Why Atheism Cannot Be Logically Supported

Since Atheist (which i have no problem with, only theistic's), only believe in the physical world and nothing outside of it. they are saying we as a species are nothing more than sophisticated bacteria, they are also saying since everything has a reason/purpose of existing the only thing that does not is the physical world (which contradicts the previous). It is true (i believe this), that we are nothing more than a sophisticated bacteria but that's only our physical reason why our form is in the physical world, when you understand and add in the mental and heavenly worlds. You start to see our mental purpose/reason why our form is in the physical world, it allows this vehicle and the driver to be tested (greed, hatred, jealousy, pride, will, attachments....)

Since Atheist (which i have no problem with, only theistic's), only believe in the physical world and nothing outside of it. they are saying we as a species are nothing more than sophisticated bacteria, they are also saying since everything has a reason/purpose of existing the only thing that does not is the physical world (which contradicts the previous).

Good point. There's no even acknowledgement that the answer to "WHY" we & this universe exist, hasn't been answered. It's as if they don't care... & yet they do because every day, we all (including Atheists) do things for "reasons." "Nature does nothing in vain." -Aristotle

It is true (i believe this), that we are nothing more than a sophisticated bacteria but that's only our physical reason why our form is in the physical world, when you understand and add in the mental and heavenly worlds. You start to see our mental purpose/reason why our form is in the physical world, it allows this vehicle and the driver to be tested (greed, hatred, jealousy, pride, will, attachments....)

Will you expand on what you mean by this? I realize I'm opening a huge topic... but I'm curious, as to how you see energy in relating to feelings like greed, hatred etc.?

let start at, kinda like i said with there are three worlds each having there different type of energy. Heavenly world energy, mental world energy, and then physical world energy. For instance since we are currently in the physical world, we understand somewhat on how the physical energy is formed, quarks/ electrons to proton to atoms then to molecules.. and even then we are just starting to understand beyond the quark and electron, as in particles and so forth. Now that's just the energy that the physical world uses, add that with a formula and you get what we see today as our universe and beyond. Just like in chemistry class, you need energy (materials/elements) and you also need a formula to arrange those energies together. Who created that formula, we'll get to that later.

Just like the physical world, the mental world would be set up the same but with different energies and different formula, same as the heavenly world.

With energies relating to our feelings like greed and hatred ect., those are mental. While in the physical world, we have two features, physical and mental. Physical aspects is our bodies made from physical energies. And mental aspects is what we call our souls. Even though our souls are made from energies from the heavenly world, when it is the driver of our physical bodies, then I call it our mental aspect.(maybe i should refer to it as our heavenly aspect?what do you think).

Now with the feelings and hatred.., its kinda like how our physical bodies will go through hard ship, and so will our mental(heavenly) aspects of ourselves. for instance, your awareness of the things in life that bring hardship to your physical body(poisoning species, toxic plants, deadly things basically), and avoiding or passing the test that those bring to you will make you live longer/..better body. Same thing with being aware of things in life that bring hardship to your soul or mental makeup of yourself (hatred, jealously, attachment...). Pass those test to those hardships your mental (heavenly) aspect endure, it will create a better person, life will be easier on you mentally.

the better you take care of yourself, most likely the longer you will stay in the physical world, the better you take care of your mental (heavenly )self, the quicker you get out of the cycle of reincarnation (back and forth to physical and mental worlds) and into the heavenly worlds.

BaruchSpinoza wrote:

Using the word to describe this, is an abuse of language. It pretends something for which there can not be an established thing. It seems vague, diffuse, and vacuous, and the origins of the word have always referred to god, gods, demons, spirits, bug-bears, and fairies, and all manner of things beyond the physical realm, when what YOU have is an internal feeling, no more..

PS... and who is "WE", is that the Royal "WE"?

The evidence for "this capacity or potentiality," comes from what people experience internally, and the significance which it has on their being, existence, and actualization. As far as its concerned here it doesn't matter whether the posited object of the potentiality exists or not. It is a capacity to apprehend transcendent truth, justice, love, being, beauty, and goodness, to internally ascend to it, connect with it and this all has significant effects on many different parts of us,To deny all of this and say its not a "this," is to ignore a large part of the reality of human nature. If your evaluation of realty does not take into account the phenomena people internally experience, then I can see why you come to the conclusions which you come to. All of these are internal phenomena, many of which are involved in being further actualized by the internal movement toward the transcendent goods: love, hope, emotion, the capacity for empathy, the contemplating of a scientific correlation, wonder, and beauty. Do you not believe that understanding our internal movement of love is significant to understanding our nature?

The "WE," has to do with OUR observing of the nature and characteristics of an undeniable human phenomena, regardless of what its object is.

BaruchSpinoza wrote:


The "WE," has to do with OUR observing of the nature and characteristics of an undeniable human phenomena, regardless of what its object is.

