Does Meditation work?

Perhaps the mind replicates the abstract influence of being on dry land and swimming in a deep ocean.

The more you are grounded; the less immersed you become.

The less you are grounded; the more immersed you become.

You cannot know if your independent self lives after you die. So saying your independent self doesn't live after you die is just a opinion of yours since you cannot know one way or another.

There is no absolute certainty even for things that we 'know' while we are alive. As such, how much credibility can one expect from speculation of matters after death, of souls, heaven, 72 virgins, eternal life and the likes. If it accepted that one can speculate on anything just because one do not know what could happen after death, then anything goes. This is where the scam, snake oils, cons, lies, violence, intolerance, abuse creep into humanity along with the selfish psychological security blanket to the terrified self.

On the question of independent self after death, based on the empirical and rationaliy, I am 99% certain (based on philosophical rationality), the self do not live after physical death.
If you claim positively the self survives after death, and as a conventional standard, you will have to prove it.

If you want to go ahead and take your Pascal's wager on the soul existing after death, then go ahead, however, you have to make a provision that it is a necessary vital lie without empirical proofs and exercise of reasonable reason.

Where meditation works effectively, there is no need for vital lies to comfort the terror from he self-awareness one's inevtiable death and the yearning for immortality. Meditation (effective) is Carpe Diem rather than wasting energy worring and being anxious for a non-existence after life.

What proof do you have that the soul doesn't live after death? Agnosticism makes more sense than atheism. How can you proof 99% that your claim is true? Where is your proof for your claim? Meditation doesn't work. It is superstitious. There is no proof meditation works. There is no proof that people can tell themselves through meditation to be happy, and they will automatically be happy. There is no proof that you can move your neurons in your brain by thinking. You are using meditation as a security blanket for yourself. So if someone wants to use religion as a security blanket for themselves they should be allowed to because people who believe in meditation use a security blanket for themselves as well.

Windy theres a clear distinction between the probability of the positive effects of meditation and the existence of a soul.

I can by induction make the assumption that the sun will rise tomorrow, based on my past experience and on the scientific laws underlying it's probability. It's a matter of probability, and that's why it makes more sense being an atheist than an agnostic or religious person. It makes more sense in the means of probability, and you're no exception, all your everyday conduct or ways of acting are based on these principles.

The soul or the reality of the consciousness. These are metaphysics. Speculations. When you're speculating in these terms you have no empirical foundation, and almost all the grounds for what humans believe are due to exactly that, empirical evidence or inductive knowledge. When you chose to place your faith in something which is completely speculative and groundless, it's just that; faith. And I'm not saying faith necessarily is a bad thing, people have their own individual experience of things, and place their beliefs thereafter, but you have to understand why people with no such experience chose a skeptical standpoint on the matter. For them it's groundless assertions just like the assertion: "the sun's is not going to rise tomorrow". Because it's contradicting to their inductive/probabilistic/empirical approach towards reality, life, and their everyday conduct in general. Then one might as well worry the sky's going to fall down tomorrow, you can't disprove it, the laws of nature might suddenly change for what we know, but it's unlikely, and I don't believe you go around worrying about that. -- Some might, but then again, that's going to be based on faith.

Meditation has hundreds of scientific research papers made by different neuro-scientists showing its potential impact on the human mind. There's empirical evidence for it, it's still much to uncover, but still. It's strongly indicating a visible impact. You can play the "you can't be sure-card" in so many circumstances it's not even an argument, it comes down to probability, and for me it seems kind of hypocritical when most of your beliefs and so on are based on probability, and to then use those almost non-existent decimals of probability weighing against something when it suits you is a cheap-shot the way I see it.

Acknowledge that your faith is a faith and that theres a clear distinction between that and the benefits of meditation which has much more evidence in favor of its actuality. One is from a neutral standpoint irrational, the other is rational, based on the existing evidence. I don't judge people having faith, there might be much more "between heaven and earth" than we know of, however our everyday life's based on pure inductive and empirical knowledge, so those beliefs and faiths has to belong to every individual, because there's as of now at least, nothing supporting those faiths except ones own personal experience and belief which in the end only can be self-convincing or self-assuring.

What proof do you have that the soul doesn't live after death?

Proving a negative?

Agnosticism makes more sense than atheism. How can you proof 99% that your claim is true? Where is your proof for your claim?

