Eating Animals

Discuss morality and ethics in this message board.
Featured Article: Philosophical Analysis of Abortion, The Right to Life, and Murder
Post Reply
cynicallyinsane
Posts: 118
Joined: March 3rd, 2007, 11:58 am

Eating Animals

Post by cynicallyinsane »

Murder is immoral, right? So is it immoral to eat animals? We don't kill them in defense. It's murder. Right?
MyshiningOne
Posts: 202
Joined: March 7th, 2007, 9:51 pm

Re: Eating Animals

Post by MyshiningOne »

cynicallyinsane wrote:Murder is immoral, right? So, is it immoral to eat animals? We don't kill them in defense, it's murder. Right?
I used to have a problem with this. I was a vegetarian once. Some people do consider this murder,
but I don't really consider this murder since some
animals are meant to be eaten in many cultures.
Of course, in India it is illegal to eat beef, so I tend to think it sometimes depends on one's culture.
It's not what you know that makes
you smart, it's knowing what you don't know.
User avatar
pjkeeley
Posts: 695
Joined: April 10th, 2007, 8:41 am

Post by pjkeeley »

I dunno about you guys, but I've never 'murdered' an animal. When I buy meat, someone else has already done the killing for me.

:wink:
MyshiningOne
Posts: 202
Joined: March 7th, 2007, 9:51 pm

Post by MyshiningOne »

Hahahaha! That's clever!
It's not what you know that makes
you smart, it's knowing what you don't know.
cynicallyinsane
Posts: 118
Joined: March 3rd, 2007, 11:58 am

Post by cynicallyinsane »

But you pay them to kill the animal. How's the different than hiring a hitman to kill a person?
MyshiningOne
Posts: 202
Joined: March 7th, 2007, 9:51 pm

Post by MyshiningOne »

cynicallyinsane wrote:But you pay them to kill the animal. How's the different than hiring a hitman to kill a person?
I guess there is no technical difference. It depends on your own conviction I guess.
It's not what you know that makes
you smart, it's knowing what you don't know.
User avatar
pjkeeley
Posts: 695
Joined: April 10th, 2007, 8:41 am

Post by pjkeeley »

But you pay them to kill the animal. How's the different than hiring a hitman to kill a person?
It's a little different. It's not like I go to a hunter and ask "please sir, would you mind killing an animal for me to eat?" What happens is I go to a shop. There is meat there. I buy the meat. Whether or not I buy the meat, there will still be meat there which means there will still be animals being killed. If everyone gave up meat, then yes, there would be no meat industry. But that will never, ever happen. So what difference does it make if one less person is buying meat? (this is similar to the question about why vote)
DanteAzrael
Posts: 74
Joined: March 13th, 2007, 7:39 pm
Location: Winston-Salem, North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Eating Animals

Post by DanteAzrael »

cynicallyinsane wrote:Murder is immoral, right? So, is it immoral to eat animals? We don't kill them in defense, it's murder. Right?
I think first, one would have to believe that animal's lives are as important as human lives. Then, one would have to determine that animals have even near the same rights as humans (since they cannot recognize things that are beyond their conscious level.).

In general, we do not eat animals that are in scared supply (except for the extremely rich who pay the rather large sums to go hunting for animals like lions, etc.) We eat animals that we breed, that we bring up to be our food. It is a form of survival in both ways. One way, it gives us food. The second way, it keeps the animals away from endangering human lives.

As for us eating animals as a form of murder, it wouldn't really be a form of murder. Animals are not protected under the constitution and are not defined as creatures who have rights (why should they have rights when they cannot even recognize those rights? That is why murders are executed because they have violated someone else's right to life and have blatantly shown they do not recognize their own.) The only rights animals have is not to be tortured and abused. I don't think slaughtering animals is a form fo abuse (though there are some cases, once in awhile, that they do horrible things...PETA enjoys exploiting this as much as they can...even when it's decades old!)

You cannot apply the same rights that humans have to animals. I know...Animals are important to the ecosystem...Then again, we seem to breed so many...we're not hurting the ecosystem...and at the same time...we get delicious meals of meat :D

Still...I guess the question should be "Do animals have the same rights as humans? Should they? Why so? How could they?"
When a man declares: "There are no blacks and whites [in morality]" he is making a psychological confession, and what he means is: "I am unwilling to be wholly good—and please don't regard me as wholly evil!" - Ayn Rand
Stoan
Posts: 9
Joined: March 19th, 2007, 11:15 pm

Post by Stoan »

I think the major thing PETA bases this argument on is the fact of whether or not the animal can feel pain and/or fear. That particular take depends on how much you know about animal anatomy. Taking the stand that mammals can feel pain may yield other conclusions.
medicore_fluff
Posts: 11
Joined: July 9th, 2007, 11:55 am
Location: Wales

Post by medicore_fluff »

It's not murder when you kill something to eat it.

