyway, to reiterate, I am not saying that they are forced by nature to indulge in homosexual acts, but I do think it is reasonable to say that it is at least possible that they are naturally inclined to the same sex and disgusted by thoughts of heterosexual sex much in the same way that straight people are inclined to have heterosexual sex and be naturally turned off by gay sex.

And I've seen some messed up reformed gays that are obviously back in the closet and ashamed and repressed/oppressed and I think this is a trick of the church and the prejudiced, lying authors of the Bible.

In any case, I'm pretty sure that God does not look at them and their 'sin' with more disgust than when He looks at you and your sin. Do you ever support war and capital punishment? Do you outlaw God's creation (marijuana)? At least they ain't hurtin' nobody. (The only way that they hurt themselves or others is by believing your self-defeating mission work which makes them feel as if they are guilty and which spreads the message that fags should be killed as is said in Leviticus. Otherwise, they are simply living a love-filled life with the partner of their choosing.)

Welcome to the site. And don't get offended.
_________________
"If Ignorance Is Bliss, Then Knock The Smile Off My Face!"

- Rage Against The Machine

[pjkeeley]

[JPhillips]

I don't like people telling me I have to understand it or accept it the same way I accept hetereosexuality. I don't think homosexuals have a choice about their sexuality only because this is what I have been told and what I have read. I can't possibly know what anybody else really believes or feels since I can only truly understand the world from my point of view. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. I tend to want to believe that someone is being truthful when they explain to me why they think a certain way or act a certain way, even it is contrary to my thinking or the way I thing someone should behave. It all comes down to the right of the individual to be allowed to make personal choices as long as the rights of others aren't violated.

I don't believe homosexuality is really natural in the same sense as hetereosexuality. If it was, there would be children born from same sex marriages. It also isn't normal because men are physiologically compatible for sex with women, not men. Although homosexuality happens in the wild, it is an aberration of nature.

In my lifetime I have known homosexuals in the work place who I was comfortable being around as long as they kept that aspect of themselves personal and private. I am not a gay basher. I consider myself to be extremely tolerant of the choices and lifestyles of others. However, I find it offensive when gay men are openly flaunting their homosexuality in public or on television and behaving as if they are no different than hetereosexuals. When gays openly rebel and get offensive when they are not allowed to show public displays of affection I am also offended as I feel my sense of ethics and dignity is being violated. I actually don't have much respect for open displays of affection in public between hetereosexuals, but it does not make me uncomfortable in the same way.

No one should ever feel ashamed, embarrassed, or apologetic for their beliefs. It is the manner in which we express those beliefs that matters. If I offend someone on a personal level, after giving it some thought I may feel compelled to apologize. It does not mean I have changed my mind. so although I think it is unnatural to be gay, I don't feel I have the right to attack a gay person, any more than I would an alcoholic or drug addict, unless I have been personally affronted.

I hold a similar view with atheists and fundamentalists. I try to see things from their point of view. I disagree with both views and am acutely aware of the harm both views have caused on both individuals and society at large. I try, to the best of my ability, to blame the belief system and false education rather than to attack the person. That is all I expect from others who do not agree with my views on life.

[Homicidal Pacifist]

So, the following post was made quite a while ago, but because someone got their panties in a wad Scott deleted the entire thing. I think I made some good arguments though, so I'm editing it for your sensitive ears and eyes and posting it again.

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Alun said (among many good points), "But even in the most extreme translation, the bible doesn't claim God hates homosexuality."

Hate is perhaps too strong of a word, though maybe not. If one detests a thing does that not mean that one hates it?

Also, why would God command us to kill the gays if He simply did not like their behavior? The death penalty seems to be reserved for hate by God in this instance (at least to me).

But either way... why does God detest homosexuality?

O Tavern said, "This could mean that "sexual orientation" is controlled at least as much by social factors and stress than by a simple case of "natural inclination.""

I say, "Oh man, I'm really stressed out and society tells me that it's okay to be gay so I'm gonna start having sex with men for those reasons; not because I'm NATURALLY TURNED ON BY MEN." Nonsense. Are you straight because you are or are not stressed and because society approves or is it because you naturally/intriniscally love the ladies?

And consider hesitating a bit more before comparing the sexual habits of a monkey to a person. Monkeys also throw pooh.

O Tavern aslo said, "...there is evidence that certain chemicals (estrogens, hormones, etc.) in the environment have produced changes in the biochemistry..."

If it something in the air that caused homosexuality, I think we'd probably all be gay.

I said, "And asking a gay man to just abstain from making love his whole life is detrimental to the psyche and often results in a warped mutation of sexual behavior as demonstrated by many of the "celibate" priests of the Catholic church."

O Tavern said, "You thrive on unsubstantiated opinions."

I should have said CAN BE DETRIMENTAL instead of IS DETRIMENTAL. My bad. The comment I made about the priests was a goof to get a rise out of you. I am angered by anti-homosexual viewpoints and propanganda because I think they are unwarranted and prejudice, creating a kind of unfair segregation of civil rights.

Also, I know quite a lot about sexual abstinence though I haven't the time for it in this forum unless you beg.

I said, "So... maybe God doesn't hate the gays; only the "God" of the Bible. Maybe that "God" was created by men like the republicans to insight prejudice and bigotry onto a people they were uncomfortable around because they were homophobes and probably closet queers themselves."