Simple induction. Billions of humans had died since homo-sapiens emerged on Earth. Since then, there are no evidences of their soul surviving after death. There are stories of reincarnations and rebirths, but these are mere stories. If billions of humans had died, why it is so difficult to produce convincing evidences of any souls that survived. At best, your hypothesis of soul surviving after death is based on pure reason, imagination and speculation.

Meditation doesn't work. It is superstitious. There is no proof meditation works. There is no proof that people can tell themselves through meditation to be happy, and they will automatically be happy. There is no proof that you can move your neurons in your brain by thinking. You are using meditation as a security blanket for yourself. So if someone wants to use religion as a security blanket for themselves they should be allowed to because people who believe in meditation use a security blanket for themselves as well.

In relation to this point, note Vojos very well presented answer above. In addition, I had provided links in this thread of evidences that meditation does work positively. It is also very easy for anyone to experiment on it and verify it based on personal experiences.

Windy theres a clear distinction between the probability of the positive effects of meditation and the existence of a soul.

I can by induction make the assumption that the sun will rise tomorrow, based on my past experience and on the scientific laws underlying it's probability. It's a matter of probability, and that's why it makes more sense being an atheist than an agnostic or religious person. It makes more sense in the means of probability, and you're no exception, all your everyday conduct or ways of acting are based on these principles.

The soul or the reality of the consciousness. These are metaphysics. Speculations. When you're speculating in these terms you have no empirical foundation, and almost all the grounds for what humans believe are due to exactly that, empirical evidence or inductive knowledge. When you chose to place your faith in something which is completely speculative and groundless, it's just that; faith. And I'm not saying faith necessarily is a bad thing, people have their own individual experience of things, and place their beliefs thereafter, but you have to understand why people with no such experience chose a skeptical standpoint on the matter. For them it's groundless assertions just like the assertion: "the sun's is not going to rise tomorrow". Because it's contradicting to their inductive/probabilistic/empirical approach towards reality, life, and their everyday conduct in general. Then one might as well worry the sky's going to fall down tomorrow, you can't disprove it, the laws of nature might suddenly change for what we know, but it's unlikely, and I don't believe you go around worrying about that. -- Some might, but then again, that's going to be based on faith.

Meditation has hundreds of scientific research papers made by different neuro-scientists showing its potential impact on the human mind. There's empirical evidence for it, it's still much to uncover, but still. It's strongly indicating a visible impact. You can play the "you can't be sure-card" in so many circumstances it's not even an argument, it comes down to probability, and for me it seems kind of hypocritical when most of your beliefs and so on are based on probability, and to then use those almost non-existent decimals of probability weighing against something when it suits you is a cheap-shot the way I see it.

Acknowledge that your faith is a faith and that theres a clear distinction between that and the benefits of meditation which has much more evidence in favor of its actuality. One is from a neutral standpoint irrational, the other is rational, based on the existing evidence. I don't judge people having faith, there might be much more "between heaven and earth" than we know of, however our everyday life's based on pure inductive and empirical knowledge, so those beliefs and faiths has to belong to every individual, because there's as of now at least, nothing supporting those faiths except ones own personal experience and belief which in the end only can be self-convincing or self-assuring.

Science is not a for sure thing. Meditation does not work for me. Dr Amen's book "Use Your Brain change your age" is a incorrect notion. First he mentions that you can outsmart your genes and put brakes on aging. If that was true you should be able to avoid aging at all or even dying. You say I cannot prove that the soul lives on in the afterlife. That is true, but you cannot prove meditation even works, or that there is a connection between the results of meditation and the meditation itself. The results of the patients could be due to some other cause besides the meditation. You cannot link the results from meditation to meditation being the cause of the results. It is more rational not to believe in meditation. Meditation is a matter of faith instead of proof for you guys. You guys believe what you want. I don't care. Meditation is superstitious and doesn't work, and I am open to others opinions, but none of these arguments has won me over. Believe whatever you want. I have nothing more to say.

Does meditation work?

It depends on what kind of "work" you're referring to & what is desired.

...and if so how does it work? What does it do for you?

What are the most recommended forms of meditation?

Some meditate by fishing, dancing or doing something. Some simply focus on being. IMO, the most effective & quick way of metitating is to breathing deeply & consciously.