However when you devise a conveyor belt system to treat animals as a source of just mass feeding(or LIVEstock) and keep them in appalling conditions throughout...then it starts to become apparant that just because it's not murder doesn't mean its entirely right.

We aren't allowed to eat people, we aren't allowed to eat a lot of other animals...Think of it like that. Livestock is born to be eaten.

I'm waiting for the day when the aliens come down and announce the entire planet Earth was just a big farm and now it's time for them to tuck in.

Haha.
Lao Tzu
Posts: 4
Joined: August 11th, 2007, 5:43 pm

Post by Lao Tzu »

1) By eating animals such as chickens you're actually saving their species(Chickens never became extinct because the are a primary source of food and are breed constantly), so if we just stop eating them and realese them they would surely die.

2) If eating animals who only act out of instiinct is immoral, so is eating plants.

3) We eat so we can live and thrive so without eating plants or animals (see 2) we would surely die.
User avatar
Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
The admin formerly known as Scott
Posts: 5748
Joined: January 20th, 2007, 6:24 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
Contact:

Post by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes »

Factory farmers stuff chickens into tight windowless quarters where the chickens get so depressed and irritated that they start killing each other. Also, the poor living conditions cause an increase in illness and death. The farmers do this because they make more money that way. Even though they make less money per chicken (since more are dying and getting sick), they make more money per square-foot of space. They spend save more money then they lose by not putting money towards factory space and general care.

Also, here's two quotes about animals:

"He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." -Immanuel Kant

"Whatever my own practice may be, I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other when they came in contact with the more civilized." -Henry David Thoreau
My entire political philosophy summed up in one tweet.

"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."

I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
elalala
Posts: 2
Joined: September 9th, 2007, 5:01 pm

Post by elalala »

Its true that animals have feelings and suffer with the same grimace we do, perhaps a bit less since we have the innate ability to rub the salty balm of self-pity into our wounds as well, but to say that purchasing meat from the butcher is murder from that platform would make a person morally hog-tied from eating anything at all. Plants also have been proven to emote and suffer.

What is the solution here?..It seems this has less to do with meat or animals and more to do with a people longing for the grand resurgence of Compassionate Ethics in a community, in a society, in a world. Perhaps the real first step to creating that begins as Gandhi said, not in the world, not in the society, not in the community, not in the family, but in the individual who influences the family, who influences the community, who influences the society, who influences the world.

All we can do is all we can do. Be as kind and compassionate to all animals and organisms as the heart desires. If eating meat seems morally straining, dont eat it. There is Leadership ocurring with such actions. We are always influencing others at deep levels that are not even realized. And such people, with such positive influence make the world a better place as the pebble that caused the ripple creates the tsunami...Thank God for you;)
sweetbabyj
Posts: 4
Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:47 pm

RE:Eating Animals

Post by sweetbabyj »

This seems almost like a definition problem to me. In legal terms Murder means a very specific thing,namely to kill another with malice and forethought. That malice part is the bit that we're getting hung up on here. Malice is the deliberate desire to cause pain or harm. It seems to me that the goal when killing an animal for food is not causing pain. It is creating food.
If the question we are debating is "is it moral to eat animals", well that opens an entire different line of discussion.
The argument I find compelling is we don't stand in moral judgment over animals for killing other animals for sustenance, so why judge our own meat eating ways. All said and done, we humans are really just a rather clever animal. Our brains are well developed, but we are biologically mammals, just like myriad other animals. Why do we find to need to say that it is wrong for one type of animal to kill for food(namely us) but not wrong for another(lions).
In short we are alive so we eat. Biologically we have evolved as omnivores so we eat meat as well as vegetation. Calling our very nature into moral question is a path towards madness.
I think it's a better line of inquiry to wonder if our ways of raising animals have strayed off a moral path.
That all being said, I do salute those that abstain from eating meat for moral reasons. Few people have the strength to live by their moral convictions, and those that do are to be commended. Or at least admired for their drive.
User avatar
pjkeeley
Posts: 695
Joined: April 10th, 2007, 8:41 am

Post by pjkeeley »

Why do we find to need to say that it is wrong for one type of animal to kill for food(namely us) but not wrong for another(lions).
The difference is obvious. Lions can't decide not to kill other animals. We can.
Calling our very nature into moral question is a path towards madness.
It's natural for a man to want to rape a woman. Animals rape each other all the time. So does that mean we should commit rape? Would it be 'madness' to question whether rape is moral?

BTW I eat meat, I'm just pointing out flaws in your argument.
Post Reply

Return to “Ethics and Morality”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021