O Tavern said, "I am disappointed by your level of "philosophic" thought in this post especially."

Well ya know, I thought I'd rev things up a bit with some insult humor. But note how I said "MAYBE..." rather than saying this was DEFINATELY the case. That could very well be what happened.

To repeat and clarify...
There are a lot of gay couples that are very happy and truely in love that make great parents and there are a lot of straight couples that are miserable together, in it for the money or whatever, and are terrible parents.

Here's a good reason to respect homosexuals and their sexual orientation and lifestyle: Because to do otherwise is bigotry and an infringement on their human and civil rights! No one is hurt and it can lead to a more fulfilling and enjoyable life.

Again, why doesn't the Bible say why homosexuality is a sin and detested by God?

Even if homosexuality is a red flag that a person's psychology or physiology has been tainted (which I consider a completey assanine thing to say by the way), that does not mean that we should deprive these people of their right to enter into a civil union.

Plus, if that is the case, why did God tell people to kill the gays if they were merely suffering from a psychological or physiological ailment?

Would you be saying all this if you happened to be a gay man?

Should society be allowed to strip you of the right to marry simply because you prefer the company of women?

O Tavern said, "Dismissing someone, who holds the view that homosexuality may be indicative of a problem, as "homophobic" is succumbing to bad logic. As you might write - zing! - whatever that means."

You're right. There are other reasons than just being homophobic. I didn't mention them because I was attempting to tongue-lash.

I ain't perfect.
_________________
"If Ignorance Is Bliss, Then Knock The Smile Off My Face!"

- Rage Against The Machine

[Palimere]

A response to both HP and Pjkeeley:

Why, when I mentioned the Bible's response to homosexuality, did you immediately assume I was refering to the book of Leviticus? Yes, Leviticus does tell us that homosexuality is wrong. But we are not under the Law (the old covenant), we are under the New Testament in Christ's blood (the new covenant).

We need to look at NEW TESTAMENT Scripture here. Romans 1:26-27 is a good example: "Rom 1:26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;
Rom 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. (Holy Bible, English Standard Version)."

now I know that you may say that this passage is a moot point, because it still comes from the Bible, and that the Bible is not a proven, credible source. But then we have a dillema: if we want to claim to know what God hates, we need to read what He says in His Scriptures. Otherwise, how will we know anything about Him? God does not give special revelation or prophecy anymore; everything we need to know, God has included in His Scriptiure for us.

I know that you are going to shoot down the Bible as uncredible, go ahead. I'm just curious as to how else you are going to know anything about God outside of it.

[JPhillips]

Palimere

You are limiting God to the one in the Christian Bible.
There are many other religions and there are also different views of Christianity.

On the other hand, there are atheists that look for any means they can find to assert that God is non-existent. There are those who wish to attack God and the belief in God by attacking Christianity. It is very easy to attack the Fundamentalist view of Christianity. Regardless, some think if they can show that God of the Christian Bible opposes their more reasonable, more tolerant, worldly view, this only proves that God was created by intolerant, unreasonable people and therefore is a fake.

[Alun]

[JPhillips]

Alun

I was using the word aberration to mean not normal rather than as in the way you described it. Although I may intrinsincally feel those things you said, I have purposely stayed away from defining it in that manner. Otherwise, I would have said abomination of nature.

I am not gay, so I don't waste a lot of time trying to decide if it is morally right or wrong since it does not effect my actions one way or another. As I tried to say, I do not shun or try to avoid gays, as I would a known Nazi, rapist, or child molester.

I don't feel I owe anybody an explanation as to why the sight of gays openly showing public affection gives me a sense of revulsion or disgust, anymore than I feel the need to give someone an explanation as to why the sight of seeing a beautiful woman makes me feel good. These are just unavoidable, natural reactions for me.

I seriously doubt that gays experience similar feelings of disgust or are equally offended by the public display of affection shown by hetereosexuals, at least not in the same sense.


ab·er·ra·tion (b-rshn)
n.
1. A deviation from the proper or expected course. See Synonyms at deviation.
2. A departure from the normal or typical: events that were aberrations from the norm.
3. Psychology A disorder or abnormal alteration in one's mental state.

[Alun]

Ok, so are you disgusted by amputees, meteors, penguins, and billionaires? All of these things are aberrations in that they are uncommon.
_________________
"I have nothing new to teach the world" -Mohandas "Mahatma" Gandhi

[JPhillips]

Alun

Yes I am disgusted in billionaires (not the others). There is a reason they are called the filthy rich.

Again, I did not say I was disgusted by gays; just the public display of affection by gays. I would rather they kept it private.

Sorry that I do not adhere to the mainstream thinking of the left. Acceptance of promiscuity, abortions for convenience, belief that gays are as normal as non-gays, belief in a createrless creation, and the right to have sexual intercourse with sheep because it feels good (I am sure this is coming because we keep moving the line that no one is supposed to cross over) - whatever, does not conform to my personal belief system.

I consider myself to be a tolerant person. However, there is a difference between tolerance and acceptance. I copied the following for you which makes the distinction between the two. You should go to the site and read the whole piece rather than just the part I copied. Hope this gets my point across. Regardless, I have enough self-confidence and a strong belief in my personal moral convictions to live with the condemnation of those who are offended or outraged when I disagree with them.

[Alun]