How does it differ from mindfulness?

Mindfullness is focusing on the tool of the mind. Meditation is more about learning to be, to experience without too much distraction of thought.

What would be the best form for someone not wanting to spend five years sitting on a mountain studying Buddhism?

Breath deeply, as often as possible. Yoga & good yoga instructors have helped me.

I have never seriously tried meditation. I appreciate what it is attempting to achieve, to remain calm, relaxed, in peace, in harmony, in this life. As I suffered from very severe generalised anxiety disorder, to overcome this I simply secured the body. Basically I took the body to what it feared and gradually removed the fear in the body. It soon learned to remain calm and in peace in those situations. I took it to a point where having been conned by a bandit on the streets I was able to regain my goods. It got nasty he headbutted me, threw a glass of beer over me, but I remained calm in my demands for my goods and he returned them to me. I did find out that this bandit had been in prison for GBH.

I have never seriously tried meditation. I appreciate what it is attempting to achieve, to remain calm, relaxed, in peace, in harmony, in this life. As I suffered from very severe generalised anxiety disorder, to overcome this I simply secured the body. Basically I took the body to what it feared and gradually removed the fear in the body. It soon learned to remain calm and in peace in those situations. I took it to a point where having been conned by a bandit on the streets I was able to regain my goods. It got nasty he headbutted me, threw a glass of beer over me, but I remained calm in my demands for my goods and he returned them to me. I did find out that this bandit had been in prison for GBH.

A person being able to meditate doesn't make sense. You are always aware of something. A person cannot just shut their mind off. The concept just doesn't make any sense. You would always be aware of trying to shut your mind off. So if you told yourself to be calm and happy in a negative situtation you actually couldn't feel calm and happy in a negative situation. The brain works on flight or flight response. You could try to put on a mask and act calm like it didn't bother you that the guy threw his beer on you, but you would actually be mad as hell at him. It takes a lot of effort not to lose your cool, and say throw a glass of beer back at him.

A person being able to meditate doesn't make sense. You are always aware of something. A person cannot just shut their mind off. The concept just doesn't make any sense. You would always be aware of trying to shut your mind off. So if you told yourself to be calm and happy in a negative situtation you actually couldn't feel calm and happy in a negative situation. The brain works on flight or flight response. You could try to put on a mask and act calm like it didn't bother you that the guy threw his beer on you, but you would actually be mad as hell at him. It takes a lot of effort not to lose your cool, and say throw a glass of beer back at him.

I have not read enough about meditation or tried it to be able to state categorically whether it makes sense or not. It seems to me that if meditation has been around for a long time, it must work, but like all, it needs constant practice to obtain the benefits of it.

As far as the anecdote goes. The brain does work on a flight or fight response, but you can retrain that so that it does not get the best out of you. In my particular case I have always been a very peaceful person who run away from confrontation. So gradually I have retrained the brain so that it does not automatically take the flight response which it used to do. So I confronted the situation and obtained my goods back. Actually after that I sat in a separate place and my hands were shaking terribly. I know that if I ever go through that again, I will regain the goods, and my hands will not be shaking terribly. And the same can be applied to the reverse, if in an individual the brain response is to immediately fight it can be retrained so as not to lose its cool.

Imagine this fellow and how his brain response is fight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18831203

I have not read enough about meditation or tried it to be able to state categorically whether it makes sense or not. It seems to me that if meditation has been around for a long time, it must work, but like all, it needs constant practice to obtain the benefits of it.

As far as the anecdote goes. The brain does work on a flight or fight response, but you can retrain that so that it does not get the best out of you. In my particular case I have always been a very peaceful person who run away from confrontation. So gradually I have retrained the brain so that it does not automatically take the flight response which it used to do. So I confronted the situation and obtained my goods back. Actually after that I sat in a separate place and my hands were shaking terribly. I know that if I ever go through that again, I will regain the goods, and my hands will not be shaking terribly. And the same can be applied to the reverse, if in an individual the brain response is to immediately fight it can be retrained so as not to lose its cool.

Imagine this fellow and how his brain response is fight.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18831203

I have been meditating for a long time, and I know that meditation does work within its various perspective. It is not a panacea for all mental problems.
The brain has appx. 100 billion neurons each with up to 10,000 synapses. Just imagine the trillions, trillions and trillions of the possible connectivities.
Meditation is one approach amongst others to maintain an overall efficient activations and connectivities of all the trillions of neurons the brain and to improve on some specific connectivities.

