God is a concept built to manage the sub-conscious

The sub-conscious part of the brain guides humans through their life phases in much the same way as other species are guided by their sub-conscious. However we humans have in addition a conscious brain which at times struggles to be happy with the directions coming from the sub-conscious brain. So we create a concept to better manage the emotions, desires, etc coming from the sub-conscious - the concept of god(s). The sub-conscious is at least similar across people in the way that other human features are similar, and so we find unconnected peoples all worshipping similar gods. As the sub-conscious has evolved over millions of years, it IS 'ancient, wise beyond our conscious understanding, and all-powerful' (as mentioned in the Bible). Externalising the perception of god has proven counter-productive, as it leads to many different versions, none of which correspond to real external entities.

[Scott]

Are you saying non-human animals don't have a conscious but only a subconscious mind?

Aren't the subconscious and unconscious impulses -- emotions, desires, etc. -- that conflict with our conscious usually the ones that we deride? Isn't that why we suppress them into the subconscious in the first place? Like the impulse for a child to sleep with his parents, as Freud would argue. If the various ideas of god(s) across cultures was an attempt to explain the subconscious, wouldn't people think this god wanted them to sleep with their parents, for instance?

I think the advantage that humans derive from having a conscious (as compared to say spiders that only have a sub-conscious) is that humans can at times over-ride their sub-conscious and obtain consequent darwinian benefits. However this over-riding is a tricky business because at times it is the 'right thing' to follow the emotion/desire as recommended by the sub-conscious, and other times it is not. Most religions have a devil or devil equivalent in addition to god to try to distinguish between 'good' sub-conscious commands (god given) and 'bad' sub-conscious commands (devil given). I have yet to study Freud; however, I would note that a baby's conscious is weak, and that there were probably survival benefits for a child to sleep with its parents in the millenia of prehistory (prowling leopards, snakes, etc.).

[Scott]

By sleep with, I meant have sex with.

Do you have more information about spiders? How can one have a subconscious without a conscious?

The sex thing seems silly to me, supported by neither the conscious nor the sub-conscious. Spiders only have a pin-head size brain, and they just persevere with their spider techniques whatever happens. As you move 'up' through larger brain sizes - birds, dogs ..., degrees of consciousness creep in.

The sub-conscious part of the brain guides humans through their life phases in much the same way as other species are guided by their sub-conscious. However we humans have in addition a conscious brain which at times struggles to be happy with the directions coming from the sub-conscious brain. So we create a concept to better manage the emotions, desires, etc coming from the sub-conscious - the concept of god(s). The sub-conscious is at least similar across people in the way that other human features are similar, and so we find unconnected peoples all worshipping similar gods. As the sub-conscious has evolved over millions of years, it IS 'ancient, wise beyond our conscious understanding, and all-powerful' (as mentioned in the Bible). Externalising the perception of god has proven counter-productive, as it leads to many different versions, none of which correspond to real external entities.

I'd love to agree on the face of it, but I suspect it might be more complex than this. I'm also not aware of any studies which might demonstrate levels of consciousness and subconsciousness in animals. I could go some way toward agreeing that the more complex the lifeform, the more likely it is to have developed aspects of consciousness I suppose, based loosely on Process Theory (Alfred North Whithead).

I'm not sure how spiders think.

I can think of a few reasons for needing to invent a deity such as to satisfy the human need to find meaning (Viktor Frankl), assigning blame for hardship, inventing doctrine, religious law or ritual to control the masses, provide comfort (Lloyd Geering), give a focul point for a social group to strengthen their potential for survival by increasing ties through religion (Jonathan Haidt). I think Carl Jung talked about the usefulness for those in need of it of believing in a god and submitting to the higher power, and then working with that god to overcome addiction or in some cases mental disorders. I believe this was how the AA movement started, after Jung wrote a letter to the founder of that movement about this topic.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/jungletter.html

(excuse the music!)

Paul

My driving reason for this theory is that humans are somehow guided through life processes not dissimilar to those of a spider, but yet somehow our conscious 'we' is not very aware of the directions somehow being followed. There is a part of our brain which is pushing us through our human life phases - so god enters. Note that the sub-conscious builds the virtual reality that our conscious lives in, and so the sub-conscious is in fact 'all-powerful' as well as ancient and loving.

-- Updated May 31st, 2012, 5:03 pm to add the following --

I have used god as the construct to appeal to those facing Christian/Jewish/Muslim religions, but other religious threads have multi-gods and/or multi-spirits. Even Jewish derived religions do not spurn the devil and other spirits. All these are slightly different constructs to better live with the sub-conscious. God/the spirit world is not pure invention, it is trying to attach a label to what humans actually experience from their sub-conscious.

-- Updated June 2nd, 2012, 9:27 pm to add the following --

By sleep with, I meant have sex with.

Do you have more information about spiders? How can one have a subconscious without a conscious?

Having now read a bit of Freud, I better understand your comment. However I would argue that whilst Freud was the first psychologist and he went where no man had been before, our understanding has progressed beyond his 'first-cut' id (or unconscious). For instance, behaviours encouraged by our unconscious include group behaviour, pair-bonding and child support. Also I think some of Freud's conclusions were biassed because as a psychologist doctor he was seeing sick people regularly. Consciousness may have arisen as a way of dealing with the huge number of behavioural possibilities being generated by complex unconsciouses.