I did not know you had the ability to speak for the whole humans race. Nor can I see how you have the authority to collect the diverse subjective experiences and apply the archaic term "divine" to them.

With energies relating to our feelings like greed and hatred ect., those are mental.

These are not energies, these are emotions and they feed into us and control us. Anger, turns, into hate, and greed. Compassion turns into altruism. All of that is bad for everyone.

-- Updated July 28th, 2012, 9:15 am to add the following --

Did you ever pray to God that this one day be gone?

Never. I remember one night bent over the bath with a throat burning from 6 weeks of radiotherapy, vomiting up acid across my already painful throat, too weak to breath properly - I did think that if I had a button to make myself disappear for ever I would have pressed it right then.

Praying to god would have been a denial of myself, and a contradiction. An omnipotent, omniscient being, ahs to be causing my suffering - so what good would prayer do? He has to know how I feel, so why not end it for me now? Why give him the satisfaction?

I cannot empathize with you because I have never had radiotherapy, I have never gone through the same experience, I can only think how terrible it must have been.

Would you consider God putting you to the test so you would regain your faith in him? You had abandoned God, but he never had abandoned you?

I cannot empathize with you because I have never had radiotherapy, I have never gone through the same experience, I can only think how terrible it must have been.

Would you consider God putting you to the test so you would regain your faith in him? You had abandoned God, but he never had abandoned you?

Image the worst sor throat you have ever had x10 - or the worst burn you have suffered but the pain is in your throat. Now imagine that raw burned flesh being hit by stomach acid - that puts you in the picture. oh - and with the fear that things might get worse and lead to death.

What kind a sick god would give that pain in the hope that I would love him again?

Additionally if that god's claim to be omniscient, then he must already know his plan to make me love him will not work. I can only conclude that either god does not exist or his character is such that I could never love such a things as him.

I'd love you to respond to this point by point, as I am always puzzled by Theists.

...the better you take care of yourself, most likely the longer you will stay in the physical world, the better you take care of your mental (heavenly )self, the quicker you get out of the cycle of reincarnation (back and forth to physical and mental worlds) and into the heavenly worlds.

Thanks for expanding on that, Teacher4U. Although I have much yet to learn about Metaphysics, it seems obvious that what we think & feel affects our physiology. IE: People who are deeply hypnotized can be made to physically change temperatures, just by believing it subconsciously. The subconscious is something that really intrigues me. It seems to be the window into other diimensions & possibilities!

-- Updated July 28th, 2012, 9:20 am to add the following --

What kind a sick god would give that pain in the hope that I would love him again?

Additionally if that god's claim to be omniscient, then he must already know his plan to make me love him will not work. I can only conclude that either god does not exist or his character is such that I could never love such a things as him.

I'd love you to respond to this point by point, as I am always puzzled by Theists.

I don't consider myself an orthodox Theists, but I do believe in some theology that makes sense to me. So, please allow me to puzzle you.

In theology it states, "In the beginning God created the heaven & the earth. And the earth was without form, & void; & darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: & there was light." -Genesis 1:1-3

Before there was light, it was dark. Most people consider God as only that which is light & GOoD, not evil, or what we deem dark/bad. Yet, it says even in theology that God is BOTH. God created all - including good & evil (or what we deem such). Who is God? I'd say God is the creative energy that made it possible for us all to exist... & overall, it's all good. Yet, in order for it to be truly good, it must be capable of bad (or the opposite). If we never died, life would have less meaning.

They say, "Truth happens." If we could have a very clear understanding of all possibilities & states, we'd be able to understand why thing happen & where it looks like certain things are headed in the future, if they continue on the set course. Yet, we don't have much understanding of this. Most people still limit truth to what science dictates, when there are much deeper, more dynamic layers of truth.

It's understandable to get angry at God for not giving a crap about so much suffering, especially if we believe God to be all knowing & all powerful. Why doesn't he DO SOMETHING? I have to go back to the idea that God is not a being outside of us... God is like dark energy that permeates everything, including us. God is not limited to a form, but is rather a motivating, creative energy. When we pray to God, it mostly affects us... We are asking the intuitive part of us (subconscious) to discover & pursue a better way. We are also hoping that the intuitive part of others will also strive for this better way. If that fails to deliver what we hoped & as a result we suffer, it is not the creative prinicple/energy that failed, but rather it is the failure to put to use this creative energy in the best possible way. This could be due to many factors & blame often gives away one's response-ability & the very power needed to improve conditions.

I don't consider myself an orthodox Theists, but I do believe in some theology that makes sense to me. So, please allow me to puzzle you.

In theology it states,-Genesis 1:1-3...his could be due to many factors & blame often gives away one's response-ability & the very power needed to improve conditions.

You misunderstand I am not in the slightest puzzled about god, nor an I angry with him. Its the theist position that is confused and yours also exemplifies this.