One of the first improvement from any meditation is the modulation of the primal flight and fight response. Humans cannot and should not get rid of the instinctive primal neural circuits of the 'flight or flight' response, and beside it is very essential to facilitate survival.

As I had mentioned somewhere, the circuitry of the flight or fight is like the raw Yangtze River. If unmodulated, the Yangtze will cause terrible flooding and disasters. Thus to modulate the Yangtze, it is necessary to built inhibitors, i.e. dams to hold back and direct its raw forces to good use that will benefit the human around it.

Similarly, meditation practices are designed to modulate the flight or fight response initially before further improvements can be done to other specific neural connectivities. In meditation, one do various exercise that will built neural inhibitors (dams) that will inhibit the surge of the flight or fight response when it is triggered. This inhibitors from the higher brain will dampen and stall the raw surges to enable the higher brain to act in parallel and make better decisions.
If without such inhibitors as developed via meditation or otherwise, it will be an impulsive flight or fight ending with a murder as in the case of the link you provided.

For meditation to be effective, there must be proper practices, positive changes and real connectivities of the neurons. These inhibitors will increase in effectiveness with practices by preventing atrophy.

...... Humans cannot and should not get rid of the instinctive primal neural circuits of the 'flight or flight' response, and beside it is very essential to facilitate survival. .......

Thanks, and from what you describe meditation techniques have evolved much. This instinctive primal neural circuits seems to be very different in all of us.

Thanks, and from what you describe meditation techniques have evolved much. This instinctive primal neural circuits seems to be very different in all of us.

The basic circuit of the flight and fight response is generic in all human beings as the digestive system, the reproductive, respiratory, and the likes. It is only the subsequent responses that follow that is different in all of us.

The basic circuit of the flight and fight response is generic in all human beings as the digestive system, the reproductive, respiratory, and the likes. It is only the subsequent responses that follow that is different in all of us.

I am not sure about this, because in my case this drove me to run away to a mountain, over 3,000 metres high. As I said I was an incredibly peaceful person who simply run away from the conflict. It was quite crazy how I run away from it all. One aspect is to stand back a little, another is to shoot up a 3,000 metres high mountain.

I am not sure about this, because in my case this drove me to run away to a mountain, over 3,000 metres high. As I said I was an incredibly peaceful person who simply run away from the conflict. It was quite crazy how I run away from it all. One aspect is to stand back a little, another is to shoot up a 3,000 metres high mountain.

As I had implied, the machinery of 'flight or fight' is the same for all human beings and this is programmed in our DNA.

The primary activities of the 'flight and fight' circuit are the same for all, but the secondary activities will vary from individuals to individuals due to nurturing and other factors. Your running away to a mountain is the secondary activities that are different from others. Other individuals may do other secondary activities after a surge of the flight or fight respone, like listening to music, engage in other activities or take drugs.

In any flight or fight response, the body is flooded with all sorts of chemicals and activated in preparation for a 'flight' or a 'fight'. If these chemicals are not burned out or allow to subside, they can become poisons to the body. As such running to mountain is a subconscious way to get rid of those poisons and preventing further compounding effects of more potential poisons to be generated in the body. So you did the right thing, but is that effective if one were to face more 'fight or flight' responses, especially apparent ones.

In one perspective, meditation also enable one to 'run away' to avoid the accumulation of poisons from a natural flight or fight response, and also preventing a maximum surge and full fledge 'flight or fight' response. The difference is, instead of external physical solution, the meditator does all these solution and preventions within the brain and mind.

.....In one perspective, meditation also enable one to 'run away' to avoid the accumulation of poisons from a natural flight or fight response, and also preventing a maximum surge and full fledge 'flight or fight' response. The difference is, instead of external physical solution, the meditator does all these solution and preventions within the brain and mind.

Well I would not call this running away, I would call this addressing the issue in as efficient manner as possible. The important aspect is to realise why we run away to drugs, or listening music, or alcohol, or running up a mountain and change that. Maybe one day I will try meditation, but at present I have changed that with physical activities that remove the fear as fast as possible. I no longer run up a mountain.