But my thoughts were directed to Bermudj and his conception of god, not your own, thanks.

What kind a sick god would give that pain in the hope that I would love him again?

god is there all the time, god did not give you the pain in the hope you would love him again? The cancer took place because either you were not careful or it caught you unaware.

Additionally if that god's claim to be omniscient, then he must already know his plan to make me love him will not work. I can only conclude that either god does not exist or his character is such that I could never love such a things as him.

Well the kind of personal god i believe in is one which has a little bit more foresight than you, but not one which has a long term plan.

god is there all the time, god did not give you the pain in the hope you would love him again? The cancer took place because either you were not careful or it caught you unaware.


Well the kind of personal god i believe in is one which has a little bit more foresight than you, but not one which has a long term plan.

If god is all powerful and all present and so on, then he gave me cancer, or did not bother to prevent it. Any way you asked if I asked him to end it for me. That is ridiculous. If he did not prevent me getting cancer then how would he have the power to stop it because I asked. I did not catch it unawares. If you are not going to take me seriously then its point less continuing.

I think it is time for you to question your assumption about the existence of this thing you call god.

If god is all powerful and all present and so on, then he gave me cancer, or did not bother to prevent it. Any way you asked if I asked him to end it for me. That is ridiculous. If he did not prevent me getting cancer then how would he have the power to stop it because I asked. I did not catch it unawares. If you are not going to take me seriously then its point less continuing.

I do take you very seriously.

I never think that god gave me Bipolar-I. Bipolar-I caught me unawares, but now that I am aware I have a propensity to it, I have taken measures so it never affects me again. I take no medication whatsoever. And god did not cure the Bipolar-I for me either. So in the same way I do not think god gave you cancer. You have gone through the cancer problems, I assume you have done much research into the field, and you now take the necessary steps so as to minimize the risk of the illness triggering on you again. god will not do that for you either.

Actually an answer I was going to give you was given that I am 100% sure on the fact that the body looks for security, and I need to secure my body, then at this moment I have changed from a theist to a deist.

You could probably would consider such an answer a mockery to your question. But it is not.

Aware that all of these issues of life are incredibly inconclusive I am using them when necessary as a way of protecting myself, and I am well aware that I am doing this.

What tends to happen from what I have observed is that the body will do this and the individual is unaware of it in which case it is then no good.

I think it is time for you to question your assumption about the existence of this thing you call god.

You have no idea how much I question it, how much I am trying to work what this god is like, how we can communicate with this god and how it interferes with our lives and so on. The obsession in me, never stops.

I think it is time for you to question your assumption about the existence of this thing you call god.

Baruchspinoza, Likewise for you.

What I find ironic is... Atheists are as obsessed, if not more obsessed with THEIST's definition of God as Theists are. It's also ironic that anybody could claim to know for sure that there is no Creator of this Universe, when this universe exists & we are living evidence! God is another way of saying something you worship, a passion, an obsession - whatever is most important to you. Everybody believes in something that is most important to them.

Forget Theology. Forget Atheology. What beliefs will work for you? This is not just philosophy - this is going to affect your health. What beliefs are going to bring peace, motivation, a sense of belonging... & all of the other feelings you crave?

I'm not saying to diss logic completely. But the fact is that we don't know all the facts. Infact, we are more ignor-ant than we are knowledgable. So, if we're going to be somewhat illusional anyway, with subjectively limited beliefs, why not make them work FOR us, rather than against us?

Newme we shouldn't believe in only things that work for us, that's how we got in this spiritual mess in the first place. By people not evolving their perspective of reality, due to them being comfortable in the environment that they are in especially at the expense of others. And to say the Gods created us and therefor they must be present to help us, is a far reaching claim. And that's what most Theist have been doing, due to the lack of wanting to search and understand reality.

Deism believes in an afterlife, believe in gods (plural), but those Gods can not influence within the physical and mental worlds. That would defy the purpose of ourselves being tested, if it was different we would say " God must had a hand in it", instead of finding the true reason (cause and effect).

Sometimes when people see the true reason and it contradicts their view or "righteous" notions, they dismiss it and stick with the old. Which does harm to themselves and society.

Newme we shouldn't believe in only things that work for us, that's how we got in this spiritual mess in the first place. By people not evolving their perspective of reality, due to them being comfortable in the environment that they are in especially at the expense of others. And to say the Gods created us and therefor they must be present to help us, is a far reaching claim. And that's what most Theist have been doing, due to the lack of wanting to search and understand reality.

Deism believes in an afterlife, believe in gods (plural), but those Gods can not influence within the physical and mental worlds. That would defy the purpose of ourselves being tested, if it was different we would say " God must had a hand in it", instead of finding the true reason (cause and effect).

Sometimes when people see the true reason and it contradicts their view or "righteous" notions, they dismiss it and stick with the old. Which does harm to themselves and society.

Care to give some examples?